...There's no call for that, Naut. I haven't claimed anything at all about DMT. I have only expressed what I "think" based on what I have already read and seen from others. If you are "convinced" that there is no way that I can be correct, then there's only one of us that has made an omniscient claim.

-Birdman

Friendly apologies for responding in that way earlier fella. I'll put it this way: People here with just as much validity to the perception of life as you or I have journeyed vividly into scenarios brought on by these epic substances. To put it succinctly, we've been leveled to the core in the presence of things so ineffable. Gobsmacked by what we've witnessed. In a way, it's kind of a bummer when someone throws a blanketing downplay over something so personal, visceral and tremendous to our lives.

As I've personally delved deeper, and deeper, and deeper I can't help but to nod my head in dear respect to others who have felt witness to something of this nature. Not in a way where I suspend all skepticism of the event but instead have empathy for the heaviness of the encounter.

I guess I perceive this forum as an environment where we need to be mindful with discrediting others as these phenomena vastly complex. That is not to say welcome naively relativism but just to step among each other elegantly. Again, didn't mean to throw ya off like that earlier.

...My key issue your response is highlighted in bold.

I have not discredited anyone's experience nor have I made any judgement at all regarding DMT. I challenge you "copy and paste" anywhere in any post that I've made on the DMT Nexus where I have discredited anyone's experience or even made a disparaging remark about them. I haven't done so even with those who have clearly posted disparaging remarks about me.

The only opinion I have expressed so far is that there is no indication that DMT is anything more than just an extremely powerful hallucinogenic drug. Equally, the ONLY REASON I hold this opinion right now is due to my extensive past experience with powerful hallucinogens, certain Nexus' members offering defensive resistance to answering my questions and numerous inconsistencies that I find in the many user reports regarding their DMT experiences.

Are the "opinions" where one openly states, "Hey, I spoke with a living entity and she said..." absolutely welcome on the Nexus and any "opinions" that say, "I don't think there are actual living entities inside these DMT realms" absolutely not welcome at all?

Let me know right now, Naut and I'll head for the exit door! If the members on the DMT Nexus do not want those who truly seek the truth to ask any questions, then I'm obviously wasting my time.

-Birdman

Wowzers person relax. I mean sheesh if you're going to give this much shove back then whatever do your thing. but but but....


^ This right here, imo, is so open to interpretation of you disparaging the personally experienced entity phenomenon. The way you worded it... it's just such a closure stomping statement, idk maybe others see it otherwise.
Like I said earlier I'm not in the field of doing away with skepticism on any front and I also mentioned the relativism point which I thought would have productively made an impact on your response which it kinda failed. If we had a voice conversation this could be sorted out well and good but this is my last response to ye mate hopefully you get something out of it.

Peace

I understand this point of view very well. But at the same time, the intensity or depth of the experience says nothing at all about the plausibility of any claim being made about the true nature of hyperspace.
It can however, be a reason for people to not just suspend their disbelief, but also any kind of critical reflection on the experience.

Your argument actually is a good reason for why we should aways keep asking ourselves "am i still seeing things clearly?"

...Dragonrider, I agree with you 100%. I don't care how incredibly profound, enlightening or enjoyable one's DMT experience might be, one must always question the source and legitimacy of whatever it is they are experiencing. The moment you refuse to question something is the moment that something becomes your master.

-Birdman

...Naut, it is utterly reprehensible for you to claim what I wrote is in any way "disparaging" of someone's experience -- and you know it! My "thinking" that these entities are not real is in no way saying, "These entities you are seeing are not real - That's just crazy!" -- or -- "If you think these entities are real then you have a serious problem!"

If someone here on the DMT Nexus claims that they have spoken to a living, self-aware, sentient "entity" after using DMT, then I should be equally entitled to question if what they are experiencing might be something else. To suggest that I can't question this is ridiculous -and to suggest that my doing so is "disparaging" is even worse!

That "something else" might actually be "something better" than what someone thought it was should they also question it to a greater degree. Maybe the ability to work out one's own internal conflicts within the context of a drug-induced sate can be of great benefit to the user? DMT might present a scenario which allows a user a "sense of power" that they can never achieve while locked within the confines of normal every-day life.

I find it intriguing that Nitegazer can manipulate his own DMT environment to meet a certain degree of sensuality that he finds fulfilling. It points more toward his ability to control his own mindscape and not necessarily that he's actually "meeting live entities" but regardless... it's working for him! It might not be as "mind shattering" as meeting a live inter-dimensional entity, but being able to enhance your own life via DMT is a great benefit none the less.

So Look, buddy, if you have to work this damn hard at trying to paint me as a "bad guy", then I have nothing more to say to you. Just agree to avoid my posts and I'll agree to avoid yours.

Problem solved! (with no DMT entities' input required).

-Birdman

P.S. If in the future you're looking for a reliable measure for determining what constitutes a disparaging remark, then look no further than your own words:

Hey guys,

this topic is for SleepyeArt who just wanted to share his art. Why start a discussion? I think that's pretty selfish.

And I for one think this depiction is really wonderfull! I also really like that you put in a joker-like figure. These guys always remind me to take life not so serieus and to have fun.

hats off to you

...I totally agree! I loved his artwork and I even added a salient "fellow artist" comment regarding it. It's a shame his thread got hijacked (and I understand the feeling). You'll find exactly where the "thread derailment" began with Lumina's and Naut's replies to one of my follow-up comments.

-Birdman

Uh, awesome art DES, please keep sharing, I don't know what this is about either, but I can see that at some point you actually tried DMT, which is refreshing. It'd be cool if everyone who likes to talk about its qualities did.

But anyhey-let's talk art!

Depicting the psych experience has for me always been an exercise in symbolism, never have I been able to represent a snapshot of anything I've seen. I've always assumed most visionary artists to be the same. While some-like yours, or android jones, salviadroid- do seem to be able to do just that, I've always taken it as a sort of visual metaphor for the visions actually experienced. Of course, the hyperdiminsionality or the kinetic tessellating fractals of DMT cannot be depicted so this conjecture of mine always felt valid. Is that what you are trying to do- to actually draw what you have witnessed? Kudos no matter what you answer, it's good stuff.

Start another thread about your conjecture BM