It's not always about you buddy!

That shows that the shop owner/caregiver has a sense of obligation to the customer. It shows that its not all about business, but trying to help the customer. Some people aren't suited to smoke ganja, and similarly, some people aren't suited to smoke DMT.

Here's a scenario. A person is a quadraplegic or paraplegic, but they love cars. And they go on a performance car forum saying they want to drive a super car, and they mention their medical condition. Is everyone gonna say "sure, go for it!", or will they voice their concern for not only the safety of the original poster, but also the safety of pedestrians?

Some people will not be able to handle DMT. Those who are extremely egotistical, close-minded or with predispositions to mental illnesses. Some may say that DMT would help the former two by destroying all sense of ego and close mindedness, but this is not always guaranteed. DMT is for those who seek, and not for those who are not ready. This place is about harm reduction, and not telling everyone to "smoalk moar", although we do joke about it often.

Protostar, it is called a fair warning, and it makes perfect sense. DMT is not for everyone due to a variety of reasons and people should be informed about what they are about to put themselves through.

Lets look at your example: If it was your first time smoking weed, and you walked into a dispensary for the first time, don't you think you might have a few questions about pipes, strains, edibles, etc etc? Don't you think it might be a good idea to do some research before jumping in head first? In relation to this thread, it isn't so much the shop owner saying "don't smoke" as it is the shop owner educating people on the positive and potential negative aspects to smoking weed. The client can easily see both sides this way.

DMT is one of the most powerful substances known to man. So yes, one should absolutely question whether or not they think they are ready to take the plunge. As Vovin said, once you see, it is hard to unsee.

This thread is not to scare people from trying DMT. It is about showing them both sides of the enigma.

Edit: Looks like Philosopher? beat me to the point!

oops double post

^^^ This makes no sense to me whatsoever.
So in those previous 17 pages, nothing made sense to you? Really?

If there are threads standing very strong then this thread is one of them, there is not even a 1 Angstrom wide opening for a debate. Sorry dude but you're dripping on a fine carpet, you simply can't take away from fair warnings.

though...

This is exactly where we differ: I think (and many) that it would be hypocritical to leave out the fair warnings. Giving the impression that it would be okay for anyone to fool around without ramifications, that is guilty imho.

Or maybe your stance is: if you know there is potential mis-fortune then therefore you should not bring it up at all in the first place. Is this how you're thinking? When I read the warnings on classical meds, I think it's fair to mention complications possible. What comes without 2 sides?

Please stop trolling this post, Protostar. Do you take the time to read and consider the responses? "Don't quote me out of context" seems to be your go-to defensive mechanism.

Again, this post is NOT telling people to shy away from DMT. It is a fair warning, a friendly consideration to the next DMT enthusiast, a heads up, and/or a little insight to both sides of the story. It isn't all puppy dogs and rainbows. If you walk into the street without looking, you will likely get hit by a car. If you were new to walking on streets, don't you think having someone there to warn you about the danger of cars zipping by would be useful? Would you never cross the street again after learning of the danger? No, of course not, but you would cross more carefully, looking both ways first...hopefully.

This is a very open and honest post about DMT. It is ANYTHING but hypocritical. I think you should re-read the OP.



The main theme of the OP is, "Do you think you are you ready for DMT? Here are some things to consider before you make a final decision..."

I fail to see how that is a bad thing.

This is one of my favorite posts on the nexus, my wife isn’t mentally ready to breakthrough, both of us know this and respect it. She tried dmt once and got some good effects and decided she wasn’t ready. Since then I’ve showed her a lot of stuff here on the nexus to help her understand she’s not alone and shouldn’t feel forced into trying it again. Something I never thought of in my younger years, it was always the opposite, I wanted everyone to experience everything without question.

Great advice brother! I was not ready my first time, or any time after that. Even now my mind is still recovering from my last dose. But I do feel low doses and good environment make a huge difference
I also feel anyone who is thinking about trying it should do as much research as possible!

This thread is one that I've come to appreciate over time. Many wise words in these pages.


unus

Having read the entire thread I would like to highlight some key posts made by other users that I think are particularly pertinent to the topic and which capture some very important points for consideration by the unexperienced, novice or veteran alike. I will then follow up this post with my own thoughts.

Mods: I hope you don't mind my quoting of those posts. Whilst I would hope all would take the time to read the entire thread and find these posts on their own, they are most definitely worth repeating and bringing to the front of the thread:

--

Bill Cipher


Hyperspace Fool


Michal R


antrocles


joedirt


d*l*b


3rdI


Entheogenerator


tatt

It’s been over 10 years since I’ve touched DMT (or any psychedelic) when I was still just a teenager. In that time I have spent much of my life reflecting, integrating, and deepening my search for answers through philosophy and inner-work. I feel it is my duty, as is all of ours, to sincerely work for the best in others, especially those who are genuinely looking for Truth, and to save them from falling afoul of potential hazards on their trip up the mountain.

Upon reflection I think many would agree that perhaps the wider psychedelic community has been too eager to embrace DMT as some sort of panacea to personal or collective troubles, or that it will solve the big questions in ones own life. It’s like the lessons of the 60’s have been largely ignored. Now that it has penetrated the mainstream I feel compelled to speak up and throw my hat in because, in my opinion, there are real dangers with using DMT (and psychedelics generally) that get brushed aside by the hedonistic and care-free impulses, especially in the younger folk who think they are largely immortal and who are the most at risk. One of these dangers happens to be almost the focal point of the whole DMT experience – entities. I’m going to write up in the entities thread when I become a full member on that topic in particular. Interestingly I found a post in this thread, by ‘litrium’, that mirrors very closely what happened to me on one of my trips.

DMT is akin to jumping into the middle of an ocean when you’ve only just learned how to tread water. You are out of your domain and subject to laws, creatures, and perceptions that are ordinarily shielded from you, by nature, for your own protection. I’m not convinced that even the Shamans know what they are doing and are potentially being played like fiddles in a lot of cases. A few users in here have already suggested they are reluctant to pass on this knowledge of DMT to others, and I think that is wise choice - ‘To little children you must remain silent.’

Not all progress is progress, and I think the wider psychedelic community should re-evaluate its position, at least from a serious mental health standpoint – we know about as much as the professional psychiatrists.. mostly nothing. We’ve jumped out to sea and not everyone has come back in one piece. It’s easy to say it will never happen to me, or dismiss the existence of entities and real psychological affects they can produce, or even just assume you will be able to just come back to ordinary reality with your previous state of mind after seeing some funky stuff. Too often, and I see it here on the forum, the advice is ‘seek professional help’, as if our materialistic psychological system is now somehow a complete psychological system that can save and cure. I’m not saying one shouldn’t consult an expert or doctor, just be aware that they do not have all the answers. Even a cursory investigation into the field of psychology, which everyone should do before taking any substance, will reveal to you just how little they really understand and how much they wing it when it comes to remedies and therapies. I can’t underscore that point enough. If you end up with monkeys on your back as a result of using substances, you may well be on your own in regards to finding a cure. No one wants to hear the horror stories, the reality, the statistics, because it might interfere with the fun and games, but we are lying to ourselves and to others by choosing to omit that information. That is why threads like this are vitally important, people who’ve been there and gotten a few scars, but survived, and can widen our understanding.

DMT, like all psychedelics, has the potential to uproot a lot of ego structures. You often hear affirmative statements about destroying the ego and similar, but if your ego is the only thing holding you up it is not necessarily wise to seek to uproot it. Real inner-work takes physical and mental adjustments, so that egos can be dropped or taken from you at the right time. People are not equal, we are all at a different stage of ripening, and turning all people on to substances is reckless behaviour. If you haven’t developed the discernment to know if someone should use a substance you probably shouldn’t be using any yourself.

There’s little I can say to stop anyone using it. It’s not my place to do so anyway. All I would say is if you are determined to use it, use it properly and follow the guidance offered on the forum.

Finally, DMT is a mental vision, a projection. So is the ‘real’ world. Truth is where you are, now. You don’t need to ingest anything to find the answer.

Great response man! (Didn't quote the entire thing due to not wanting to push any extra data into a DB field).

I have had to walk away for a bit, to ground properly, very rarely touching anymore more than changa and even then only "sub breakthrough" time with the atman and then 6-12 months apart aya experiences out of country.

I think DMT has a pull attached to it, unlike any other psychedelic (maybe 5 meo has the same allure). It seems to draw out the "Kid at Disney" feelings. The magic does seem to pull people in unhealthy directions and makes people forget the law as well a lot of the time (well it pushes those concerns to an improper place, to the background rather than the forefront).

(Terrence, quoting leary who said he didn't say it) "LSD is the drug that causes psychotic breaks in people who never took it". I feel like this is moreso with DMT.

It seems like you have your head on straight. You will make a good addition to the nexus community. Welcome as well.

I think the problem is that not everybody should smoke DMT. The problem with "egocentric" narcistic or even "psychopatic" behaviour is that these "mind"sets dont know autoevaluation cause they are,in their point of view, the center of all references and meausures.They think they are the "golden ratio". You cannot discuss really with those "mindsets". And as you cannot except a real personal, or even spiritual developement,it make no sense to use a strong psychodelic, the experience would lead to total deamonic selfconfrontation, with more hate and fear as result OR it would lead to a more egocentric and maniac state of mind.
Remeber the movie Blueberry, the "bad" guy, isnt capable of insight, just wants to gain power through the shamanic experience, and he DIES, because he cannot let go of his deamons.
In the words of CarlGustav JUNG: "Sometimes the state of illness is safer for the patient than the cure"

Great post and replies. I have this to add:

DMT can be mind shattering etc. But don't underestimate the ability of a brain (free from psychological /neurological complications) to restore from an ego shattering experience. Might take some time depending on the intensity, but in the end status quo is achieved again. The brains main function is maintaining equilibrium, a task it has mastered in many ways. A mind shattering DMT experience is not enough to forever disrupt the default network of a healthy person.

This is the reason that short lived forceful experiences induced by external substances are regarded as inferior compared to the long path of self improvement through for example meditation. It is also the reason that the LSD revolution didn't work as well as expected and why Strassman stated in DMT The Spirit Molecule that he was surprised about how people seemed to forget the powerful insights they experienced and went back to their usual (thinking) habits as time passed.

This self-preservation hard to break learned patterns mechanism of the mind is a good thing. It protects the integrity of your identity, which is one of your organisms primary survival functions in life. Unless your have psychological complications, I wouldn't worry about DMT screwing up your red pill world view forever, separating yourself from the blue pill people. If this happens, it's either a relatively short lived state of mind from an intense experience, or a longer lived one through frequent use. Stop for 2 years and see what happens..

Conclusion: you shouldn't take DMT lightly, but lets not over praise its power either.

And let's separate the oral route of ayahuasca from smoking. Using the first one can gradually build up the intensity over the years.

Ive tried a multitude of psychedelics so far but ive yet to find dmt and i kinda think its for that reason exactly. I went through a long stretch where i basically got obsessed with unfathomable things(existence,death,reality...) While taking lots of lsd and dxm. It slowly made me start losing focus on the other important things in my life. If i would have had dmt at that point in my life it probably would have set me over the edge. Over time i started to calm down and just let things be what they are. Ignorance is bliss. To this day i still have never found dmt and never had a breakthrough that matched the strength of salvia. I like to think dmt will present itself when im ready now. So until then..... I wait patiently.

Why not extract your own?

Whoever plans on experiencing with higher doses ( I had a 4 hour long "trip" ) :
The most surprising and scary thing is the shattering of your reality, especially if you're a skeptical person and don't believe in anything without physical evidence or some kind of proof. It will definitely make you think & believe.
It's a crazy feeling when you've lived all your life and clinged on to the fact that reality is "real" and everything just exists inside it and nothing could ever happen outside of it, and then you're presented with something that breaks that limit and it just overwhelms you, you start to question what is ACTUALLY real because you are feeling other "realities" and they seem just as if not MORE real than your previous idea/setting of reality.
Things that you otherwise thought were impossible and unimaginable start happening right in front of you, as if it were happening when you were "sober" & it's a different kind of feeling, it's not like alcohol or most marijuana where u can still tell that you're just kind of high or drunk and everything's just amplified and nothing out of the ordinary is happening, it's a complete "sober" experience of unimaginable things that don't go by the laws of this world and it's just unveiling in front of you, and you can use all five senses to acknowledge those things, you can see, smell, hear, taste & physically FEEL those things and they're REAL. That's what makes you question if everything you see in the "real" world is just a narrow projection of your brain and with alterations to your mind (DMT?) you can create or shift into other "realities". If the five senses were your some kind of "proof" that what is happening is real than you start to question that, it's no longer an indicator of reality and it makes you feel like you're going fucking crazy.
My conclusion Is that we're "locked" & "programmed" to believe that our reality is the real deal for us for some reason, maybe even for our own good. DMT is essentially what breaks that barrier and lets us see the full(?) picture for a little while.
So if you are a stubborn & close minded person who thinks that you know everything about this world and that "everything can be explained by science" get ready to be proven wrong... by yourself

Hi Infpwnz, most people here know exactly what you mean, especially the MORE true aspect, the higher resolution. It's baffling.


I advocate to stop thinking in terms of science versus something else. Because if you dare science to prove something what they say, they might just do that and load you with things you cannot understand to begin with. Watch out what you ask for!

On the other hand why would science never be able to catch up? Maybe they do, later. And there are people working on it to find correlations between the experiences and measurements. It's going to be tough and maybe fail, but they're working on it nonetheless. Science is not the enemy to drown somehow because you had an experience.

What I concur with is that the experience is felt as utter real, all of it, otherwise we could not experience it. But at the same time I'm convinced that experiences are also just that, experiences and no more, I mean there are a ton of contradicting experiences, you'll make a poor stance bringing those on the table as proof.

If the experience is proving something to me, than it is the embracing of contradictions and the stopping of certainties. And I think you're wrong about science thinking narrow, it's wide open to accept contradictions and they work with it as such (e.g. the wave-particle stuff). Albert Einstein had trouble going that route of probability (vs full determinism), he resisted heavily and fierce, but he had to give in to more modern forms of science that embrace uncertainties and probabilities very much. You see it is willing to adapt if things can be brought on the table. I think science is asking for any prove of hyperspace and the ball is in your/our camp to deliver. How would you start doing that? Tbh I have no idea how to do that.

OOps off topic, sorry but you got me into it

I actually agree with your point Jees
I used the wrong term, I should've not said science. what i meant is "your belief" vs something else.
I am open to the idea that all of this can be explained by science in the future but it still doesn't make it any less amazing for me. I wanted to warn the kind of people who are not open to accepting that things might be totally different to what they seem, because with todays scientific knowledge for an average Joe what you experience with DMT kind of seems absurd, so a lot of people might not be able to cope with such an experience. Basically, you have to be open to the fact that what we know about this world and the current "proven facts" in science and what we consider "undeniable truths" are actually completely false.
I definitely did NOT have this kind of "accepting" mindset and that's why the experience was so devastating for me in a way. I feel the need to warn people not to make the same "mistake" as i did and just accept & embrace the endless possibilities of the world.