Yesterday we started a pharmahuasca experiment with a group of people. The plan was to find a good dosage protocol for harmalas and oral DMT for people with little experience and people with high sensitivity. This is because the dosage information on the internet is extremely unclear, opinionated and the dosage advice vary by a factor of 10 (!).

However, the group had no time for full pharma session, so we tried vaproized DMT with oral harmalas.

First, 235 mg harmine hydrochloride (i.e. 200 mg freebase equivalent) has been dissolved in a cup of strong ginger tea with 12 drops of lemon oil to counter nausea.

After 15 minutes, the participants were administered with 80 mg changa blend through GVG, containing approx. 34 mg DMT.

Even though no once was able to vaporize the entire dose, the onset was strong with each participant and turned into blissful state that laster for almost two hours total. The strongest DMT effects diminished after 12-15 minutes, but the participants were able to get back into psychedelic states whenever they closed eyes and relaxed. No one was able to talk straight until 30 minute mark, the people were sitting and talking a little after 50-60 minutes and continued enjoying music, being hesitant to end the session even after two hours. They got into some blissfull meditative state that continued after the harmine should have worn off.

The participants then filled anonymous 5D-ASC questionnaire after the experience and we collected our first data.

In the next session, we will probably add tetrahydroharmine (THH) to the tea.

We will share the data points and hopefully some dose-response curve for our oral-harmala/smoked-DMT and pharmahuasca blends.

I’m envious of the group you have . Just curious, where do you intent to put the data collected?

I will share on Nexus

Once having enough samples, I will calculate the major metrics from it and try to correlate with dosage. Not sure if that will work having only few people and 3 months time frame, but I will to my best to get some useful results.

Hey
I've been experiementing with harmalas and dmt for a few months now (much more with harmalas)
For me (84kg 170cm male) around 400mg harmala hcl seems to be full-inhibition (taken 20-30) minutes before dmt, and i have a slight higher natural tolerance for most psychoactives
Interesting thing ive been trying recently, i made an extra potent changa blend of 2:1:1 dmt : harmala : mullein and in a dark room i smoke around 50-60 mg of the blend, which is a minor effect, then after 20 minutes or so i smoke a larger dose of 80-100 mg and the expetiene is prolonged by another 40 minutes and this time, its as tho my baseline is located in the changa breakthrough, very different, much more open, with an unparalleled coherency
The first smoke session also lays ground to become relaxed and settled and make use of the coming higher dose
We have tried this in a group, it feels much more authentic to do this rather than hastly smoke a large bowl
Give it a try if you havent already 👍

Thanks for the suggestion, Espurr.

I have already prepared a second experiment, which is taking HCl salt equivalents of 200 mg harmine and 200 mg tetrahydroharmine (both dissolved in a tea), then smoking enhanced leaf (mint infused with high purity DMT).

We really want to determine potency of the oral harmalas, so we won't combine smoked harmalas with oral until pharma dosage is found.

Unfortunately, all participants refused to take the second smoking, they enjoyed their state until the very end of the experiment.

I've just calculated actual milligram alkaloid content from various ayahuasca brews from [1] and it seems people usually ingest well over 300 mg harmine and over 300 mg THH with . The harmaline content is negligible.

[1] Callaway, James C. "Various alkaloid profiles in decoctions of Banisteriopsis caapi." Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 37.2 (2005): 151-155.

Okay the next session was 234 mg harmine.HCl with 234 mg THH.HCl followed by 20 mg DMT after 15 minutes.

People took the DMT as infused mint leaf from an electronic vaporizer set at 210 °C but felt only threshold effects that quickly diminished. I then smoked the leaf from GVG and had strong bodily but no visual effects, like from 10-15 mg DMT. It seems they vaporized only half of the product if not less.

The overall effects over next 2 hours vere very mild to none while one subject had strong nausea, vomiting, purging and needed to take a hot shower. She felt extremely weak and having urge to puke even after 2 hours.

I am confused, there seems to be a strong weight-response correlation and some people seem to be extremely sensitive to THH while some feel just a "slight high like taking a puff of weed".

Great experiments and thanks for sharing those

On itself I keep THH (in FB) at 100 mg, to eliminate the side effects that start to deteriorate the benefits, just for me, everyone is different.
And you can take THH 1 hour in advance of the other harmalas, it's working span is soo large you can take advantage of that. This way it's also relieving the stomach of too much alkaloids all at once.

Thanks. But where did you get this information?

I searched the internet and scientific papers over and under and could not find any information on tetrahydroharmine activity, nor any relevant information on this compound whatsoever (dosage, duration, pharmacology, interactions, contraindications etc.)

Schulgin wrote it's basically not active even at 300 mg mark. PsychonautWiki notes some activity around 200 mg but no source is provided for that.

One vendor of THH marketed it as "the most sought after harmalas" ... again, no source provided for why is that. For me, it's just an inactive alkaloid having no real psychoactive effects beyond placebo. It's maybe over-hyped in the psychedelic community since it's present in B. caapi along harmine, harmane, harmalol etc. and Dennis McKenna noted somewhere it might carry the healing properties of B. caapi and might be a weak SSRI. But all this is not based on solid evidence AFAIK.

The few vendors of THH don't provide any information about this as well.

Not much of sublingual experiences on my end, sorry for that

I suppose we have to live with different reported experiences, whatever the cause of that difference is. I can imagine they all had different "THH" to start with. The lab rats might have the purest, while other's kitchen products might end at 90% purity, and some others might just reach 50% or so, and all report as if they speak of the very same thing.

I'm truly baffled beyond understanding why people feel nothing of 200 - 300 mg of THH. If they speak of MAOI properties then that's quite another matter (understatement) than feeling-harmalas working on you without considering MAOI at all.

I don't subscribe the holiest toward THH, it's just another compound imho, doing it's own thing in collaboration/synergy with the other stuff. The persons pumping up THH's reputation usually never had THH experienced in a pretty cool purity, only to have it experienced as part of a mixture (usually aya). I would certainly not start to worship ice because it seals an unmistakable deal in a mojito. But it's fun to be fan boy I guess of something you really roll with, drooling over a certain mix, why not. I think a lot of mix-properties have been attributed to one of it's compounds in a romanticizing way. Just guessing.

Wishing you courage for your efforts to map out some experiences, even if they don't align with others, it will shed light anyhow, very much appreciated

PS: I'll see about that half life of THH thingy. Anyone jumping in with data welcomed.

There are more articles but I guess this will do:



Pharmacokinetics of Hoasca alkaloids in healthy humans. Excerpt see attachment below
On that graph I can't really see Harmine half life to be 115 mins (different test?), but at 500 mins things clearly show THH as the duration champ.

Many thanks, Jees! This is exactly the information I was looking for.