Yes they will block the nausea from mushrooms, cactus/mescaline, HBWR/morning glories/LSA/etc., oral bufotenine, and even ayahuasca somewhat (but apparently not the actual purge, according to some people).

All of those psychedelics (except ayahuasca because of the caapi in it) produce nausea by the same mechanism in the body. Ayahuasca contains caapi which has harmala alkaloids. I'm not sure if Datura stromonium is effective at blocking the nausea caused by harmala alkaloids because their nausea is more related to motion sickness, so I believe Datura inoxia would work better at blocking the nausea caused by harmala alkaloids because Datura inoxia seeds contain nearly pure scopolamine rather than hyoscyamine.

Scopolamine is not good at blocking the nausea from psychedelics, but hyoscyamine is. However, scopolamine is good at blocking nausea caused by motion sickness, while hyoscyamine is not. Because harmala alkaloid nausea is very similar to motion sickness nausea and even includes dizziness, I believe the scopolamine in Datura inoxia would be your best bet at blocking the nausea from Ayahuasca.

Maybe take both?

Hyoscyamine is hooking it up... potentiating effects AND blocking nausea... love it. Seeds should come in Monday

its all a synergistic symphony, bro

I am reading up on scientific litterature on the Daturas, and I found this crucial point about Datura stramonium I thought I should share:

"The ratio between the various tropane alkaloids varies over the lifetime of an individual plant. For
example, it has been reported that in very young D. stramonium plants scopolamine normally
dominates, but at the stage of flowering the hyoscyamine content increases while the relative
scopolamine content decreases gradually (Demeyer and Dejaegere, 1989)."

In other words, only older Datura stramonium plants will have the desired effects!

Keep in mind that this information doesn't relate to the seeds at all. The seeds are always high in hyoscyamine. The rest of the plant varies widely and that’s the reason it’s much better to use the seeds. I'd stay away from anything other than the seeds. The seeds have the most consistent alkaloid mix and potency of the entire plant. SWIM has found most of the seeds have about 4% alkaloids and all the seeds he’s ever had are high in hyoscyamine with very little scopolamine.

Sadly I have to disagree completely, and I must say I find it sad that you come with such allegations without any reference. I have found test results indicating roughly a 50:50 ratio of scopolamine and hyoscyamine in young Datura stramonium plants, both for the seeds and the other epigeal parts. In one test, the average ratio was 47.2 % scopolamine and 52.8 % hyoscyamine for green stems, 50.4 % scopolamine and 49.6 % hyoscyamine for purple stems, 51.3 % scopolamine and 48.7 % hyoscyamine for seeds. In other words, this test shows young plants that on avegare actually had a slightly higher scopolamine content in the seeds than the stems!

There seems to be no significant difference in the ratio of alkaloids in the epigeal parts (seeds, flowers, stems, leaves) of Datura stramonium, but there are a significant difference when compared to the roots. This is not surprising, as it is in the roots the biosynthesis takes place. It is, however, correct that the seeds is the part with the least variation in total alkaloid content.

The data are attached, and there you can find all the numbers (taken from different authors from different countries) I am talking about. At the end of the article, you can see several other test results from several other Datura stramonium plants. In these tests, the scopolamine content in Datura stramonium seeds varies from < 1 % to 62.3 %.

Therefore, only older plants will have the desired effects! Young plants will still have some effect, but not nearly as good as you want. This is also the case for other Daturas, every member of the family has higher scopolamine content when young. As an example, Datura ferox has up to 99 % scopolamine as young plants, but 75 % is typical for older plants.

I repeat myself again - use only older plants! Seeds from young plants typically have from 40 to 60 % scopolamine! This decreases over age, until reaching < 1 % to 10 % scopolamine.

Brugmansia and Datura are basically the only two baneful botanicals I would ever use.

SWIM never had such seeds from D. stramonium that were high in scopolamine. Never. Scopolamine has a very distinct effect and you'd feel it if it contain that much in the seeds.

SWIM has been using D. stramonium seeds for over 20 years. He’s speaking from experience, not just some report somewhere.

This is not "just some report from somewhere", this is a study from European Food Safety Authority published in 2008. A study that collects around 20 analysis of several Datura stramonium plants from several different authors from several different countries, ranging in publishing date from 1979 to 2006 - that all points to the same conclusion. You can read it for yourself, I attached it in my previous post.

Young Datura stramonium plants have roughly a 50:50 ratio of scopolamine and hyoscyamine, even in the seeds, that is a fact. A fact you can not simply dismiss with personal experience. You have perhaps only been using seeds from old plants? It is not likely that seeds from young plants are commonly available.

I've read that report and hundreds of other reports showing different numbers.

Don’t put so much faith in one report.

Do more research and you'll have a very different view of that report.

Well, until you can prove it with something different than personal experience, my conclusion stands. It is also important to note that this is not just one report, it is a collection of around 20 reports. What I write here is not to sound harsh or anything, but it is important that when we deal with scientific subjects, we stay scientific. There is nothing scientific with personal experience and allegations that you have read something else, when it is not backed up with actual numbers.

You can't stand that I don't agree. That’s fine.

I've read hundreds of reports from different places and none of them have the same results. The reason you don’t believe me is because you didn’t do as much research as I have. It highly depends on the location and strain of the plants tested. There are some strains that might be higher in scopolamine than others, but in general the seeds are higher in hyoscyamine than scopolamine, and most reports show that, and so does SWIM's personal experience with using the seeds for a very long time.

Sure you might find some odd variety somewhere that goes beyond the norm and shows up in one of those tests, that means very little to me. It’s like the Cebil seeds containing 12.5% bufotenine. Sure that exists, but most people get Cebil with 1-2% bufotenine. That 12.5% was a freak. SWIM has never come across seeds high in scopolamine from Datura stramonium. Never.

SWIM knows the effects of scopolamine very well now, in over 20 years of using these seeds SWIM has not once had seeds high in scopolamine. But SWIM doesn’t use seeds that were taken out of the pods before they are ready. No one does. If that test is using seeds that aren’t ready then it would mean nothing at all to SWIM. No one uses seeds that are not ready. I never heard of any place selling such seeds.

White seeds are sometimes high in scopolamine (SWIM never had one that was though), but no one uses white Datura stramonium seeds. It's almost impossible to buy white seeds. When the seeds are black they are ready for sale. It’s very rare to see a white seed on the market. In the many years SWIM has used Datura stramonium seeds, 99% of them have been black seeds. This is what you get when you buy the seeds. People don't sale the white seeds because the black seeds are larger and worth more money.

The black seeds, even immature black seeds, which are basically the only seeds you can buy are never high in scopolamine, unless you have a freak of nature.

I can completely stand that you don't agree! I have no problem with that whatsoever. What I can't stand, is that you don't show one single evidence pointing towards your theory, while still trying to convince the general public that you are correct! It is completely meaningless to discuss any scientific subject if one does not point to hard scientific evidence. I find it totally ridiculus to demand that the other part in a discussion should prove your own theory!

Now, here are some hard scientific evidence pointing out that both the Godronii, Stramonium, Inermis and Tatula variants of Datura stramonium have a highly variable scopolamine and hyoscyamine content. All data are from the seeds.

Unknown variation from South Africa: 51.3% scopolamine, 48.7% hyoscyamine (Naudé, 2007)
Unknown variation from Russia: 20.5% scopolamine, 72.5% hyoscyamine (Mirzamatov & Lutfullin, 1986)
Var. godronii from Poland: 48% scopolamine, 52% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)
Var. godronii from greenhouse in Bulgaria: 16% scopolamine, 69.6% hyoscyamine (Berkov, 2006)
Var. godronii, unknown location: 12% scopolamine, 88% hyoscyamine (Bucher, 1989)
Var. inermis, unknown location: 31-41% scopolamine, 59-69% hyoscyamine (Bucher, 1989)
Var. stramonium, unknown location: 6-35% scopolamine, 65-94% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)
Var. stramonium from Poland: 62.3% scopolamine, 37.7% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)
Var. stramonium from Bulgaria: 36% scopolamine, 55.5% hyoscyamine (Berkov, 2006)
Var. tatula from greenhouse in Bulgaria: 39-47% scopolamine, 53-61% hyoscyamine (Bucher, 1989)
Var. tatula from greenhouse in Bulgaria: 18.1% scopolamine, 50.4% hyoscyamine (Berkov, 2006)
Var. tatula from Poland: 42.3% scopolamine, 57.7% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)
Var. tatula, unknown location: 47% scopolamine, 53% hyoscyamine (Bucher & Meszaros, 1989)

Of course the alkaloid contents also varies according to growing sites and several other factors. I have never disputed that. With the exception of the first example, the age of the plants are not known (the first example is a young plant (Naudé, 2007)). Therefore one can not be sure that the seeds high in scopolamine are in fact from young plants. It is, however, proven that scopolamine normally dominates in young plants, while hyoscyamine takes over more and more as the plant ages (Demeyer and Dejaegere, 1989 and Naudé, 2007). It is therefore safe to assume that the seeds with roughly a 50:50 ratio are indeed from young plants.

This is now proven to be completely false. The scopolamine content is found to vary from < 1% (Duez, 1985) to 62.3% (Mroczek, 2006), which means the hyoscyamine content varies accordingly! You make it sound like I am talking about one or two freak incidents, when I am in fact talking about a general trend proven by several scientists, only disputed by your own alleged personal experience.

I do frankly not care about your personal experiences. All I am saying is that seeds from young plants have a higher scopolamine content, not that YOUR seeds have a high scopolamine content! I have already stated that seeds from young plants is not likely to be on the market. Until you can prove your wild hypothesis with something more than pretty words, my conclusion will stand. I hear you talking about houndreds of reports, but I can't see one single reference.

Nice job finding some very obscure studies. I knew you were going to do that.

I know you had a hard time finding those studies. Look at the sources: Bulgaria, South Africa, Poland, etc. Not a single American study was sited. Those are some really obscure studies and I know you picked them on purpose to slant the numbers in your favor.

They are most likely testing white seeds where they got seeds high in scopolamine, which you can’t get on the market. Like I said some white seeds are high in scopolamine, but people don’t sale white seeds.

Also, who buys Datura stramonium from Bulgaria, South Africa and Poland? I sure don't. The seeds I get are grown in the USA.

Come on...dig up some obscure American studies now...I'm waiting to see them now...this is fun.

Ah, the studies are obscure because they are not from the USA? What kind of ignorant statement is that? Do your racism really go as far as to include plants? Plants are inferior if they are not grown in the states? This is getting more and more ridiculus...

As you can see from the numbers, no matter what growing conditions (hot country (South Africa), cold countries (Poland, Bulgaria) or greenhouse) or no matter the variant of Datura stramonium (Godronii, Stramonium, Inermis or Tatula), the scopolamine content varies A LOT!

To your information, every one of these studies was found in the article from EFSA I attached. You know, the one you bragged about having read? And no, I did not slant the numbers in my favor, I included every single study of seeds in the article that stated both scopolamine and hyoscyamine levels. To your information, the studies from the USA in that article did not even state the hyoscyamine content.

I have never said that the seeds you normally buy are not high in hyoscyamine. In fact, they have from < 1% to 10% scopolamine content (which usually means from 90% to > 99% hyoscyamine), as they are from older plants. What I have said, is that younger plants have roughly 50 % scopolamine, something we that grow our own ethnobotanicals should keep in mind! And that is all it was, a friendly advise to the fellow botanists in here!

I have nothing to gain to have right, I just want the public to know what is facts and what is myths. I would be happy if you could provide some conflicting studies, but to this date you have not provided ONE SINGLE reference. Let me repeat that, I would be more than happy to see some research supporting your hypothesis!

Even those obscure tests show the seeds are high in hyoscyamine and not scopolamine. If the tests were only of black seeds, the ones available on the market, you’ll find they are always high in hyoscyamine.

Look at your own obscure data:

Unknown variation from Russia: 20.5% scopolamine, 72.5% hyoscyamine (Mirzamatov & Lutfullin, 1986)
Var. godronii from Poland: 48% scopolamine, 52% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)
Var. godronii from greenhouse in Bulgaria: 16% scopolamine, 69.6% hyoscyamine (Berkov, 2006)
Var. godronii, unknown location: 12% scopolamine, 88% hyoscyamine (Bucher, 1989)
Var. inermis, unknown location: 31-41% scopolamine, 59-69% hyoscyamine (Bucher, 1989)
Var. stramonium, unknown location: 6-35% scopolamine, 65-94% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)
Var. stramonium from Bulgaria: 36% scopolamine, 55.5% hyoscyamine (Berkov, 2006)
Var. tatula from greenhouse in Bulgaria: 39-47% scopolamine, 53-61% hyoscyamine (Bucher, 1989)
Var. tatula from greenhouse in Bulgaria: 18.1% scopolamine, 50.4% hyoscyamine (Berkov, 2006)
Var. tatula from Poland: 42.3% scopolamine, 57.7% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)
Var. tatula, unknown location: 47% scopolamine, 53% hyoscyamine (Bucher & Meszaros, 1989)

Those all show hyoscyamine to be the major alkaloid. Of the 13 tests you outlined, 11 show I’m right.

Only these two show seeds high in scopolamine, one is an unknown variant, but in these cases they still contain a substantial amount of hyoscyamine. I am sure these are white seeds which you can’t buy:

Unknown variation from South Africa: 51.3% scopolamine, 48.7% hyoscyamine (Naudé, 2007)
Var. stramonium from Poland: 62.3% scopolamine, 37.7% hyoscyamine (Mroczek, 2006)

Look, I've only been talking about black seeds. Did you ever hear me talk about taking white seeds that are not ready to be used? Not once did I ever mention anything about using white seeds.

I know some white seeds are high in scopolamine. This is a well known fact. If you harvest the seed pods before the seeds are ready to be harvested, they are white. That’s not a proper seed.

That’s like telling me applies taste terrible because you picked the apple before it was ready to be picked while I’m telling you apples are sweet because I only eat apples that are ripe.

You can get studies that show that apples contain almost no fructose. Of course those are of applies that are not ripe. Such a study means nothing to the general public who only eats ripe apples.

The same applies to the studies done on the seeds. If the study includes white seeds that are not properly formed seeds, then the study is of little meaning to me.

If people are opening seed pods themselves when they are not ripe, and ingesting white seeds, that’s a whole different subject altogether. No where in any of the talks I’ve had about Datura stramonium seeds did I ever mention anything about using seeds that are not ripe.

When the seed pods open on their own, that’s when the seeds are ready for use. And they are black, and always high in hyoscyamine. If you are breaking the seed pods open yourself before they are ready and you are ingesting seeds that are not fully developed, then none of what I've been talking about applies at all. That’s not a fully developed seed.

The dosage and alkaloid profile of a white seed is different from a ripe black seed. SWIM has never used a white seed, and never saw them being sold anywhere.

Now the black seeds have nothing to do with the maturity of the plant. Whether it’s a black seed from a plant that’s about to die, or the first black seed made by the plant, the black seeds are always high in hyoscyamine. So if you wait for the seed pods to open and harvest your seeds at that time when the seeds are ready to be harvested, you’ll get black seeds that are high in hyoscyamine, and what I said applies.

You make this sound like we have a fight: scopolamine team with Evening Glory versus hyoscyamine team with 69ron! Your argument style is so ridiculus, you do in fact use Ad hominem all the time, with the only intention to decieve the general public to believe you are right. Please, can you show some scientific support for all your claims? Is that really so much to ask for?

My intention is only to bring up (what I regard as) the fact that young seeds does have higher scopolamine content than seeds from older plants. This is only to help the public, it is not an attack on you. Seriously ron, don't you see that your argument style is close to absurd?

What I did with the numbers, was to prove your statement "the seeds are always high in hyoscyamine" to be completely false. 13 out of 13 tests show that to be false. I have repeatedly stated that scopolamine often is found in aroundt 50%, and as you see from the numbers, also often found from 20-40% and sometimes even greater than 50%. Again, my intention is only to show that scopolamine are in fact found in MUCH larger numbers than the 4-19% you operate with! Even if hyoscyamine is the major alkaloid in many of the tests, I am only pointing out that scopolamine often is found in large amounts, something you have repeatedly disputed! I have now proven this, it is your job to debunk it if you want to prove it is wrong.

Now, for the white seeds versus black seeds. This is very interesting! I have no information on the color of the seeds from these studies, so this is definitely worth taking up! You do, however, again twist the facts in your direction, trying to make it sound like these tests show white seeds. When in fact, it is not known what kind of seeds it is tested, and when you also have not proven that white seeds in fact are higher in scopolamine than black seeds. If you can provide some scientific litterature that prove your statement about white seeds, it would be extremely nice. I have repeatedly asked for this now, in perhaps 10 posts, but all I can get back are more statements without any proof whatsoever.

Is it really too much to ask for that one backs up his or hers statements with facts? I have kept on asking about this in every post in this discussion, yet I have not seen one single reference or even a hint in a direction I can find something that support your claims.