`Hey Family`
So, I had a lil online exchange with someone recently about extracting and converting to DMT-oxide out of preference for it, or yellow crystals. I've heard subjective info on the differences, but my question is "Do people extract for the purpose of conversion to D-oxide? And is it done with peroxide?" Anybody with experience or tek knowledge, please, your input is appreciated!

Love and Light

What preferences were mentioned please?

Successful Conversion of DMT to DMT oxide: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=23362

DMT N-oxide analysis: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=29425

Zn-experiment lab notes: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=7994

There are a lot of nuances this, it's hard to explain without having a good read through these posts IMO.

Hey thanks Orion! I'll check those out and respond properly.

You actually want DMT-oxide? I don't get it ?

No, Bear, I don't. Someone else said they preferred it because it wasn't so intense for them... there were other things said, but truthfully, I don't care for it or want to turn my pretty white flakes yellow!!

Has your friend ever heard of changa ? The thought of someone turning their dmt into oxide makes me kind of angry lol..

yeah, so she says she likes that its less intense than n,n- ... I'm not sayin she's "well" in the head, so maybe that's all she can handle. That sounds mean, but I'm sincere in that MAYBE she shouldn't be doing strong drugs.

Depends how the supposed DMT n-oxide was obtained in the first place. As far as I can tell it can only be obtained by either pulling with a not so selective solvent (light naphtha won't do it) or by having it oxidize after it has been freebased. That can happen in solution before it is pulled by reacting with oxygen after being freebased or can oxidize in the air with improper storage, but this takes quite some time.

I'm curious as to how your friend knew it was in fact DMT n-oxide in the first place? Not saying it wasn't, but it seems that most of the time the yellow colour is due to traces of bark particles and minuscule amounts of plant oils when the extraction was performed with a typical A/B or STB kitchen tek. I believe there are a few components that can become mixed with naphtha that are not actually very soluble in it, if at all. I couldn't say for sure what they are.

Another thing worth a mention is related to the fact that less selective solvents can pull oxides after they formed in the base soup, after freebasing. Does this not mean that the subjective reports with 'jungle spice' (the kind pulled with less selective solvents) having different effects have some merit ? Some have said it is quite different, some have said it is merely dirty DMT. I wonder if a good percentage of those who say it is different were the ones who left some freebased DMT to oxidize in the base soup, knowingly or not, and then extracted it and ended up smoking some oxides after all... ?

What's wrong with DMT-N-oxide?


And contrary to the claims that it's milder than DMT, I've also heard that it's stronger (on a per-mg-basis). So we can conclude that we don't really know much about this molecule, experientially.

Some thoughts:

In nature it occurs more in leaf sources as there's obviously more exposure to oxygen there.

We'd need to look at redox potentials to understand whether it's likely that interconversion between the N-oxide and the amine will occur during extraction conditions.

DMT-N-oxide can cyclise fairly readily to form 2-methyl tetrahydrobetacarboline - another molecule we don't really know much about. In a closely related reaction, it can eliminate a molecule of formaldehyde to yield NMT.

It seems likely to me that the ratios of these molecules in a given (taken!) hit of DMT vapour could be highly variable. We need to hitch up a GVG to GCMS and get that machine high have a proper look at what might be going on.

Possibly true, but since the natural form of DMT is a salt, would it make a difference ? As far as I can tell it needs to be already freebased before it can oxidize. I think the position where the oxygen atom would bond is already used up in this form.

I hear it's a milder, darker experience. I'm sure a lot of people on here have smoked old dmt and if they preferred it they wouldn't bother putting it in a vial or baggie lol. I don't think it's a good idea to destroy dmt just because you can't handle it. Sure you could convert it back but how many people are actually going to do that? Wouldn't it be a better idea to buy a scale and smoke smaller doses? Wouldn't it be a better idea to try changa before doing something like this ? Honestly if I seen someone do this I would never talk to them again .. In my opinion it's freaking stupid but do what you want...

I dont think it is that black & white RB. Think about research chemicals. There are a huge variety of different tryptamines with different effect profiles. When you start looking at subjective effects things seem to vary to a large degree between people & what one user finds unpleasant another may enjoy & seek out.

I think oxides are worth separating & exploring on their own. Think about harmalas. Harmine, harmaline, & thh all play a role in the experience that occurs when used to activate tryptamines & or just to produce their own effects. How certain are we that combinations of N,N-DMT, oxides, & different harmalas in different ratios dont produce an experience that suits some purpose or some personal tastes better than just plain DMT?

The way different substances synergize to create a unique experience is IMO a very real & very important factor & with the scientific knowledge & ease of sharing information we have now it seems like a major benefit to be able to tailor each experience to ones own needs.