So I know there are a bunch of different strains of trichocereus.

Scopulicola
bridgesii
Peruvianus
Pachanoi
Glaucus
Bridgesii Monstrose A&B

So I was wondering is the experience between the different strains that much noticeably different does each cacti have it's own little story to tell or is it "generally" the same experience.

I've had experience with peruvianus & Pachanoi and honestly couldn't really tell that much of a difference and I have mixed them both together in the same drink and couldn't really tell it apart from them seperate. Just curious about your guys input??

Sure it does.

Even the same strain produces different effects depending on specimen. I read some shamans categorize specimens by the number of ribs.

The question is whether there are some general rules, like average hordenine content (or other pharmaceutically active alkalkoids), that will alter the experience.

Most of my experience is with Bridgesii which lives up to its reputation as being consistent in potency (never let me down) and being more or less stimmy. The stimulant effect sometimes makes my lower back clench up painfully. I've found that hard exercise before tripping takes care of that. Physically exhausted and Endorphined is the best way for me to enter a trip.

I've tried Peruvianus Tea once and it was good, active and it seemed to be a little less stimmy.

Terscheckii Tea wired me up big time. It definitel has mescaline, but it also had me pacing the floor for a couple of hours with that "not knowing what to do with myself" feeling. Not sure what else is in Terscheckii that makes it such a strong stimulant (Hordenine?)

I've never tried Pachanoi, although I have several specimens. I look forward to trying it.

AFAIK nobody has done blind tests on it, so we're in the realm of speculation. We have seen people have subjective experiences that seem to point out to there being a difference in effects but we don't know for sure yet. It might be that certain species of Trichocereus or Lophophora cact have enough of other pharmacologically-active alkaloids apart from mescaline to qualitatively change the experience, but it might also be that at least in some cases the perceived subjective difference is related simply to amounts of mescaline being variable in these different cact, and/or self-suggestion.

Would be wonderful if some people were willing to extract different cact, keep samples of the extractions/preparations so I can help forwarding it to analyze (or at least people doing TLC on their own), and then do a blind test with those batches, to triangulate all this data and come up with proper scientific knowledge on the pharmacology of these different species.

This is a question I am also trying to understand. My gut feeling is that it is mostly difference in mesc content & self suggestion...

Mesc itself in a purified form is pretty 'speedy', it has that phenethylamine edge to it.

But yea I don't really know.

You post a very good question and one that I don't believe has any real right or wrong answer. If one comes at this from a shamanic aspect or point of contention then what one generally finds across the board is that differences in phenotype are often associated with different spirits or medicines. Take your 4 winds cacti for instance... does it hold special reverence because it is associated with the 4 winds? 4 directions? Etc. Or is there more to it? So, rib count can affect how a medicine is perceived. Catlinite, a sacred stone used to make pipes, is often carved into beautiful red pipes that are used ceremonially. The shape of the pipe elbow... dictates that it is a female pipe. A "T" shaped pipe is a masculine pipe. A medicine pipe however is often larger or more robust than a personal pipe that one might use in personal ceremony. Now, some pipes made of catlinite have mixed colors... they are variegated stones so to speak and these stones are often regarded with even more regard than their red counterparts. So, color plays a part in how medicines are perceived. Much of this one might argue is subjective or related to beliefs of participants. Blue is often associated with the sky and considered more masculine. Trichocereus with a phallic shape... again more masculine. Green is often associated with the earth however and thus considered to be more feminine. All of these things can be looked at as things that influence an individual who thinks symbolically or who has a belief system that might be influenced by symbolic meaning such as this.

Now, to compound issues of symbolism whether conscious or unconscious... there is also the matter of actual chemical differences that one might find. Such differences might make the ratio of chemicals different and thus affect the experience as well.

My personal belief... is that ones beliefs, stories, legends, myths, etc. all color our experiences and how we relate to these medicines. What we can see, feel, taste.... it is all connected.

Well said Wakinyan. I do think the various species, clones, and even indivdual plants have their own personalities that you can intereact with in different ways. Also raising the plants and loving them makes the experienec better. There are a lot of factors at play...

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Well said Wakinyan. I do think the various species, clones, and even indivdual plants have their own personalities that you can intereact with in different ways. Also raising the plants and loving them makes the experienec better. There are a lot of factors at play...




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This is why I grow most of my cacti from seeds. I believe like you do, that raising and taking care of those cacti creates a relationship with those cacti that can not be totally paralleled by simply purchasing full grown cacti. However, growing any cacti for a time is going to foster that relationship or connection that is simply lost if time is not taken to foster it. If you want simple and fast then your going to miss many of the subtleties that are there to be found by those who are willing to take a slower more meaningful approach.

Speaking of seedlings....One of my favorite seedlings I've grafted today... has parents that both flowered at under 2 feet in height.

each plant has its own unique alkaloid profile, this is a result of its genetic make up and the einvironmental factors benefitting it to grow.

each of the above mentioned species, is better understood as phenotypes, there are known patterns in our collections and many more in the wild

each plants genes can have a relationship between how it appears and its medicine content, or none at all. its up to the plant and the environment again. so its not a sure bet that two simmiliar plants would have the same effect or a different effect

heck ive seen a hundred + year old plant have arms with 5 ribs up to 10 ribs, on the same plant. so in regards to rib count to characterize medicine, id say that is the least reliable.

a wild 4 rib is extremely rare and ive only found it twice, but i usually find that mutants have more potency than their local peers

bridgesii monstrosse as an example, got me on this hunch.

personally you couldnt sneak a TBM brew by me, it has a certain smell and taste, even compared to non monstrosse bridgesii it is clearly a different brew. and the huaraz clones are very different than the bridgesii's monstrosse or not, same thing goes for the matucana wilds/ but theres so much diversity there it gets hairy to say what phenotype it is

pc is also clearly an identfiable flavor, just as cuscoensis is a slightly sweeter version of that in flavor and aroma.

i think its obvious what the tea is by color/ smell/ experience/ taste/ however mostly because im the brewer, if a stranger made it i wouldnt have my method as a constant and it would open up another dimension of variables