Taking 3-4 grams of Syrian rue seeds can cause hallucinations and stimulant effects. Syrian rue is LIKELY UNSAFE when taken by mouth in high doses. Serious side effects affecting the nervous system, heart, liver, and kidneys, as well as death, have been reported in people who consumed high amounts of Syrian rue seeds.
SYRIAN RUE: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD
https://www.webmd.com/vi...yrian%20rue.aspx?...1516

That link is broken.

Regardless i doubt syrian rue is toxic at the dosages commonly used. It has been used as a medicine for thousands of years & i believe the few reports i have read of hospitilization even at doses as high as 100g the individual ends up recovering as the effects wear off & being perfectly fine.

Thats not to say that taking massive doses is not causing some mild toxicity but you also have to take into account that at large doses harmine, harmaline & probably some other alkaloids from the plant will very likely cause not just MAO-A inhibition but also MAO-B inhibition & so dietary restrictions become much more important & may result in some level of toxcicity if care is not taken.

If the correct precautions are taken & one understands how to properly utilize rue & harmalas at different dosage ranges the risk should be minimal. That should go for most medicines though.

Syrian Rue is not toxic at dosages used. I've used up to 10 grams of seed before, didn't notice any toxic effects, though i did notice some tremoring and body trembling along with a heavy heavy body load, but if you stick to the recommended dosages of say 3 to 4 grams of Rue seed, you'll be absolutely fine. The only thing about Rue is that pregnant women shouldn't take it because certain alkaloids in Rue can induce an abortion/miscarriage, but it's not toxic. I think anything above 10 grams isn't necessary and is just asking for trouble, not necessarily gonna be toxic, but definitely don't need more than 10 grams imo/ime.

Also as far as MAO-B inhibition from larger dosages goes, i've taken large/heavy dosages of Rue seed and extracts pretty regularly since 2012, even daily for 8 months, didn't notice any dietary interactions. Like i said, so long as you don't go over 10 grams or so, you should be absolutely fine.

Also Rue/Harmalas have a reverse tolerance, so the more they're consumed regularly (like a few times a week, to daily) the dose will get stronger each time and once it's gotten a bit too strong you can back the dosage down a little bit and continue on, then back the dosage down a bit more when it gets too strong again, continue on, and so on. Eventually you'll only need a little bit of Rue or Harmalas for a full dose, and in doing so, cleans up how the Rue seed feels because the Harmala content is stronger but the other compounds in the seed are in lower amounts with the reverse tolerance so it feels cleaner. Also the reverse tolerance cleans up the side-effect profile, does away with the nausea/vomiting/diarrhea and cleans up the body load as well as the motor function impairment and things just feel better and more tolerable.

The only practical danger of syrian rue in the context of this community would be mixing it with drugs.
Folks here tend to use 3-5 grams, as thats all thats needed. Nine grams is a common medicinal dose in iran. People have taken FAR more and been fine.

Take the case of an iranian man who, while being treated for opium addiction, got food poisoning from eating a kilogram of sheeps testicles and decided to cure that with 150 grams of P. harmala. Once the intoxication passed the only harm was an ulcer he got from swallowing the seeds!
Peganum harmala, less dangerous than sheep testicles.

starway6 you might want to check out this paper : Pharmacological and therapeutic effects of Peganum harmala and its main alkaloids

Ive had one and a half gram doses in tea many times without any problems at all.. ..i was just wondering when does the dose get dangerous..

because making assertions like this below sounds a little scary..


... Serious side effects affecting the nervous system, heart, liver, and kidneys, as well as death, have been reported in people who consumed high amounts of Syrian rue seeds.


just wondered... [what they mean by high amounts]?/ maybe it was because they used something else with the rue that reacted with it...?

Ive had one and a half gram doses in tea many times without any problems at all.. ..i was just wondering when does the dose get dangerous..

because making assertions like this below sounds a little scary..


... Serious side effects affecting the nervous system, heart, liver, and kidneys, as well as death, have been reported in people who consumed high amounts of Syrian rue seeds.


just wondered... [what they mean by high amounts]?/ maybe it was because they used something else with the rue that reacted with it...?

I've also at times regularly drunk doses up to 5g's and never noticed anything that wasn't just the psychological effects of the harmalas themselves, I think it's important to remember that many people aren't even good at separating their psychology from their physical self whilst sober (think hypochondriac) so all this anecdotal information about side effects is likely to be just that.

I'm pretty sure that many of the 'toxic' effects reported from ingesting rue would diminish if people stopped so readily describing rues effects as toxic and thus priming people to perceive them that way, also over dosing on harmalas is a very uncomfortable experience and people seem to forget how much more concentrated rue is in regards to it's harmalas compared to Caapi so many of the toxic reports are also likely just experiences in dosing too high.

I personally have had one of the most physically uncomfortable experiences of my life with the inability to purge from Caapi and have never had this problem with rue

I have another question if anyone knows the answer...

To my understanding rue alcaloids temporarily blocks the action of enzimes in the blood that would normally attack the DMT molecules and shorten the experiance...

I guess this is a good thing to allow the dmt to work better....

But my question is .......

Are the enzimes that attack the dmt molecule part of the human imune system that also protects us

from catching the flu?.. [or are these enzimes a diferent entity from the ones that protect us from the flu virus?/

.[concidering] that the H3N2 flu bug is right now in 2018 killing children and

adults in the usa and effecting other countrys as well...a VERY NASTY!.. hard to control miserable flu virus!

Would taking rue do anything to harm our or imune defence against the flu???

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.../PMC3841998/#sec1-8title

google is your friend

-dm

A bit out of subject but what about harmane/harman? On wikipedia it says peganum harmala contains 0.16% harman which is a neurotoxin that causes essential tremor
Looking here on the nexus it's mentioned few times but nothing certain

Endlessness says that it doesn't show up in the GC-MS analysis of rue extracts but looking at the small peak for the 2% harmine would the 0.16% harman show up clearly on the graph? Also as he said many of the phytochemical analysis done on peganum harmala do not mention harman but only as a reference for measurements, but the reference paper on the wiki clearly says that they do contain harman(0.16%)
Other foods contain it like coffee and meat.. also it's present in tobacco smoke but it doesn't seem too worrying

So anyone knows if it gets picked up in the common A/B rue extraction with manske. And in any case does the 0.16% present any toxicity with common rue doses?

Many thanks

No. The immune system is something decidedly different.


Just to reframe that notion a bit.