Here's a bad review:


source. Also saw on youtube airflow is super minimal on the device. And looks hard to clean. I wouldn't risk it.

So far electric heat conduction devices seem to work, just not yet money proof enough for DMT. Are there any hot air convection devices with a modbox connection?

I made some extensive tests last evening (but again not with DMT, but I think most is also applicable for DMT).

I discovered a few things.

E.g. I thought that a very good setup would be to use a TC heating plate (my magnetic stirrer hot plate), where one can sprinkle the substance over a wide surface and so it should instantly evaporate. I added a metal tube with a diameter a bit smaller than the heating plate and a glass funnel on top, to see the vapor production. I planned, on letting everything evaporate, and then inhale the content.

But boy, was I wrong. There was very little vapor production, but most substance repeatedly just got burnt. But, e.g. when I blew on the plate surface, a crazy vapor production was the result.

It really seems this thin vapor layer above the substance is the culprit. The air there is saturated with vapor and so no more substance can evaporate. And by itself, it only moves very slowly (only due to air convection induced by heat differences).

So the most important factor is probably to consistently get rid of this surface vapor layer, as it prevents any further evaporation, although the substance is way hot enough. And exactly if the substance is that hot and cannot evaporate, it will burn (experience based on my tests).
My hypothesis would be, that if the hot substance is not exposed to the air, it's not such a big problem. If it is exposed to the air and can evaporate, the substance surface layer will immediately cool down due to this. If it is exposed to the air, and cannot evaporate it will remain hot and react with the air oxygen...

So in this relation the "ceramic sponge" on the GVG is good, as it increases drastically the surface, and by drawing in constantly fresh air, you get a high vapor production in a short amount of time.

I also realized, that with the heat and dump method on the QQ, you can draw very fast, and still vapor production keeps up (it has a big thermal mass, as well as enough power). IMHO the reason is as stated above. Actually if you do not draw fast, the substance will burn. The problem is here a bit, that the evaporation surface is very small. So to compensate this, a lot of air has to pass by this surface. The problem here is, that you only have a certain amount of breathing volume. So this limits the maximum amount you can evaporate in one draw. And if you have to wait for the second draw (keep it in your lungs for some time), substance will get burnt...

I basically found two solutions for this:

If you need to take more substance than you can draw in one rip, then split the substance in the number of rips you need, and while you exhale from your previous rip, dump the material for the next rip (while the QQ remains the whole time on the set temp). Like that almost no substance gets burnt. As said, I have a rubber hose with an attached aluminum tube on my QQ mouthpiece. The rubber hose has a big hole in the side above the mouthpiece. Like that you can easily dump more substance,and then close the hole with a finger.

The other solution I came up with, is a bit more complex and not really portable. I basically made a piston device, where on the bottom you can stick through the QQ (without the mouthpiece). Then there's an air pump installed which blows air fast (adjustable) in a narrow stream into the cup (to blow away the surface vapor layer). By doing this you can get a really crazy vapor production with the QQ, and even with bigger amounts of substance, all substance gets evaporated pretty quickly. Then when the whole device is filled with the vapor, and all has evaporated, I push one side of the cylinder (the other side than the QQ) down. In this plate that gets pushed down (which I made of transparent acryl) is the aluminum tube installed (which also serves as a handle), and so the vapor gets pressed out through this tube.On the other side of the tube I have a rubber hose attached as flexible mouthpiece. The only problem with this version of this design is that I cannot push the piston completely down, as the QQ is in the way...I would probably have to have an indent there, with the size of the QQ. But as I just used what was lying around, I ended up with this version. So when I finished pushing down the piston, I basically still had to draw, to suck in the remaining vapor. But as this was only a small remaining volume, it wasn't a big deal.

This device is still a killer. But as said, everything else but portable (or practical in its current version)...

The reason why I made a piston device was, that I realized with my bong tube like setup, that if you have such a bigger container of vapor, and you just draw the air out of it, you will need several times the volume of air of this container, until most vapor is out of it, and still then, some is still lingering around. Whereas with a piston, you really only have to inhale this amount of air. By setting the initial piston position you can also adjust the container size to your breathing volume. But always remember that if you drew in all vapor you still have to be able to draw in clean air, as otherwise all the vapor in your mouth and windpipe is wasted.

Theoretically one could also use an inert gas in the piston, to constrain any further oxidation, e.g. like it is done with the famous 5-MeO-DMT piston device.

I think it could even work on the fly (so with a portable device). For as I experienced, if one blows a narrow pressure stream of air into the cup, the vapor production explodes. So maybe one could just have an air pump blowing into the cup, and then one draws directly, without any vapor storage container. But if this really works, I would have to test. And as mentioned, none of these tests were made with DMT, so it remains uncertain what it also applicable for DMT.




Honestly IMHO 5-MeO-DMT is really not a problem. I can already vape it fine with only my MBT. Reasons? IMHO you only need to evaporate a small amount of substance (15mg max), that it has only a small recondensation potential, and is additionally pretty heat stable and hard to burn.

BTW:
I could imagine a device, similar to the GVG, but with cold air. E.g. If one would have a metal sponge in a form, so that one could directly put current through it, it would heat the metal sponge (used like a coil). Now you could just draw cold air through it, and it should work. You would basically get a conduction heated device, with a huge surface, and by constantly drawing air through it, the problematic vapor layer should be no concern (basically like with the GVG). But you would probably need quite a lot of power, as the air cools the sponge and the sponge probably hasn't much heat capacity (thermal mass).

@Aum_Shanti
I look forward to seeing what comes out of your testing. That piston one sounds akin to a third lung device, or gravity bong. Where it does all the big scale air transfering or breathing! and then you just inhale all the goods.

Hopefully one will still be able to put the device down after that

Lol, my crude construction anyways was too big to hold in your hands, while operating...

But a short question, as I would have an idea for a customized cup with integrated airways for the QQ:
Anybody knows a material, which is a good thermal insulator, easily cleanable, temperature resistant (to about at least 400C), and easily machinable (e.g. on a lathe)?

Unfortunately I have to report, that it seems the QQ doesn't work properly in TC mode.

It slowly increases temp over time, when it reached the indicated temp.

I got suspicious, as I started to realize, that for longer draws or consecutive draws, substance always started to burn. Something that never happened before with my MBT.

E.g. if I set it to 100C, it increases to 110C...120C...130C...140C...etc.

I now opened a thread about it on reddit. Maybe someone can find a fix for this (maybe other coils?)

Just received the Motar.

And it really doesn't work in TC mode, as the coil doesn't change its resistance at all.

I'm a bit disappointed in how it was made. I really like the glass cup, but the heating is just a small coil below. That means a small part of this cup gets the full heat.
And what is IMHO especially questionable design wise, is the fact, that exactly where the coil is in the middle, there is no indent, for the material to flow to, but instead a little hill, so that the substance flows into the corner of the glass, away from the coil, where it never gets evaporated.

And as they really just used a wire for heating (and not a special element, like in the MBT), they IMHO could as well haven taken a wire, where TC would be possible. I'm wondering if it is possible to take it apart and change the wire...

BTW:

* The mouthpiece is not compatible with the QQ or MBT (bigger diameter).

* Base resistance 0.39Ohm

So assuming no voltage drop, due to internal battery resistance (which is not realistic), the values would be as following:

freshly charged battery (4.2V) -> 10.77A -> 45W
Normal bat voltage (3.7V) -> 9.49A -> 35W

So with a one battery mod, already getting 35W would probably only be possible for a short time with a freshly charged battery.

Also just got the Motar. Disappointed in the design too. Why make the heating coil only in the middle of the cup? Anyway I have seen several very good reports on it working good with DMT so I'll give it a go..

Is it also higher in the cup, at the point where the coil is? IMHO that's by far the worst design flaw.

IMHO it seems like they add a blob of hot glass with the wire in it to a prefabricated glass cup, and so I could imagine there being manufacturing differences. That's IMHO probably also the reason the coil is only in the middle and why not TC-wire gets used.

BTW: Not much news on the QQ front. It seems Matt is on the position, that the QQ is not made to be used for long consecutive draws.

BTW: What do you think about the "D coil" (or "F-Coil", but the D is rated for much more power) for the Bald 3 with the dab rig? Seems, like it could work, but didn't found any yet on the "el cheapo" sites selling it.

But by searching for it, I discovered that they sell now the Mr Bald T for $9 incl shipping...(that's just dirt cheap)

Yes, it's not a very good design that it's lifted in the middle..

D-coil seems interesting...

I got the Yocan Evolve Plus.. For DMT it works pretty good! It leaves some residue but very little. Easy to use. Only tried with the dual quartz coil. Will probably get some donut coils for it also..

Can you please please describe how is the airpath for the Yocan as it is nowhere described!!!
Maybe a drawing would help.



Well the D or rather the F coil looks exactly like the Yocan dual quartz cup to me.

a note about the Yocan line of pens:

if you are interested, the Evolve XL has an adjustable airflow ring; plus it has a 4 coil atomizer. it looks like a beast; i have one but have not tried yet; will update when i have an experience to report.

...

Aum_Shanti, the Yocan has exposed coils so the airflow just travels through the chamber..

What do you mean by exposed coils? I thought they don't get in contact with the material, so similar to e.g. the QQ or the D&F coils of the Bald 3.

Or is it like the Bald 3 "E coil"?


And where does the air get in,and where out, as this is IMHO a very important point for a cup atomizer?

The airflow travels through the 4 tiny holes where the wires come out of in the QDC. Looking at youtube the device can't be cleaned. Risk of hole blockage by plant oil residue exists. Thats why I have some doubt and questions about this device:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=892548#post892548

Has anyone used this device more that say 5-10 times? Personally I doubt that. Of course I hope it works, but there is no proof for me yet. Open for answers /comments /remarks.


In regard to airflow control this sounds like the better option.

Aum, yea it's not a cup style..

@some one:

I have 6 questions:

1) How many times have you used the device?
-2.

2) Is there a builup of non-dmt plant oil residue?
-Yes, only very little though.

3) Can you easily clean the device?
-Yes. Remove coil and put some iso in it and shake it - soak it if need be.

4) If you''ve used the device +10 times, is the smoke harsher due to the residue?
-

5) How good is the air flow? If you exhale all air, and inhale the device (while off), how many seconds does it take to fill your lungs? Eg. if it takes 40-50 seconds to do one inhalation, it means the airflow is very tight, like inhaling through a small straw. Not everyone might like this.
-Airflow is a bit tight but it's not really a problem since there's enough not having to pull for so long it's awkward

6) How many seconds do you do your one and only inhalation to get all dmt in?
Not many. Only tried with 20 mg so far.

I (allegedly) have 13 trips combined between my evolve plus and evolve plus XL, most if them breakthroughs. All breakthrough were on less than a full hit, probably about half a hit. The evolve stays on for 15 seconds but is probably clear in 10. The XL only stays on for 10 seconds but clears 25 mg in that time easy, which is a full breakthrough dose for me. Both the plus and the plus xl work about the same for me. It works 100% as well as ETERNAL says. My technique is a little different from his in that I don't pulse the button, I just hold it down and rip hard for the full time and I have not found I burn the spice.

They cost less than $25 and replacement coils are less than $5, though I haven't had to replace one yet. The coils clean way easier than cleaning a GVG. I have two GVGs, loved them and I broke through regularly with them, but the evolves make it considerably more simple. No messing around with the torch and it's WAY, WAY easier to coach friends with.

Should you get one? No, buy my GVGs, for sale half price.

Nice Kable

Many people are actually crying over their dethroned GVG's. Not in bright daylight. During that time they will say things like: "The GVG is the BEST 'smoking' device there is period - nothing will ever beat it". But during the night when the subconscious mind takes over, they start to unwillingly recognize the defeat and start to weep tears of sorrow and anguish in their sleep. When they wake up they feel something's wrong but will not succumb to the notion that the new machines have taken over and made their beloved apparatus redundant. I have seen a few support groups being established on this basis. Kable, you seem like one of the few that quickly has tackled this emotionally in a very mature way although owning two GVG's! I'm quite impressed.

Ok I'm convinced. Will get me a yocan evolve plus soon