Greetings,

I'm new here. Hi! (And a Trekkie who wants to explore his own final frontiers.) I am planning a DMT journey of breakthrough, ego-loss, and complete exploring-of-the-cosmos, and need some love and advice from the experienced folks here.

(Some assuring, loving words would be nice, as -- to be honest -- I'm somewhat terrified.)

First, I'm no stranger LSD, but with DMT I'm practically a newbie. LSD and I get along because I get to maintain control. Now, I want (need) to go further. I can tolerate up to 1000ug of LSD quite well with 600ug being my sweet spot. Yet, I never feel like it takes me far enough into the cosmos. I have so much more to learn, and have never before experienced ego death or gone beyond the veil to visit spirits, other dimensions, and the great beyond while on any psychedelic.

I want to visit other dimensions, speak with kind spirits, have conversations with angels, with God, and truly travel to the many places and parts of this wild and crazy universe that will help me to understand, grow, and truly explore the unknown.

I want this so much. I seek to connect with existence on a much higher level, which is why I'm here. I am planning a DMT journey soon with a form of jungle spice called "Desert Sand" with many of the alkaloids from the Jurema left intact.

As an asthmatic, it's necessary to do oral administration, so my plan is this:
1) Prepare DMT Citrate by putting the "Desert Sand" into lemon juice. (Or DMT phosphate by putting it into Coca Cola.)
1) Take 150-300mg of Moclobemide 1 1/2 hours before the DMT.
2) Take 75mg of Moclobemide 30 mins before the DMT.
3) Orally consume the DMT (Citrate or Phosphate).

Many years ago, I attempted a self-made 'huasca journey using Mimosa Hostilis root bark and Syrian Rue seeds. The whole situation made me so sick, weak, and horrible before even consuming the actual tannin-filled shot-glass-sized dose of boiled down root bark, that the experience was terrifying and traumatic. My mood frightened, and everything seemed menacing, as a result of feeling sick.

I puked so much, my body was weakened even more, and I thought the Amazon gods were trying to kill me. I screamed a lot, and a lot of unfortunate Christian metaphors and allegories came alive in the worst possible ways.

I was terrified that I would stop breathing, and kept panicking trying to take breaths. Yet, I was always stuck at that edge... I never had ego death, and never really "broke through" any barriers.

It took years for me to get the guts to come back to DMT and even bother to try it again. This time, I'm trying it under conditions that might be more conducive to a good trip: Pure pharmaceuticals (Moclobomide, and close-to-perfectly refined Desert Sand) that won't make me feel like I am sick with the flu the whole time.

This is my starting point. However I still need advice.

1) How can I do this so I'm not terrified? I'm not terrified on higher doses of LSD because I feel very much in control. That was not the case when I tried 'huasca before. I don't want to panic and feel like I'm not breathing. Part of me even wonders, to this day, if my sleep apnea will kick in and I won't breath anymore after achieving ego-loss, because my body will cease to kick itself into high-gear and gasp when necessary. It's probably just an unnecessary worry, but still, it scares the crap out of me, and because of that it's likely to emerge in the trip.

2) Am I better off taking a higher dosage to get launched into the breakthrough with less of the "borderline area" terror I experienced before? I mean, is it better to avoid a trip of permanent purgatory, and just go sky high?

3) What dosage do you prefer to get to the highest places? Because that's where I want to go. I want the experience to be memorable and useful, but I want to go extremely far. I want to see God; I want to travel to other dimensions. I want a useful teacher, and a mind-opening blast-off that has never happened before.

Don't get me wrong: I'm after the something extraordinary-- not some visuals, or feelings like I'm walking through wonderland.

I'm after real, significant travel.

4) So, what dose would you recommend for oral consumption on Moclobemide?


Thanks a lot.

With love,

I think you have build up quite a bit of tolerance for LSD, if you can handle 1000 micrograms. There was a period where i used to take LSD a couple of times every month, for over several years. And at the end i could handle such quantities as well.

Then i didn't take LSD for a couple of years, and if i take acid now, 300 micrograms will take me deeper than a 1000 ever did, back then.

So i don't know how this tolerance will affect the DMT experience, but i guess that there probably is SOME cross tolerance. I'm not a 100% sure, but if there is some, it may hold you back from realy breaking through.

Syrian ruee/mimosa brews are indeed notorious for creating projectile vomiting and so on.
I have no experience with moclobemide, but it is definately true that there are many other ways to ingest oral DMT, that are much nicer.

If you realy want to get as deep as possible, i would highly recommend taking LSD first, and then, at the peak, taking oral DMT in whatever form.

Good luck.

dont know much about Moclobemide but i would recommend not to mix LSD with a MAOI

And you have to let go, your body breaths by itself.. you have nothing to do there

The purge is a dying process...go and die then you will fly high

Why i have never had negative effects from this but i would normally use syrian rue and lsd.

so I am wondering if it has a negative reaction with maoi's and not with rima's?

LSD with harmala's is a fairly common combination, i think. I've done it plenty of times.

I don't know if all of the popular analogues are as safe as LSD itself, with harmala's though.

Taking phenethylamines (like mescaline or 2CB) with any kind of MAOI is realy dangerous, and some tryptamines (like AMT) are quite dangerous in combinationwith MAOI's as well. But The combination of LSD and harmala alks is pretty safe, and the same is true for shrooms.

I don't know what category of MAOI moclobemide falls under. But yes, better be safe than sorry.

Moclobemide is just fine, it's a RIMA just like Harmalas, i've taken it quite a bit, haven't mixed it with LSD though, yet. Does work well for activating oral DMT though.

I also have done LSD with harmalas and would never do it a second time and also never recommend it.
Even a small dose of acid was waaaaay too unpleasant. Not safe at all...maybe for some but no for all.

It was like serotonine-syndrom -seizure ...

And i have no probs with shrooms and harmalas.

Well, you could also try a very large amount of shrooms, sometimes refered to by McKenna followers as a 'heroic dose'.

Wow - combining LSD and DMT?

1) First big question: Do people who use this combo come back normal ...? I mean, I don't want to be one of those people partially "gone" and awkward forever. (See: Ozzy Osbourne, Terence McKenna-- both brilliant but kinda in outer space.) I mean, have you tried this, or have others successfully consumed this combo without losing their marbles? I'm intrigued, and am actually considering this, as I'm after a profound experience.

2) What dosages of this combo lead to the most success? I ask, because anything combined with LSD tends to intensify the experience dramatically. Do low does work best? (Like, 100-250ug LSD with 35-50mg DMT?) Would I be off-base combining 400-600ug of LSD with 100mg of DMT orally as a higher dose? (Is too much horrifying or simply a better trip?)

3) I did some research after your recommendation, and the trip reports out there are from people who smoked the DMT at the peak of their LSD trips and had 15 minutes of this outer-space interdenominational intensity. If these reports of 15-minute segments of craziness are any indication, it's pretty wild. Has anybody actually experienced HOURS of this intensity? (Has anyone done this combo orally before -- MAOI+LSD+DMT?)

4) Some people report the combo is somehow calmer and more even-- that it takes away some of the potential terror from the DMT trip. (My past experience with DMT was pretty terrifying.) Do you know this to be true or not? I really don't want a terrifying trip, guys.

5) What's the potential for triggering HPPD on this combo? I'm prone to a bit of this and have to go on LSD breaks and take stuff like Oxiracetam/Noopept/Mucuna Pruriens, etc, to mitigate it. Does going this deep or this heavy potentially lead to heavier neurological issues?


Interesting conversation around this. Thanks for your thoughts, and I invite anyone who has tried this combo or knows something to chime in.

This sounds dangerous... I would like some more input from others on this before trying a Moclobemide-LSD-DMT oral combo. Is there a real potential for this kind of unpleasantness combining a MAOI with LSD??? I know DragonRider mentioned having done the harmalas with LSD. What's that like?

It's a while since i've done this combo. I must admit that all of the times i've done it, there was a phase that was quite terrifying. If you take it toghether, the come-up is extremely intense, and it does feel a bit as if your mind is melting (wich is why it is better to take the LSD first and wait for it to work, and then decide how much deeper you want to go).
On a couple occasions, i experienced quite a bit of body load during the first half of the experience. Sitting up felt realy uncomfortable.

But the thing is that on all occasions, this combination never failed to impress. Even though at some point you kind of know what to expect. It can be pretty intimidating during the come-up, because it seems like there's just no end to the rabbit hole. But if you manage to let go, and not be afraid, it realy is amazing.
Every single time, i remember asking myself "is this even possible?".

It only is calmer when you wait for the LSD to peak. The come-up of both the LSD and the ayahuasca toghether, realy is a lot tougher.

The best way to do it, is to take a dose of LSD that's interesting enough by itself. Then, when you're peaking, you first take the harmala's or MAOI of choice, wait for five minutes or so, and then take the quantity of DMT you feel you're comfortable with at that point.
There's always a short period of sheer intimidation. I personally find that ayahuasca always has a kind, benign sort of feel to it, but that doesn't mean that it can't be terrifying at the same time. It always does feel a bit like being swallowed whole.

But at some point you do reach a sort of equilibrium with the stuff, it seems. The rabbit hole ends. That's when you have the time to just take in the beauty that surrounds you. And you keep asking yourself how something like this is even possible in the first place.

I find this a more gentle way of breaking through on oral DMT, than ayahuasca by itself.

I don't know about HPPD. If you're sensitive to it, maybe you shouldn't do it, but i don't think that DMT by itself is any more forgiving than this combo.

I like to dose with harmalas and DMT on the tail end of LSD. It really takes that post-peak anxiety away and smooths the whole experience, for me. Probably around hour 8 I dose ~150mg of harmalas and then wait half an hour to bring out the bong. A series of bumps on the changa is just a delight at that point.

Knowing when to stop is a bit of an art though.

I'm a little confused. If you want to go as far as possible why don't you just smoke it?

Breaking through on traditional aya is indeed rough physically, but harmalas do give their own psychoactive twist to it which moclobemide lacks, so if you're for the authentic aya experience you'll have to take the good (entity contant, universal connection) and the bad (vomiting, diarrhea, and other flu and food poisoning-like symptoms). By the time you get to this point you won't worry about the body load since metaphysically you'll be dead already, it's something that will bother you before and after though.

It was worth it for me, but I don't know if this is quite what you're looking for. In order for aya to be different from shrooms it has to be harmala-hefty. This way aya becomes a whole another beast. The harmalas give it a dreamy and story-telling twist, but are also unfortunately the root of bad body loads.

When I brewed my brews just to have enough MAOIs only to orally activate the DMT, my trips aside from the duration (shorter) and a worse body load they were pretty much indistingishable from mushrooms. So if this is what you're looking for, I'm gonna be straight up and save you the money. Grow your own boomers, since with oral DMT like this you're just making a synthetic, shorter and more expensive version of the real deal. High enough doses of shrooms already feel like an extended version of the smoked DMT experience.

Of coarse you might still want to experiment and see for yourself the differences between shrooms, aya, smoked DMT, changa, pharma and it's variations and that's up to you. It seems from your post that you were looking for something specific, and I wanted to save you some time.

Otherwise if you're certian you want this combination specifically, yes it will work, although you don't need to dose moclo twice. Once 30 min before in the 150-300mg range is just fine. As far as the DMT dosage there must be some test and trial since there are a lot of factors that could affect your sweet spot dosage. It depends on your sensitivity, body weight and possible cross tolerance.

Hope it helps.

Oh yeah... I forgot to mention...

Some of the users above sugested combining the oral DMT with LSD. I would advice against it untill you're plenty experienced with both on their own.

Smoking DMT while high on acid can be done more safely by beginers, but combining two oral psychedelics is best done if the user already experienced with both separatelly.

Yes, this is true for most forms of oral DMT. I said it earlier, you can just go for a high dose of shrooms, and you will have basically the same.

Point is though....there is not a single psychedelic under the influence of wich, ego-loss is an "easy" thing. Ego-loss is pretty scary, regardless of what everyone is saying.
There are many psychedelic substances on wich it can be achieved. But none of them will make it easy for you.

Your thoughtfulness and knowledge about all this is something I very much appreciate. After doing a bit of extra research, it sounds like almost everyone who tries this combo has had a glowing experience, and that a number describe LSD+DMT as the best trip of their lives.

In your experience, what is it like? How would you characterize your particular journey on the combo? Did you come back different? More healed? With greater understanding? It definitely sounds like you were in awe, and that you wondered "is this even possible?" I'm curious what (if it's even humanly describable) was so out-of-this world that you asked that of yourself?

To be very real: This whole thing is very frightening to me, but I'm too curious not to go down this rabbit hole and try. Doing LSD and DMT together sounds like a magical, built-for-each-other combo that reduces anxiety around jumping off that cliff of "dying" (more accurately, "thinking" you're dying on DMT) and creates an experience most people come back from with positive things to say.

I still don't know a good dose for using it orally, though. Usually with LSD, combining it with anything whatsoever dramatically influences the experience. (Often, unfortunately, in ways that aren't kind.)

So- My thinking for dosing my upcoming trip which I'll now be delaying about a month now:

420ug LSD + (wait 4 hours) 225 Moclobemide + (wait 30-45 mins) 100mg DMT taken orally. I'll definitely be taking your advice about waiting until the LSD peaks. (Maybe I should cut down the LSD to 240...?) Question: Will this be way too much to combine? If I'm asking, it probably is.... but want to hear it from those with more experience. I want a good experience-- not something that's going to leave me terrified. I also want a profound experience that won't disappoint. The trouble with oral consumption is that you have to make a lot of decisions ahead of time with little knowledge about how it will affect you, and I want to get this one just right-- especially given that it's worse to under-dose and be gasping for air terrified that you're dying stuck in the pre-breakthrough stage. (I speak, unfortunately, from that one crappy aborted ayahuasca experience years ago.)

Also, when going this deep, does set and setting have the same impact? Is what I encounter less impacted by surroundings at this point? Or perhaps moreso?

Also: The return -- It's pretty important to me that I don't fry the crap out of my brain or cause some PTSD. Did you come back fairly normal? (Relative, of course, given that profound journeys will change you by nature. ) I want a profound spiritual journey, but definitely don't want to lose what makes me "me" forever in the process.

Thanks again for the continued guidance.

Thanks. It consistently sounds like the combo is incredible at reducing anxieties around the more difficult stages of each trip. This is very interesting, and something I definitely could use given the terror I want to avoid . . . (And yeah, I'm sure it's bound to have some of that in any trip. If there's any way to ease it, however...)

Thanks. It's good to know there's no need to double-dip the moclobemide. I was only hoping to avoid a misfire.

The reason I won't smoke is because of asthma. Smoking stuff nearly puts me into respiratory shock and I spend several minutes gasping and, yeah, it's not fun. So, oral it is!

It's interesting that the harmalas add so much for you and others ...
Harmalas (specifcally Syrian Rue) and I definitely don't get along, or I'd totally be on-board with the more shamanistic experience involved. I don't think anyone really knows how horrifically unpleasant it is before jumping in, though. Removing that from the equation might actually make for a better experience than I had last time because, as I recounted above, it was all of the food poisoning symptoms, weakness, extreme nausea, terror, gasping for air, foaming at the mouth, wondering if I'm going to die, and constant vomiting without the out-of-body ego-death breakthrough. (Probably because I vomited too much out whilst trying my best to hold all it in. Nope!) It was definitely unforgettable...

To anyone else out there: The natural approach (Ayahuasca) is not for the faint of heart. I thought I could handle it, but it was so awful, I felt like I had seriously poisoned myself and paid dearly for what I got out of it. I feel I've paid my dues to the amazon gods in that respect, and am ready to move on from that and never deal with that ever again.

Interesting thought about shrooms being similar to DMT, though...

My spirit tells me to work with the DMT, so I'll be working with that, probably with the LSD. (And I don't have any shrooms now!)