Ok so swim and his friend took drank 1:1 thh 150mg in oj. After feeling the affects took 3g each of acrb powdered in oj. Now swim had no visuals except for the ceiling being extremely defined. His friend has visuals but only lasted 45 minutes. Now they were assured the acrb was 2% potent. And that if they took even 5g would be a ego death.they were told that They didn't take even the and that 3g is a heavy dose. They don't know what went wrong. Swim did say he felt refreshed the day after. Almost like his bio chemistry had been rearranged after he went to bed. Please take into consideration that they never did ayahuasca before but experimented with dmt shrooms and cid. Thanks for the help in advance.

THH is not an MAO-A inhibitor, it's a weak Serotonin reuptake inhibitor, you need Harmine/Harmaline (extracts, Syrian Rue, B. Caapi) or Moclobemide, for the MAO-A inhibition, and then about 10 to 30 minutes or so later, take the Acacia, idk if 3 to 4 grams would be enough for a full on experience, but 4 to 8 grams of Acacia should be fine. Also you probably wanna use either an Acacia tea or make a residue from the root powder, ingesting the root powder can still work but sometimes it doesn't absorb right and it's rougher on the stomach.

Your ayahuasca did not work because it was no ayahuasca, aya has Caapi as a main course. Things have names and what you drank is no ayahuasca, an analog, anahuasca or pharmahuasca.

SS is right about thh not working as sufficient maoi. But I count 8 gr seeds for the rue atheletes, not me 4 is good enough.

hi jeradicate,

next time try 4 g of syrian rue seeds tea or crushed and swallowed with the tea and 5/6 g of acacia powder left in the orange juice for at least 30 min

ayahuasca is commonly psychotria viridis and banisteriopsis caapi brewed and drank togheder while what you do as jees said was some kind of confusahuasca but with wrong maoi...
thanks because this thread remembered me about the low MAOI effects about THH even if there was a thread in the forum that speculate that the effects of the ayahuasca was given by the simultaneus effects of thh and harmine/harmaline ratio in the caapi that is different in the sirian rue and as a consecuence a different effect of the brew.

I view all this stuff as Ayahuasca, i view the Harmalas themselves as Ayahuasca. If i use Rue, i call it Ayahuasca, i don't care, it's all the same to me.

There have been several threads on this topic. Some of them even contain posts worth reading

I know, i've read them, still doesn't change my opinion. I view the different Harmala-containing plants simply as different flavors of the same kind of medicine, which i call Ayahuasca. People may get all pissy over the name of the concoction, but i just talk about the plants involved, but i call it all Ayahuasca, because for me the Harmalas are what causes the "Ayahuasca Effect", which is different than oral DMT with Moclobemide, Harmine and Harmaline imo are what primarily makes it Ayahuasca, other plant constituents add to it and create unique flavors but at the end of the day, the Harmalas are Ayahuasca, imo. Rue is fine, Caapi is fine, any other Harmala-containing plant capable of activating oral DMT is fine, they're all useful, none are better than the other, they just have different flavors and while Caapi may feel better than Rue, Rue still gets the job done, make no mistake, therefore, embrace all the plants no matter your preferences, whatever you call it doesn't matter, Harmalas and DMT in any form is good medicine. Plus there's admixture plants that can be added to the mix, further adding to things and creating unique flavors of the medicine/experience, it's all still Ayahuasca to me, just different flavors.

Caapi to me isn't Ayahuasca, Caapi is Caapi, Rue is Rue, Harmine is Harmine, Harmaline is Harmaline, but the Harmalas are what i see as Ayahuasca, not the specific plant, Ayahuasca is just a label, i focus more on the plants used rather than the label, but i lump it all, Ayahuasca, Anahuasca, Pharmahuasca, etc, under the label Ayahuasca. I've had this conversation many times with people on here and elsewhere, people have their opinions/views, but i like to be specific and refer to the plants, especially since the label Ayahuasca includes traditional and non-traditional plants and preparations. People may wanna split things into different categories, and that's fine, but i lump it all under the main category of Ayahuasca, especially since that's the main label used that has the most information and research attached to it, compared to the label Anahuasca or Pharmahuasca. Plus there's many different admixture plants, traditional and non-traditional, that can be added to Ayahuasca and similar potions that in themselves can change/alter/flavor the overall medicine/experience, and yet it still falls under the same label/category of Ayahuasca, even though they are different flavors of the same kind of medicine. So yes, technically, i call it all Ayahuasca, and i see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

It's all about the THH. Apparently.

Yeah, ayahuasca is the label modern Western society has popularly chosen to represent a (usually plant) brew containing DMT to be orally activated by harmine or/and harmaline. So it now means what it means. Anything else is etymology.

It is the ayahuasca effect that counts. If it didn't work, people wouldn't do it.

The effects of combining even non-ayahuasca plants can be quite subtly remarkable, however - but that's another topic entirely.

I agree. I haven't had much in the way of THH except for the few times i've taken Caapi by itself, but i do hear good things about THH, i just wonder what all THH itself does, like what other effects it may have besides weak Serotonin reuptake inhibition. I wish people would sell pure THH so i could get my hands on some, i may try to make my own sometime or another if i can since reading about it here on the Nexus awhile back, if it does indeed work. Which btw, does anyone know if THH comes out in freebased Caapi vine extractions? I extracted some vine once before and i got a few doses out of it, but had the Rue/Harmala reverse tolerance built up at the time so it was kinda difficult to sense, but i know i felt the Harmine for sure. I still have much more work to do in the future/near future hopefully, i'm currently still integrating and changing/working on some things from my previous work with this stuff, but i am definitely looking forward to getting back to it as well as trying out different combos.

with the same concept you can call "cocacola" a coffee just because it has some caffeine in it and both are stimulant but no baby, IMHO names are important as well you can't call mezcalero any mescaline containing cactus wich is not the same if you get peyote or a san pedro (mainly for the cultures wich done this as a sacrement or as a guide for their lives) i think that there are some differences between a big dose of peganum harmala or a big dose of banisteriopsis in wich are involved the difference ratio between harmine and harmaline.
i don't know if the THH is the key or just the different ratio of alks but what i felt between a changa i made with rue extracted alks in full spectrum, harmine dominant and harmaline dominant are different one by each other and i think in the same way a changa made with caapi alks will be pretty different; i wouldn't say totally different but a way more...complete, is not the right term to describe it... i would mean...if you belive in sacred plants you belive in the spirit of the plants so i will never call ayahuasca something that is not. pharmahuasca, mimosahuasca, asyouwanthuasca
in fact ayahuasca means "vine of the spirits" and as well syrian rue is not a vine i think you should reconsiderate how to call it and maybe you just get the right effects from what you take.

have a nice day!

Rue has its merits but not superficially. That is because most people take rue harmine+harmaline in ratio as it comes in the seeds, the most convenient way of course. Only when you succeed to separate, and tune the hamaline ratio down, then suddenly it becomes a MASTER blend that for my liking exceeds harmine+THH. Tame down harmaline to 50 mg and have her beauty. Just like a Mozart piece of music that gets painfully wrong when played too loud. Vine is easier and sounds well on any level.

I hear ya and i agree. I've added some extra Harmine to the Rue on a few occasions and it's definitely felt better with a more balanced ratio of Harmine to Harmaline. Rue definitely has potential, and i wonder if there may be anything to influence it's alkaloid composition like harvest time or different climates/regions or maybe different lighting or nutrients/precursors or something, i feel like it's possible to have a more Harmine-dominant Rue seed.

Also i've noticed on several occasions that Rue feels a lot better when it's able to be used at about 2 grams or so, with the reverse tolerance built up so that the Harmala (Harmine/Harmaline) content is strong but the other compounds in the seed is lower than the actual dose would be without the reverse tolerance, and as a result it feels cleaner and more appropriate i would say, feels like the reverse tolerance is a good way to go with the Rue. But still, balancing out the Harmaline with the Harmine i think will really help the Rue shine. Also adding other plants to the Rue helps it to shine as well, Lemon Balm really helped to clean up how the Rue felt for me, i liked it, there's a lot of potential in different plant mixtures i feel.

i think that if you feel better with harmine dominant blends you should extract same quantities of caapi and rue, try to do it the more similar you can and then weight out the extracted alks and do maths

you separate the harmine from harmaline in both and you compare the ratio in vine to the one in rue and with a simple math you can make a vine compound similar alk ratio that IMHO will be not exactly the same as using the vine itself.

it definitely worth a try!

Yeah i like the idea of Pharmahuasca, but i like the idea of using Caapi and Rue plant or extract blends more, like using enough Rue to inhibit MAO-A a good bit and then add as much Caapi as you want. I've extracted from Caapi once before doing a full spectrum extract like i do with Rue and then mixed a bit in with some Rue and it worked out nicely, i definitely like the Rue better with more Harmine, and perhaps some THH in the mix, but definitely Harmine. Don't get me wrong though, i love Rue, Harmaline and all, but i also love that we can tweak things around and alter things to our liking.

Welcome Jeradicate. could not have said it better than Shamensstamen and Jees myself. Some tips on real Ayahuasca can be found here on post #267:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...osts&t=1363&p=15

There is highly active ornamental Hawaiian psychotria out there in dreams right now that is very exceptional at just 15g, with 20g being the strong limit. Accidentaly dreamed with 35g the other week in dreams with real caapi only and it was way, way too strong for 90 minutes, all could do was sit still for 1.5 hour and keep eyes closed in an attempt to slow down the visions/visuals (and they can be slowed down to a crawl with concentration) because with eyes open the whole place fills with fluorescent colors & visions, beauty is to the nth power, but too much leaf or light can be frightening in a mental sense as all sense of ego is lost and she holds on to you with a fine grip, difficult to describe, but it's definately not something you want to repeat...ended up there about 4 times in the past and once recently due to accidentaly using too much leaf.

Found 18g in dreams mixed in with good caapi (always taken mixed together in a 2oz reduced hot brew form at the exact same time) to be very exceptional however 2 weeks before that, just heavenly moderate strength experience with beautiful closed eye visions, open eyed beauty is still to the nth power just no frightening state as it's more controllable, music is beautiful, and there is most always a spirit guide seen (Mother Aya in beautiful female form) or sensed with closed eyes who helps guide the experience. Try not to overshoot your dream or it could be challenging for 90 minutes...best thing to do if this happens is to close eyes and meditate into a happy place and not move an inch (moving triggers hundreds of new visuals) so that a focused & calm place can be found....it goes down in strength several notches after about 60 minutes to 80 minutes later.

One of the best feelings from the dream experience is that of feeling as if one has finally arrived home & encountering the divine. Beauty is unique in that it has the power to reveal to us humans the existence of an ideal world beyond the world of sense. This, in turn, is a prime source for happiness. These feelings and insights are very common under the Ayahuasca intoxication.

From Benny Shanon:

Traditional Ayahuasca is considered to be Caapi + Psychotria (no barks or chaliponga) by the UDV, Santo Daime and Shuar Indian, and Callaway analyzed some 29 long cooked brews and found an average ratio of thh to harmalas of 1:1 see below:

https://catbull.com/alam...in%20aya%20decoction.pdf

Jeradicate, a typical Aya brew was analyzed in Dr. Callaway's paper to be around 200mg harmine, nearly the same amount of thh, and trace amounts of harmaline. Around 200mg of harmine or 100mg of harmaline would be needed for full on RIMA produced inhibition. THH has virtually no RIMA activity despite what 69ron had posted in the past, it is extremely weak (had the ref along time ago) something like 100mg of thh would have the RIMA power of only around 10mg of harmine, but does have mild ssri activity.

https://catbull.com/alam...in%20aya%20decoction.pdf

In Table 1 in the linked paper, just multiply each figure x 100 to get the actual amount in the brew since the brew analyzed was 100ml.

For example,

entry #1 from UDV is 183mg tetrahydroharmine, 9mg harmaline, 172mg harmine.

entry #14 from UDV is 181mg tetrahydroharmine, 23mg harmaline, 196mg harmine.

entry #18 from UDV is 163mg tetrahydroharmine, 30mg harmaline, 180mg harmine.

entry #29 from Shuar Indian is 163mg tetrahydroharmine & 180mg harmine.

Would be awesome, but for that one better live in the regions where it grows naturally. There is a rue guy at ayahuasca forum living in Turkey and it grows there, he specialized himself into rue, saying: different with the Iranian rue we usually get. He also experimented with harvest timings, he even used very young seeds (IIRC he did not continued to use those).
The roots I believe contain no (aprox) harmaline to speak of, but using seeds is more sustainable, easier,..cheap above all, what a gift that is, just think about it
Suppose all rue users would went to vine it would create a distribution crisis.

Yeah that's one reason i use Rue, it's cheap, potent, more consistent/reliable and it's renewable/sustainable, makes me wonder what people are gonna do if the Caapi vine gets scarce/rare in the time to come due to increase in demand/popularity. I think it's a good thing to search out all possible Harmala-containing plants and use them if we can.

I know the person Jees talks about, and he is a great writer and love reading his reports. ShamansStamen makes a great point, however, at the rate the Amazon forest is currently being deforested, the Jungle will be deforested long before Caapi becomes extinct, as there are private farms for caapi all over South America and in Hawaii. The bigger problem is the rapid depletion of trees and plants in the Amazon, this has been written about in several articles at Ayahuasca.com. The natives in the rainforest are being paid by the Government to clear the trees and raise cattle instead, along with the gold mining and other forms of modern ideas. I tend to believe that Rue was most likely SOMA as written about in the excellent book "Haoma" which you can read all of free on-line. I keep an open mind always...

I am just more of a traditionalists compared to many others as I follow the UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian writings and traditions. In many ways, similar to Benny Shanon as only dream caapi & psychotria, similar to Shanon who used caapi + psychotria for all of his 150+ sessions written about in his book "antipodes of the mind", had bought the book the week it came out years ago, it is the "Traditional Ayahuasca Bible" in a sense. There is nothing wrong with using non-traditional methods as this has been written about by the Australian writer Julian Palmer in "Articulations, on the utilisation and meanings of psychedelics". I just only follow methods proven safe and reliable by thousands of years of Shamanic tradition, found it works well in dreams and results in the same kind of visions written about in Shanon's book, so couldn't ask for anything more. We are all different, so each one must find his own path traditional or not, it's up to you.

From a two Dr. study some years ago:

The lower the number, the stronger:

------------MAO-A--------MAO-B--------

harmaline---2.5 nM-------- 25 uM

harmine-----2.0 nM-------- 20 uM

thh----------74 nM-------- >100 uM