Hi

I have a question regarding the ratios in a changa mix that a friend is trying to make.

He has some 10x syrian rue extract, peppermint, blue lotus plus the spice. What would be a good ratio to mix these at? He also has some pau d'arco but read that you shouldn't mix too many things together as keeping it simple can be better.

It's his first time making changa and would really appreciate any advice anyone here might be able to offer especially with regards to rue extract and how much of it should be used.

Many thanks

Hi Foxyowl,

there's not one single way to mix the proportions for changa. Check the page for Changa in the Wiki, if you haven't done so already.

I've tried changa with the common proportions of 1:1:1 (same amount for herbs, harmalas and spice) but my sweet spot seems to be 1 part herb, 1 part spice, 1/2 part harmalas. Or take for instance the Witchdrum mix used there as an example.



If you intend to get accurate proportions, plant extracts can be tricky. Syrian rue has reportedly variable concentration of harmalas (some sources state 3%, others 6%, others even more) so it's difficult to figure out the exact amount of harmalas in the extract you have.

If you wanted to eyeball it, you might decide that your extract was made with seeds containing a 5% of alkaloids... then, for instance, one gram of seeds would have 50 mg of alkaloids. That means that one (properly made) gram of x10 would have 500 mg, so in order to add 300 mg of harmala alkaloids you would require 600 mg of that extract. But again, it's an assumption.

That's why normally people will extract their own harmalas.

But If I was you and wanted to try that extract, I'd try to use at most as much rue extract as herbs you are using, which should be 1 part herb, 1 part spice, 1 part rue extract. Not because that agrees with the figures (which we don't know) but because the larger the bulk of ingredients other than spice, the more amount you need to smoke, and I like to keep the amounts manageable. You can always make a try with a small amount and see how it turns out, then adjust if necessary.

Just my 2c.

And welcome to the Nexus

Thanks Vodsel, that's really helpful info and good to part of the Nexus!

I'd seen the info in the wiki but thought it would be good to see if anyone had any more advice, so thanks.

Regarding what you mentioned about trying a ratio of 1:1:1 I was wandering what if any are the effects of using too much hamalas in the mix? I've read that syrian rue can have a dampening effect on things if used excessively.

Also, I've smoked enhanced herb and also straight freebass dmt before but never changa. By adding the hamala to the mix what can I expect? Is it simply a longer duration, allowing different, perhaps more relaxed dosing or is the essence experience changed also?

Cheers

Excess of harmalas, in my experience, makes the gentleness of the experience go one step further and become somewhat closer to thickness. But in the right amount it's quite special. Longer, yes, you can expect a 40-60 minutes travel. Also more mellow and tempered, as if the sheer raw power of spice was delivered sweetly and in a more nurturing way. The onset is slower. And you can feel the personality of the herbs used more clearly.

Try it and decide for yourself

Thanks again Vodsel, will report back my experiences :-)

Bumping this old thread in search for answers as I´m somewhat confused.

I´ve a good amount of Syrian Rue 10x extract.

To make changa (ratio 1-1-1) does this 10x extract (Im assuming the seeds had a 3% harmala content, just to be sure) need to made into freebase form or can it be infused into the herb together with spice in it´s powder form?
Would just simple IPA work for this? Soaking extract powder and spice together with herbs in IPA and evaporate?

Finally, with the 1-1-1 changa mix, what would be a suitable amount for smoking? I´ve acquired a small 10cm bong for the purpose as recommended.

Thanks to all, I´m just looking for some straight answer as I´ve been reading quite a lot on the forum and it´s kind of just making me more confused

Thanks!

I would take the extract and put in some ethanol for while, then strain it into the mix. Also for the second time now I am using a dry 50% Anise spirit for my Changa and I just must say that the smell taste and smoke become very smooth and tasty!:

Ok, so I don´t have to make a freebase from the extract then? Just free the alkaloids and strain the liquid into the herbs?

Yes this will work.

If you got the knowledge to do so, I’d advise taking further purification steps with that 10x extract. I would isolate the actives out of it and make sure it is pure to my own likeing before I’d mix it into changa. And freebase is better suites for smoking than salts... saying salts because that’s how these alkaloids are being stored in plant tissue. So my opinion is take the extra mile to purity.

I tried both approaches and do not find any particular difference but of course I also would choose freebase.. but just saying that I dont know if its worth the effort..

The effort is worthy because, until you do it, you can never know what you are getting in a 10x extract. It can be any amount of anything. Not saying it’s bunk, but not saying it will be as advertised either. These so called 10x crude extracts can vary a lot in potency.

This otoh is never the case with a pure isolate. If the OP only has a small amount of 10x then it would be harder to purify, true, but not not worth it. The yield would probably be small, but clean and potent mg for mg.

Cleanliness is another important aspect when it comes to making blends in that plant gunk could unballance the ratios a bit, also diluting the overall potency of the changa.

There are many pro reasons why one would want to work with purified extracts, accuracy of dosage being a solid point. And of course the nexus will always recommend psychonauts take matter into their own hands and use the open source information here to their benefit.

All together I recommend doing your own isolates over the crude extracts anytime. Maybe as future food for thought? Main reasons because extracting rue is heaps of fun, seeds are more accessible than alot of these pre made products and, by isolating yourself, you have the certitude of noming only the best stuff... and trust me, it’s really worth to launch in hyperspace free of doubts concerning the quality of the used tools.

Syrian rue 10x extract or 20x extract is typically a boiled down watery extract of syrian rue seeds. That is -- if you're lucky.

Read this and this thread for a warning about some dodgy "extracts" being offered.

Any brown or reddish brown substance that is claimed to be syrian rue extract should be at least dissolved, filtered and based before even considering to ingest any of it.

Even if the extract is bona fide and genuine, it is still in the form of a salt. This is not a good form for vaporization, for various reasons. Always try to use the freebase form of alkaloids when intending to vaporize them.

Totally agree!