Having smoked solely freebase DMT so far, I have decides to try out changa. Yes I know, I had that idea in my head that DMT should be smoked free base. But wisdom comes with the years . And now that I have bought this beautiful EHLE bong ……

I read hundreds of posts and became a lot wiser. But with so much information, it is hard to figure out what is best. Especially the ratio is often confusing. To start easy and work my way up, this is my idea.

Submerge 10 gram Caapi vine in alcohol and let it soak for 14 days. After that the Caapi vine is filtered from the alcohol. Then dissolve 1 gram of DMT in this alcohol.

Subsequently I pulverize 1 gram of Caapi leaves and submerge this into the alcohol with the DMT. When the alcohol is vaporized and the pulverized Caapi leaves are bone dry, it is ready to smoke.

If everything is gone correct, I will have 2 gram of material.

To try this out, I take 50 mg of the pulverized bone dry Caapi leaves and smoke it in the bong. This will contain 25 mg DMT.

I am too worried about using the wrong amounts of Caapi vine, Caapi leaves and DMT so better be safe than sorry. What do you folks think of this ?

If the changa is too hard to smoke, I will add other herbs. But that’s for later.

Thanks in advance for input.

My thoughts are that you would be way better when working with purified extracts. And I'm saying this because you have no guarantee over what will be left after you evaporate the caapi menstruum.

Take for example the case of making 10x caapi leaf, where usually after most of the liquid is reduced to sludge and evaped further onto 1g of plain caapi leaf,the final product mostly never results in just 1g of 10x enriched leaf. Most of the time you'll end up with much more over 1g, therefore unbalancing the ratios heavily, to the point that neither sufficient inhibition , neither a sufficient dose of tryptamine is achieved through smoking an infusion made with it.

I know that (in the 10x case) water is a completely different solvent than alcohol, but still, alcohol can pull a lot of other things too, that in the end will only make your product weigh a lot more than the pure actives..

Imo carefully measured ratios using purified extracts, that can also provide accuracy, are the best. Last thing you want out of such an experiment is to end up with a large qtty of barely active blend... course it's salvageable, but it's just not worth the time imo.

If you're still going to go this route, at least I'd recommend to firstly evap the caapi menstruum separately, and then from that final product take a weighed qtty and use that to infuse further with the rest of your ingredients.

Was all said so much more succinctly before I posted, while I was typing.

edit: sorry I edited whilst being replied to.

Thank you both for your response.

Nereus, what do you recommend to get purified extracts? Which method do you use?

Northener, do you mean that after soaking the Caapi vine I have to take the alcohol from it and have this vaporized? What remains are the harmalas? And by weighing this I know the amount?

Boil the vine and base it, do a couple of plain water washes on it, collect, dry and use that. Caapi is mostly harmine so there is no need to purify more ime, the isolate is best in it's raw freebase form. Also freebase would be much better to smoke.

Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide

Thanks for the reply.

Before deciding to make a proper harmala extraction from the Caapi leaves and/or Caapi vine, I would like to know something.

If I soak ten leaves in enough alcohol for let’s say 30 days, how much, if any, unpleasant alkaloids are in this liquid at the end ?

I have not read serious warnings about this and if I run through all these hundreds of posts in the Changa section, (almost) nobody seems to worry. So what are to possible negative effects? Does anyone know ?

Seems like a really long way to go around making an inferior product.

Not trying to but in haha, just offering my opinion.

I like this tek Easy Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction Guide

I have set aside a couple hundred grams of vine. It'll probably last me the rest of my life tbh, at the pace I'm going anymore with smoked dmt/changa. This always has yielded a very nice light tan freebase. Add around 250-300mg of it for 1g of dmt used, then the herb mix in a 1:1 ratio to dmt. Makes for a very powerful blend, it's incredible and what I've tended to stick with over the years.

Btw, you can also do that caapi tek on concentrated rue tea and get nearly the same colored freebase as caapi, comes out real nice ime. Seems many here do the Tao of Rue tek, also a great tek ime for great looking harmala freebase. Cheers

Caapi, as opposed to rue, does not contain the unpleasant or unwanted vasicines. More so in the leaf , where it is speculated that THH amounts are the highest. As for the vine, the main alkaloids are Harmine and THH. So other than a bit of weight caused by some plant gunk, I think you won't pull anything else next to your desired alkaloids.

Thank you for the input.

It is going to be the TEK. I will use the Caapi vine.

By the way, I just read it again. It contains an error. In the first part Preparation of the Brew it says to add about 500 ml water to the vine, in this case 64 gram, and boil it covered. This must be repeated three times. The TEK says that the result is 1 liter. Well, actually it is 2 liters.

That’s a lot to boil down .

Depending on how processed your starting material is, you could definitely reduce the number of boils to 3 instead of 4. This would allow you to use a lower water ratio too. If you want to have less to reduce just boil uncovered, although this might not be very efficient since you want the vine to sit in enough water to thoroughly pull the actives in 3 washes... either way, reducing on high only takes about 30min or so.

My first changa batch was ready. I dissolved 0,65 gram of DMT in pure alcohol and soaked 0,35 gram pulverized Caapi leaves in it. The drying proces took longer than expected. After a few days the alcohol was vanished but the leaves were still wet. I went through the leaves with a small fork to let it ‘breath’, noticed a green sticky substance on the bottom of the dish and put the leaves on another dish. Finally after eight days the leaves were bone dry. I checked the weight and it was not the expected amount. Instead of 1 gram it was 0,86 gram, a loss of 0,14 gram, mostly DMT.

So the changa changed from

650 mg DMT : 350 mg Caapi into 510 mg DMT : 350 mg Caapi

Then there was the moment to try out my changa. I decided to start low.

I took my bong and put 30 mg changa in the bowl. That’s about 17 mg DMT and 13 mg Caapi. I inhaled all in two hits. The smoke was not harsh, in fact the smoke was nice and smooth. After about five minutes nothing had happened.

I filled the bowl again with 40 mg changa and took two hits. Another five minutes passed and nothing happened.

As I expected something to happen within a very short time, I assumed the changa did not work. For the third time I filled the bowl, 50 mg changa. This too was inhaled, three hits, large ones.

The total amount of changa taken consisted of 70 mg DMT and 50 mg Caapi. I know, this is way too much for a starter, but for some reason it escaped my attention.

I laid down on the couch and new that this would be it for tonight, no matter the effect. And then with a strong force the changa started kicking in. Suddenly my brains were more active than ever before, hard to explain what happened, but I instantly knew it was all too much. This was an overdose for sure.

I keep the trip for my self but needless to say it turned out to be a bad trip. Strange visuals, my heart pounded as if I was going to die, there was total panic for some time, I tried to calm myself and finally I was under control again. Fearful thoughts ran through my mind. Including the afterglow, the trip lasted several hours.

All in all, the trip was worth every penny. And yes, I have learned my lesson.

This changa experience has made a lot clear to me. Apparently the Caapi leaves I have are very potent. As I understand from all the information given in this Changa section, Caapi leaves contain only a small amount of harmalas. Well, this is not always true 🙂.

Changa surely is different from free base DMT. Whatever the reason is, the harmalas, the interaction between DMT and the harmalas, the synergy in the brain, I don’t know, but there is a spirt from the plant that generates something unique. Caapi adds a magical touch.

Next time I will take care of the dose. And I stick with the Caapi leaves. Perhaps later I will try out herbs.

You mention the pulverisation of leaf material in a previous post. I wanted to add that it might not be the best idea since small particles of plant matter will entertain faster burning, and in turn potentially burn the dmt.

My opinion is that herbs should be cut by hand to medium sized bits so that they would burn slower, as desired with dmt.

I know Caapi leaf to be a fast burner anyway, so varying a little herb in the mix is not such a bad idea.

Ime you probably got overwhelmed from too much-too fast changa Glad you rode it out And great thing that you were able to learn something out of this endeavour.

As Nereus said, accuracy can really come in handy in such cases e.g carefully measured doses of a blend, made with carefully measured ingredients.

Just my 2 cents..

Lumina, thanks for your input.

I pulverized my Caapi leaves but only into small pieces, not into powder. Next time the pieces will be a bit larger.

I sure got a colossal blow from the changa. But I am still wondering why nothing happened within the first five minutes after finishing the first bowl. How long does it take you to perceive any effects after inhaling your changa?

Accuracy is important when dosing. From all information gathered on this changa section I concluded that by itself Caapi leaves are not so potent. In general, it is said to contain a small amount of effective substances. That’s why I did not prepare 10 x Caapi for the first try out. Caapi leaves are powerful, no question about it.

Sounds like a forced hyperspace entry. Happens with burnt spice all the time.

The delayed onset could've happened partly because harmalas delay the come up of the experience, while the other thing responsible for the delay could be the onset of oxidised dmt. Burnt dmt (oxidised) usually has a much slower onset than the non burnt alkaloid.

You did have all the chances there to burn your actives since your ratio is well over 50% alks. Makes it very alk heavy, exposing them to a lot of heat and possible faster degradation.

Reverse tolerance could also play a role here, but it's just my guess.

As for the Caapi leaves, yes, they're powerful on their own, or at least powerful enough to make a difference when smoked prior or together with the spice. Caapi & dmt though, that's always a magical encounter... baffles me too



Not as instant as with pure spice, but not very delayed either. A lot depends on the amount and method. A larger cone will prolly hit faster and much harder. Whilst smaller cones will be smoother and softer, in combination with harmalas they would always add up to build nice effects too. My fav. has to be the latter.

All this dialog is bringing up a question in my mind.

I had read about the 10x Caapi Leaf concentration, and made a modification - I made it a 20x concentration.

I haven't tried it at all yet.

What are some options? Any of the following?

1 - Measure a specific amount of the 20x and smoke that in the bong? Then follow-up with freebase DMT in the GVG?

2 - Mix in some DMT with the 20x, and bong it?

3 - Use the GVG to vaporize some of the 20x, either before vaping DMT or mixing them together?

I appreciate any comments, especially if details such as measurements and timings are suggested.

Thanks.

You could have some plain 20x beforehand (predose), followed by some more 20x in between which you could sandwich your tryptamine.

I can't comment much on the use of the GVG, but it's worth giving it a try with some of that 20x. In case it works nicely I'd go with that just as described above.

Cool. Thanks. I’ll give it a go.

Last update for what it is worth. I made a new batch of enhanced Caapi leaves. This time I took 1 gram of pulverized Caapi leaves and impregnated 1 gram free base DMT into it.

Two days later the alcohol was vaporized. I put the leaves on another dish for 'breathing' and further drying and noticed that there was almost no residu, not the same green sticky stuff on the dish as with my first try out, that is 0,65 gram DMT into 0,35 gram Caapi leaves.

I guess that 1 gram Caapi leaves can absorb 1 gram of spice, but that more spice is just too much.

Have you ever ran into limits when enhancing leaves?

in my opinion you get optimal results with changa by using low dmt and low harmalas content, and then smoke large quantities over a sustained perioid of time.

That is just my opinion though.

I always recommend people start with 1:1 DMT:caapi leaf changa, and move on from there.

That said, I have had a lot of fun with changa that was high haramala low dmt, low harmala high dmt, high harmala high dmt, but still think ill be sticking with lower strengths for the forseable future.

There is just something really nice about slowly, gently drifting on changa. everyone has to try it at least once.