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5MEO-DMT First Time Options
 
Cactus Man
#1 Posted : 4/22/2018 4:36:01 AM
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Ive had a very small bit of 5meo sitting around for awhile now. Thinking soon its gonna be time for my first journey with it once the weather warms up a bit more. I dont really know much about 5meo. Does anyone have advice for someones first time with it?
 

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Aum_Shanti
#2 Posted : 4/22/2018 9:48:06 AM
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This is from my perspective the important aspects to know of 5-MeO-DMT, before usage (what just comes to my mind):

5-MeO-DMT is basically a pure ego-killer. It is not a recreational substance. It can be a little if used in very small dosages (see below).

A short remark regarding Ego-Death:

Ego-death sounds good, and many people have a kinda romantic POV about it and think "Yes, I also wanna experience this". But these people are not aware, that they (their wrong identification with their ego) have to die for this. You have to be ready for this and have to be able to accept to die. Some people think "Yeah, I know, it's just this substance, so I'm not really going to die, so it cannot be that wild". But believe me, in this very moment it is absolute 100% real for you! You will be fully convinced to really die.

5-MeO-DMT is IMHO additionally a bit special, as the process to get there is totally brutal, with an incredible unstoppable power and speed. Also IMHO 5-MeO-DMT goes a bit further than most other substances and doesn't even leave a pinch of remaining self.

IMHO important to mention are the following rather frequent reactions on it:

* Vomiting
Can be very dangerous, as one could smother from ones own vomit.

* Wild body movements/rolling around
Can also be dangerous, because you can hurt yourself by that. Just imagine, what would be, if you now wildly would beat around yourself and roll around. So there shouldn't be any potential dangerous things around (like glass, hard objects, water, cliffs, traffic, heat sources, etc). Especially the latter is a special problem,as this means, you have to find a way to vape it, so that you cannot burn yourself afterwards. That's why I use a cup atomizer. I know of one case, where someone used a dab-rig and then rolled around and burnt himself.

* Stopped Breathing
This happens quite often. This can endure that long, so that the subject under influence (SUI) starts to get blue. It seems the experienced providers usually pour some cold water over the face of the SUI, which usually results in a body breathing reaction. But I'm not aware of any case, where the SUI did not start to breathe again on its own anyways.

* Loud Shouting and Crying
Not really problematic on first sight. But if you live in an apartment building, this can lead to problems, if someone starts to cry loud like crazy. There it can happen, that a neighbor knocks on your door, or even calls the police.
Also if you're outside, the crying could be heard from a far distance, and people could get alarmed.

Also to mention is, that the SUI usually is not aware of all of this. Also you cannot derive the trip state by these outer body reactions. E.g. it can well be, that the SUI is in total exstacy, but his body shows such symptoms.

That's why my recommendation is clear:
You need a tripsitter (at least the first few times).
But the sitter has to be really good informed, about what to potentially expect, for it is something totally different than sitting other psychedelics. What (s)he potentially gets to see can be very extreme and emotionally scarring. So please inform the sitter about all eventualities (e.g. also show them some youtube vids), and ask them if they're really OK with this (and not just do it as a favor for you, but feel at unease), or otherwise there's the possibility that the sitter will get a PTSD from this. Don't be so selfish and basically force someone into sitting you.
If the sitter feels at unease, then this is BTW also bad for you, as it can very well emotionally negatively influence you.
The sitter should be able to hold you, even if you try to move strongly. If this is not possible, maybe think about using 2 sitters. Another advantage having a sitter is, that (s)he can hold the vape-device for you with eventual heat sources and can then take it away to a safe place. So nothing can happen even with hot vape devices.

Regarding deaths:
On paper, 5-MeO-DMT is very safe (apart from indirect threats,like mentioned above), with a high LD50 dosage in animal research.
But there have been several reported human deaths. But the ones I heard of are all a bit obscure and the conditions unclear (e.g. mixing with other substances).

5-MeO-DMT is usually not (very) visual. But it gets converted in the body by CYP2D6 into bufotenin, which is very visual. This could explain why it is very visual for some people, although it seems odd that the body would be able to convert substantial amounts fast enough.
If this CYP2d6 hypothesis would really be correct, then that means for people with a poor CYP2D6 metabolism (like me), 5-MeO-DMT is absolutely not visual at all, except everything fading into a bright white. But for people with a strong CYP2D6 metabolism it can be very visual, like DMT. Others lie somewhere in between these extremes, according to their CYP2D6 metabolism.

Regarding Dosage:
There are two totally different viewpoints in relation to dosing 5-MeO-DMT. One side recommends dosing it like you would other psychedelics, by starting low and slowly increasing the dosage. The other side recommends dosing high and then slowly decreasing the dosage, so that you can so get to the smallest dosage needed to BT, so that you can memorize the most.
IMHO usually the more experienced users/providers favor the second method (me too). Why? If you're on a just sub-breakthrough dosage, then you will usually experience an extreme body load (the famous "elephant sitting on your chest"Pleased and a true anxiety-hell, for the ego is fighting with all it has to survive, but the dosage is not high enough that you (your ego) give up and die. So you basically just get a total hell of trip. But there are some few rare individuals which do not seem to get this extreme bodyload. For them it may be a better option to go up slowly dosage wise.
If you dose too high you will usually get simply a "whiteout". That means you do get an ego-death, but you cannot remember anything about it anymore. Usually you remember how you enter into the light and then how you get back from the light, with no memory what happened in between. That's why it's called "white"out in comparison to a "black"out.
The whole idea behind the second method is, that a whiteout is usually not seen as a bad experience, whereas a too small dosage, results with a high probability in a total hell of a trip. Therefore the idea to start with a higher dosage, and then, if you get a whiteout, decrease the amount for next time.
But it seems, some people, which hold very strong to their ego, have no dosage area where they can breakthrough conscious. For them it is either hell, or whiteout.

But all this doesn't apply if you take very small dosages (e.g. max 5mg intranasal). In this dosage realm, 5-MeO-DMT can be kinda recreational. This works quite good intranasal, sublingual or by IM injection. Vaped this doesn't really work good, as the come-up is too powerful and everything is over within a few minutes. Even just 2mg vaped properly, basically floor you instantly.

Regarding vaporization:
You have to inhale everything in one toke, as you do not have enough time for a second one (the come-up is really fast), and have to hold it in your lungs for quite some time so that it can be fully absorbed.
Usually you vape the freebase form, for all other ROAs the salt form. The needed dosages seem to be very similar for most people: For a total BT you need about 12-15mg vaped FB. (Most current providers dose about 100mg toad secrete, which is about 15mg 5-MeO-DMT)
But this strongly depends on your vaping tek. E.g. I read of many people using huge amounts of 5-MeO-DMT and still not breaking through. They clearly have a totally bad vaping tek.

Cross tolerance:
According to my own experience, 5-MeO-DMT does not have a cross tolerance with other psychedelics. E.g. I currently have a huge tolerance for psychedelics, and 5-MeO-DMT still is as effective as always. This is probably because it acts mainly via 5HT1, not 5HT2 like psychedelics usually do.

As said, this is just from my perspective, what comes to my mind about 5-MeO-DMT, not claiming this is the truth. Others can well see it differently, and please should also add their perspective.
I claim not that this is the truth. As this is just what got manifested into my mind at the current position in time on this physical plane. So please feel not offended by anything I say.
 
Cactus Man
#3 Posted : 4/24/2018 4:02:37 PM
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im thinking of trying a very low dose my first time since ive heard some people can have very extreme and sometimes bad reactions when smoking/vaping 5meo. most likely gonna try 1-2mg vaporized or maybe smoked just to see what happens for my first time.
 
Eaglepath
#4 Posted : 4/24/2018 5:44:49 PM

I rather root my values in my own hallucinations than in society´s neurotic illusions..


Posts: 681
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Aum_Shanti wrote:
This is from my perspective the important aspects to know of 5-MeO-DMT, before usage (what just comes to my mind):

5-MeO-DMT is basically a pure ego-killer. It is not a recreational substance. It can be a little if used in very small dosages (see below).

A short remark regarding Ego-Death:

Ego-death sounds good, and many people have a kinda romantic POV about it and think "Yes, I also wanna experience this". But these people are not aware, that they (their wrong identification with their ego) have to die for this. You have to be ready for this and have to be able to accept to die. Some people think "Yeah, I know, it's just this substance, so I'm not really going to die, so it cannot be that wild". But believe me, in this very moment it is absolute 100% real for you! You will be fully convinced to really die.

5-MeO-DMT is IMHO additionally a bit special, as the process to get there is totally brutal, with an incredible unstoppable power and speed. Also IMHO 5-MeO-DMT goes a bit further than most other substances and doesn't even leave a pinch of remaining self.

IMHO important to mention are the following rather frequent reactions on it:

* Vomiting
Can be very dangerous, as one could smother from ones own vomit.

* Wild body movements/rolling around
Can also be dangerous, because you can hurt yourself by that. Just imagine, what would be, if you now wildly would beat around yourself and roll around. So there shouldn't be any potential dangerous things around (like glass, hard objects, water, cliffs, traffic, heat sources, etc). Especially the latter is a special problem,as this means, you have to find a way to vape it, so that you cannot burn yourself afterwards. That's why I use a cup atomizer. I know of one case, where someone used a dab-rig and then rolled around and burnt himself.

* Stopped Breathing
This happens quite often. This can endure that long, so that the subject under influence (SUI) starts to get blue. It seems the experienced providers usually pour some cold water over the face of the SUI, which usually results in a body breathing reaction. But I'm not aware of any case, where the SUI did not start to breathe again on its own anyways.

* Loud Shouting and Crying
Not really problematic on first sight. But if you live in an apartment building, this can lead to problems, if someone starts to cry loud like crazy. There it can happen, that a neighbor knocks on your door, or even calls the police.

Also to mention is, that the SUI usually is not aware of all of this. Also you cannot derive the trip state by these outer body reactions. E.g. it can well be, that the SUI is in total exstacy, but his body shows such symptoms.

That's why my recommendation is clear:
You need a tripsitter (at least the first few times).
But the sitter has to be really good informed, about what to potentially expect, for it is something totally different than sitting other psychedelics. What he potentially gets to see can be very extreme. So please inform the sitter about all eventualities, or otherwise there's the possibility that the sitter will get a PTSD from this.
The sitter should be able to hold you, even if you try to move strongly. If this is not possible, maybe think about using 2 sitters. Another advantage having a sitter is, that he can hold the vape-device for you with eventual heat sources and can then take it away to a safe place. So nothing can happen even with hot vape devices.

Regarding deaths:
On paper, 5-MeO-DMT is very safe (apart from indirect threats,like mentioned above), with a high LD50 dosage in animal research.
But there have been several reported human deaths. But the ones I heard of are all a bit obscure and the conditions unclear (e.g. mixing with other substances).

5-MeO-DMT is not visual. But it gets converted in the body by CYP2D6 into bufotenin, which is very visual. That means for people with a poor CYP2D6 metabolism (like me), 5-MeO-DMT is absolutely not visual at all, except everything fading into a bright white. But for people with a strong CYP2D6 metabolism it can be very visual, like DMT. Others lie somewhere in between these extremes, according to their CYP2D6 metabolism.

Regarding Dosage:
There are two totally different viewpoints in relation to dosing 5-MeO-DMT. One side recommends dosing it like you would other psychedelics, by starting low and slowly increasing the dosage. The other side recommends dosing high and then slowly decreasing the dosage, so that you can so get to the smallest dosage needed to BT, so that you can memorize the most.
IMHO usually the more experienced users/providers favor the second method (me too). Why? If you're on a just sub-breakthrough dosage, then you will usually experience an extreme body load (the famous "elephant sitting on your chest"Pleased and a true anxiety-hell, for the ego is fighting with all it has to survive, but the dosage is not high enough that you (your ego) give up and die. So you basically just get a total hell of trip. But there are some few rare individuals which do not seem to get this extreme bodyload. For them it may be a better option to go up slowly dosage wise.
If you dose too high you will usually get simply a "whiteout". That means you do get an ego-death, but you cannot remember anything about it anymore. Usually you remember how you enter into the light and then how you get back from the light, with no memory what happened in between. That's why it's called "white"out in comparison to a "black"out.
The whole idea behind the second method is, that a whiteout is usually not seen as a bad experience, whereas a too small dosage, results with a high probability in a total hell of a trip. Therefore the idea to start with a higher dosage, and then, if you get a whiteout, decrease the amount for next time.
But it seems, some people, which hold very strong to their ego, have no dosage area where they can breakthrough conscious. For them it is either hell, or whiteout.

But all this doesn't apply if you take very small dosages (e.g. max 5mg intranasal). In this dosage realm, 5-MeO-DMT can be kinda recreational. This works quite good intranasal, sublingual or by IM injection. Vaped this doesn't really work good, as the come-up is too powerful and everything is over within a few minutes. Even just 2mg vaped properly, basically floor you instantly.

Regarding vaporization:
You have to inhale everything in one took, as you do not have enough time for a second one (the come-up is really fast), and have to hold it in your lungs for quite some time so that it can be fully absorbed.
Usually you vape the freebase form, for all other ROAs the salt form. The needed dosages seem to be very similar for most people: For a total BT you need about 12-15mg vaped FB.
But this strongly depends on your vaping tek. E.g. I read of many people using huge amounts of 5-MeO-DMT and still not breaking through. They clearly have a totally bad vaping tek.

Cross tolerance:
According to my own experience, 5-MeO-DMT does not have a cross tolerance with other psychedelics. E.g. I currently have a huge tolerance for psychedelics, and 5-MeO-DMT still is as effective as always. This is probably because it acts mainly via 5HT1, not 5HT2 like psychedelics usually do.

As said, this is just from my perspective, what comes to my mind about 5-MeO-DMT, not claiming this is the truth. Others can well see it differently, and please should also add their perspective.



This mainly sums everything up. Very well written! Nothing to add.
"Too cute to live, too cozy to die" - Eaglepath
 
 
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