Play fighting with people you absolutely love and trust is honestly really wonderful, but there have to be rules and limits. And that's not the same as hyper-violence at all.

I dont think any movie or videogame can be considered "real" violent.
Because its all fake.
Theres a differnce in emulating and actual violence.
Just like animals and humans play fighting for fun.
We are predatory. We dont have any real violence in our lives (at least in most first world countries)

We arent the only one that are violent for "fun"
Many animals including dolphins show violent behaviour without any use.
Killing prey /enemies for fun only.
We do it too. But mostly fake nowadays which is good.
Just imagine going out and recreating games like Postal for real.

Right, exactly. The distinction between having fun and actually hurting someone is important. Having a clear intent is quite necessary. Pain is essential to life and comes in various forms, however. It's how we manage and reflect on that pain that will either serve us or put us in a disservice to ourselves and others.

(Sometimes we have ended up hurting each other but with play fighting that's typically something you get to laugh about afterwards.)

It may not be appropriate for me to comment about video games as I have virtually no interest in them whatsoever, but it still strikes me that repeatedly viewing images of extreme violence on some level serves to make increased levels of violence more acceptable alongside creating a sense of detachment. Or is that just hollow opinion?

My level of violence is limited to killing flies in my kitchen - although I have been known to smash up furniture when really pissed off. Anger/rage needs its outlet, it can be very difficult (for me) to transform it sometimes. And sometimes I feel the decision to let rage out is an indulgence - this is surely cultural conditioning though. It's still possible to respond creatively after smashing up a table. Other circumstances could certainly be more difficult.

I'm reminded of an excerpt from Dale Pendell's Pharmakognosis:



My closing thought to this disjointed ramble is that there are more people on the earth than ever before so of course there is more violence. (The OP was talking about depictions through media though and my analysis of this matter is far from complete, on the whole because it's something I prefer to avoid watching.)

I think we are unguided as a species, To many question marks, It's made me realize that a lot of the world here has totally lost touch with itself. Let a child run loose with no supervision in a grocery store its going to raise totull hell.

One could argue that violence is in fact vital for our species survival, just like it is for all species... and that there are different types of violence aswell.
Life is violent, and nature is a violent force and has to be, wether it's diseases, earthquakes or conflicts of all kinds in order to maintain a balance, to the best of its abbilities.
We cannot keep on populating this planet with the current speed, an increase with 4.5 billion people year(s) 1900-2000... maybe just maybe we have evolved into a more violent, and/or nature has evolved this species this way ironically trying to preserve this human species. I don't know...

Also, I think we as a species always have enjoyed violence.. that is more (I think) a perversion than the violence used för example when hunting for food or trying to protect your family.
A good example is the Romans with their gladiator games...
That which is specifically human doesn' t represent our separation from nature, but is our nature.

I don't think that video games and violent films lead to brutality and sadism. I think that those traits come from a dysfunctional upbringing. Dysfunctional people like video games and violent films and well adjusted people also like them.

I do have questions for those that like violent video games. Where would you draw the line in regard to enjoying the game?
Is it ok to shoot aliens, nazis or terrorists in a video game, but how about a game that involved clubbing baby seals or shooting babies? Does it matter if nothing actually gets hurt? Or to take the concept further is it acceptable for a paedophile to have sex with a virtual reality child?

Also if you are a person that plays violent video games and it was scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are living in a simulation ourselves, how would it affect your views on playing these games?

I play a lot but im probably one of the least violent persons out there.
Video games breed violence isnt a myth, but nor is it true. Nice writeup on this
Generally there are other things way more effective at making people violent (Bad childhood & peer influence)

I say it again. Video games are there do make things possible that you cant do irl. For example being violent without any trouble.
Anyone with a healthy mind knows you cant just go GTAV on everybody and expect not to be put in jail for a long time.

Just like Another said. Fight or flight. Its in our genes.

Yes, this is a perfectly acceptable scenario. There are already people who do this on some level with anime porn. It is a hunger that needs satisfied. It is something genetic that people have no choice in. It is better than the alternative. The only caveat is that the person doing such a thing needs to be very conscious that this behavior is to avoid actually hurting anyone. In the same way, if someone is playing a violent video game so as not to actually hurt anyone, this needs to be something they are conscious about.



I think this is an unrealistic scenario, and I also think that IF this knowledge came to be, there would be many more important questions such as, "at what point does an AI become self conscious or sentient?"

There is definitely a desensitization that happens with exposure to violence. Some people are more prone to this than others and some situations are more desensitizing than others. I would say there are definitely people who get desensitized from video games or movies, but they are a tiny minority. For most, it takes something like growing up with abusive parents or years of warfare.

The question of "at what point does an AI become self conscious or sentient?" directly relates to my simulation hypothesis. Not only that but the concept of intent at inflicting pain. Would empathy come into play?

I guess I wouldn't draw any line per se, there is no evidence that playing violent video games makes people more violent.
In itself I don't see any problem with doing anything in a video game.



I wouln't change my stance even for virtual child porn or using child sex dolls. In itself, I see no problem.
As long as the evidence shows that using such outlets for paedophiles reduces the likelihood of them molesting children (or it doesn't change it).

I don't think this is studied enough or at all, and I think it should be.

There is no real cure for paedophilia, so paedophiles are pretty much trapped. Literally even just viewing the material that they sexually crave is a criminal act.
If there was solid evidence that giving them an outlet for their desires (virtual child porn or a sex doll) reduced the number of actual children being molested, we should allow it or even encourage it.

If the evidence showed the opposite, we should probably not allow it or encourage it (with the exception for offenders with life sentences, at that point no child could get hurt, so no particular ethical problems with the act itself there I guess).

Until this evidence actually appears, I think it's crazy to put people in jail for using these outlets, like these recent cases in the UK of men charged with a crime for having imported a child sex doll into the country:

http://www.independent.c...nline-nca-a7868686.html

https://www.reuters.com/...rime-doll-idUSKBN1AG1JS




If we were in a simulation sentient beings would still feel pain so it would still be "bad" to cause them pain.
So it wouldn't change my stance. Anything permissible in video games (as long as they don't dramatically increase actual violence committed in real life), but still bad to cause pain to actual sentient beings in the simulation.

When people usually talk about hyper-violence in media "desensitizing" us, there is an underlying assumption that is taken for granted. First of all is not necessarily the case that hyper-violence desensitizes us, but let's suppose it was.
The assumption consists in the idea that what we lose with desensitization, namely "empathy" (the ability to feel what the other feels when he/she is in a certain emotional state, usually a bad one) will lead to an erosion of actual moral concern for other people.
That's actually not true.

The ability to feel empathy doesn't actually predict antisocial/aggressive behavior in the general population and in psychopaths, what predicts it is lack of impulse control, previous illegal acts, violence in childhood (what hug46 already mentioned) etc.
https://www.researchgate...sychologically_Distinct


I think a person who doesn't eat meat in real life but who enjoys beating the crap out of cute baby seals in a video game is a more ethical person than somebody who literally buys the worst mass factory farm meat but is horrified by somebody enjoying "animal abuse" in a video game

Yes.

Maybe we are just as violent as we've always been, only difference nowadays is the Internet letting us know how violent and perverted, and twisted and fantastic, and beautiful and funny we really are.

This is a good point. Becoming more aware of what's always been there.

Exactly. More, I don't think the world would be more violent with or without hyper media violence. For me there is a huge difference between a real situation and something on tv, the latter is entertaning and exciting just because its not real.. even though it triggers very primitive behaviours in my brain making me fight or flight ready.

I can only guess, but to me, we have never been so aware, cautious and tolerant in our daily lives and social interactions than now. What I see, is that people bring up more and more differentiated ideas and values regarding equality and solidarity for every human being. The need, for my own (psychological or even physiological) wellbeing, to create and maintain an awareness of solidarity and empathy, is pretty far up in the "hierarchy of needs".

Relating to this topic, a question arises in my mind:"Where do I harm the community?" Better check my daily consumption behaviour!

tseuq