I have a question about pulling but can't seem to find any answers using the search feature. The question I have is regarding Cybs Max Ion tek (or Hybrid ATB, both are very similar).

When it comes to adding the NPS, do you add 50mL and shake and then add 50mL two more times and shake each time before pulling the total 150mL of solvent from the solution or should you pull after each addition and shaking (after letting it settle of course)? The pic in his hybrid tek looks as if there is only 50mL of solvent in there.

The tek is unclear and there doesn't seem to be any information related to this in the forum post accompanying it...not that I can post in there yet anyway.

Thanks in advance!

Pull each pull seperately

I am on my very first STB extraction (Nomans tek).

Yesterday i have prepared a basic solution with MHRB: 66g MHRB/66g lye/1l water. i had mixed/shaked the solution several hours then in the evening i added around 50ml of NPS then turned, rolled around occassionally a few times. then a few times in the morning then pulled off the NPS with pipette. I did a sodium carbonate wash ( heated sodium bicarbonate 1,5h at 200C- it has lost weight and consistence changed so i assume it became sodium carbonate-so i added this 3,5g sodium carbonate to 100ml water) on the NPS with DMT in it, discarded the water. now i have in my collection jar around 50ml of NPS ready for precipitation. however it is not cloudy at all so i am now trying to evaporate before. It has yellow colour but no cloudy like.
I am just wondering now whether it is good or not because 50ml of NPS seems to be so tiny amount. If i pour it on the dish to put in the freezer the layer will be so thin.

My question would be is it OK to pour 50ml of NPS onto a big surface area so there will be thin layer on the dish or i have to get a smaller dish then the layer will be thicker for precipitation? I dont know if one or the second option is better.

Also if you could komment on the cloudyness, i would appreciate.At how many ml can i expect getting it cloudy if i had used 66g MHRB (material is good quality for sure)

Thank you very much

tracid1987 - I hope you've kept your sodium carbonate wash water, just in case... Many people consider this part of the process unnecessary (especially if you've taken good care to ensure none of the dark, basic sludge has been picked up along with the NPS) and it is known to be a significant source of yield losses on occasion.

A wide dish is simply easier to scrape from, but there's no reason not to freeze precipitate in a lon, thin tube like a test tube. After draining out the NPS, the goods can be retrieved by dissolving the crystals in acetone or ethanol and allowing it to evaporate on a wide dish. (1mL of 90% ethanol easily dissolves at least 400mg of DMT freebase.)

This process ensures the removal of any traces of (volatile) NPS from the product, although it won't be as crystalline when recovered this way.

Cloudiness is not necessarily a prerequisite to the chilling process, especially if the weather is particularly warm; it's good practice to place your precipitation container into the refrigerator first - at which point clouding may become apparent - before transferring it to the (as cold as possible) freezer to complete the precipitation.

That said, 50mL NPS is a pretty generous amount for 66g MHRB. How warm did you do your NPS pulls?

downwardsfromzero - thank you for your reply.

Yes i have kept the sodium carbonate wash water- how do i retrieve DMT from it? by mini A/B? i just dont understand why this method is mentioned or not edited if it can cause loss of yield- i didnt read it anywhere. thank you for mentioning. I believe the NPS was not as clear yellow before sodium carbonate wash as after so something might happened to it. But i am also sure that no lye solution got into the NPS before as well. So dont know.... Then i also feel like the recrystallizing is also unnecessary if one gets nice crystals since recrystallization causes further loss of yield. Its a bit unclear to me at this moment.

I have pulled at room temperature. maybe its a bit warmer cause its summer... okay i have just poured off the NPS (was in freezer since yesterday evening-almost a full day). I didnt open the jar fully just the corner to pour off the NPS then put back in the freezer as quick as possible- so i dint make observation much but i have seen some white particles on the bottom of jar and also at some places yellow ones. I have put the lid back on and turned upside down to allow the NPS to drop off as suggested on the forum here. So i wait a few hours then see whats going on there- will scrape off then dry naturally....


EDIT: i have done the second pull. The NPS is very puddly (i hope i used the correct english word for it. I mean it is not clear yellow but puddly, consistent cloud) and as i pipetted off the NPS into the collection jar i started to see immediately white particles on the bottom of collection jar, here is the pic https://ibb.co/e0kXoT .Is it alredy precipitating because of the concentration? I have put it into the freezer.

Also i can remember that at first pull the NPS was puddly yellow too (without white particles) but after sodium carbonate wash it became clear yellow ( pic taken after pouring off after precipitation, but looks the same https://ibb.co/iKok8T )

So which version is more promising? I dont know what is the difference- do i have to sodium carbonate wash the puddly yellow NPS to get clear yellow NPS or not. Opinion of an experienced extractor would be appreciated.

BTW i am still waiting with the precipitation of the first pull.

Sounds like it's going well, especially without the carbonate wash

"Puddly" is an exceedingly rare word in English usage. Looking at the context now, it seems you mean "cloudy", or, more technically, "turbid".

So, yes it is precipitating because of the concentration. Your basic soup has had more time to break down the cell walls so there is more alkaloid available mow.

In the first instance, your sodium carbonate wash seems to have taken the already precipitated alkaloid with it, so proceed without the wash!


Just dump it back into the main soup and pull again using the naphtha poured off the first pull. That gets you pretty much back to square one for that pull.

Best of luck!

Sometimes i have to use translator

Thats good news its enough to dump it back as it is. I may do it by the very last pull, couldnt the sodium carbonate water harm my consecutive pulls as did it before?

Thank you very much for your help

You're doing very well with your English! And now I know what to look for if I have to translate "turbid" into Slovak (My partner actually learnt some Slovak once. It's pretty tricky.)

The sodium carbonate water washed out some of the particulates which may have been crystals of DMT. Once the wash has been returned to the original bark soup it will have a minimal effect on the pH and the DMT will be pulled back into the next batch of NPS. You could add an extra spoonful of caustic soda just as a precaution.

Sorry to bother you but i have ran into a problem now: my third pull was very dark brown so i decided to do a mini A/b as suggested here https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=57997

When i shaked the vinegar with the NPS i think emulsion has created,after waiting for a while the bottom become very turbid, but in the NPS two layers have appeared, bottom NPS layer dense white particles, upper NPS layer moderately turbid. https://ibb.co/jO6kv8

this is how the NPS with the white particles looks like https://ibb.co/mMweNo
What is that dense white layer and why are there three layers?
That dense white stuff in the NPS looks like melted powdery sugar. Whats that?

i will try to make two more mixes of NPS with vinegar then basify the vinegar then pull with fresh NPS then see what will happen.

I am going through the "Harmalas Extraction and Separation Guide" and asked myself if there is no washing step needed in the end and how this could look like. I mean isnt there a lot of sodium carbonate and salt in the extract? Any hints on this one?

There shouldn't be a lot of salt in it as most of the salt stays in the Manske water. The Manske crystals are somewhat salt contaminated, but after dissolving and freebasing the amount of salt is negligible.

To remove the sodium carbonate, I wash the fb crystals with tap water (my water is alkaline). If you're worried your harmaline might dissolve and get washed away, wash them with dilute (1-3%) ammonia. The ammonia will evaporate as your crystals dry.

So I maybe don't need to wash at all? The most should flow through the filter? I would love a step like redisolve in Xylene or Naphta. So that all sodium carbonate stays in the water.

Hi all So this has happened a couple of times, its doesnt seem to affect the final product but im wondering what it might be. Has anyone else had this happen?

So, skipping past the acid boils. When it comes time to add salt to the acid solution, I get a precipitate forming that floats to the top. The material was Acacia acuminata branch tips, twigs and phyllodes.

Ive attached a photo showing the mystery precipitate.

Note this is before basing the acid solution.
Also I didnt defat as I do a mini AB step.

Any input or thoughts would be great. Thanks

question: I had the materials in a glass. with water etc. and I did not manage the extraction. and let it stand. that is 2 months ago. Now I found the closed glass again. can I still use it ? I don't know if the mimosa is rotten? but looks normal to me. use it or throw away ?

I have bad experiences in the past where FASA added to a dmt freebase acetone solution resulted in crystals too fine to work with. Then after allowing some FASA and a bufo freebase acetone solution sit for a few weeks the resulting rocks reverted to a fine dust when removed from solution. So I want to know if using less fasa and less freebase acetone solution would result in more uniform crystallization. I must've been adding 50ml fasa to 100ml fb acetone solution would using 20ml of both result in some true rocks? Would refrigerating the solution force the insoluble fumarate together? Would adding FASA slowly drop wise over a week get me the results I want? If anyone can concisely outline the process of crystallizing fumarate denser than powder I would be incredibly grateful thank you for your consideration.

Try adding the FASA in small increments of around 5ml at a time, spaced out at even 10 minutes between each addition. The slower you add, the bigger the xtal growth. Add until no more clouding occurs.

What is the best way to isolate the fumarate crystals from the solution?

Thank you Nereus. How will they grow? Does the dmt powder form bonds with itself?

Would it be possible to recrystallize dmt freebase out of acetone by adding water? Since dmt is very soluble in acetone and near insoluble in water this seems realistic. If so what would the ratios and temps be for best results? Could you soak up impure dmt freebase with a minimal amount of naphtha freeze precip remove impure naphtha from the xtals redissolve the xtals in clean naphtha and repeat for larger purer xtals? When converting fumarate xtals to freebase via slow white crystal method does the sodium carbonate water solution freeze? Would this method also result in white dmt if the fumarate are impure? I'd imagine the impurities would be retained in solution. Hopefully this is my last inquiry. Thank you for the help.

Best way to retrieve is to wait until all fumarate has precipitated, settled and solidified on the bottom of the reaction dish, then decant all the FASA, store that for future use, proceed to thoroughly air dry (you can use a fan), scrape xtal and store in a dry environment.

Usually growth happens when 2 molecules of freebase dmt attach to one molecule of fumaric acid, as far as we know. After the bonding happens, dmt-fumarate becomes insoluble in some specific solvents and will soon start to crash out (precipitate) of solution.

The trick behind bigger growth, with the slow addition of FASA/I, is to allow the reaction to take place slower, thus also leaving more time for bigger clusters to form. When adding FASA in larger increments or all at once, the reaction will take place faster, rapidly pushing the dmt-fumarate out of solution, in consequence having less time to form larger clusters and precipitate more as a powder.

I hear a re-x from water will also render very pretty nuggets of dmt-fumarate.

If you've already have some to experiment with, i recommend looking into the water re-x. The above thread is packed with fumarate images. I recommend having a look over there.

1. probably not the best idea. i envision this method leaving you with an oily mess that would be very hard to collect or work with.

2. what you describe is called a recrystallization. browsing the wiki faq will help you greatly.

edit: larger growth could be induced by adding a couple of slow cooling steps and freeze precipitation. this procedure works best with minimal amount of saturated solvent.

3. yes, the water will freeze if left in the freezer as it will retain all its aggregation properties. for that purpose fridge would be enough though.

4. water soluble impurities will remain suspended in solution.