acacaya..i agree people can learn from their mistakes..and i think you probably have learned a lot in those 13 years.. it is chocobeastie i have difficulty fathoming here, motives etc and some of the manipulations of information

i have met a lot of people over the years..my position on the environment and not selling dmt has remained the same..most of what i say, as a generalised 'people said' is trying to take in a range of people, to get a general sense

i have also pondered pretty seriously the effects of sharing any information about plants..the decision to release information is a calculated risk aimed at increasing awareness about environmental issues and at breaking a commercial market by having less would be dealers or middle-men and more planting, education on plants, and hopefully respect for plants as not mere alkaloid sources..i hope this is not a mistake

i don't know who you are acacaya, yes i have probably met you...but i don't feel you are in a position to know my personal life or friends..as i keep trying to say, of most people being discussed in the thread, by and including chocobeastie.. i don't know them well enough to have personal issues in this..nor do the other people criticising chocobeastie in this thread..this is what i hope you can take with you from the thread, as well as a sense of clarity in what you're trying to express and to whom
be well

NEN wrote.
if there is any major development in the access by many to dmt, i would say it's to be found in Noman's tek, and the the people who made M. tenuiflora (hostillis) available in the states and europe..here now was a reasonably sustainable source of dmt...and the people who did, and continue to develop Phalaris are the next step ahead in trying to address this ..
the state of mhrb,? root bark kills trees Nen!
how is that even remotly suustainable?

and saying that,!
yes i think education, and study of phalaris has the potential to be a major game changer globaly.!
but i also think that in the short to medium time frame, this could be offset, by some people offering acuminata phylodes to the larger community.
as they have with mhrb.

and thankyou Nen for your respect on these issues,
and i fully respect your work and the work of outhers, in this extrmely complicated and complex issue that we are all facing , as the war on so called drugs is shifting gears globaly.

PEACEOUT.

WATTLEFOREVA

OM MANI PADME HUM

acacaya, please take time to use the nexus as a research tool

Mimosa hostilis (tenuiflora) is a tree that remarkably can have it's root bark removed, and will re sprout..not a common trait, but a stand out one of the species..it is not like acacias in this way, where roots or trunk stripping equals death for trees
also, it is extensively plantation grown, and this is where most has come from, though there have been a few cases of abuse there too..but it is in that way sustainable..

not the nightmare for trees and forest that this so called 'original' changa, though not original smoking mix idea, seems to have often been

thankyou for that , about mimosa resprouting,
i did not know that bro.
we all still have alot to learn.

some one should offer free acuminata seeds and seedling here .!
they grow pretty much anywhere as you know.!

@ #139 Posted : 7/17/2017 11:36:56 AM

@ #140 Posted : 7/17/2017 12:24:26 PM (within an hour!)





Whoah, suddenly you're making sense bro! Now go make it happen!

BTW, I have it from personal communication that the mimosa hostilis coming from Brazil can safely be considered very sustainable. It is found abundantly in an arid region where it is the only plant that is actually happy to grow. In fact it is so abundant there that local farmers consider it a pest and are very happy for people to come and dig it out of their land for them (only to have it pop up again and again.)

Still, if mimosa were to be brought to australia, it could become the new cane toad. I am not sure if that would be a good idea..

Nen wrote ,

But what i would mainly like to postulate in this intro. is the question i used to ask those who argued that
DMT, if purified, was the same whether it was synthetic or extracted from a plant. I would ask them:
"If i shredded up your
grandmother, extracted the DMT out of her cerebralspinal fluid., purified it and asked you to smoke it, would that be the same?"


i realy just loved the way you put it.!
very good analogy!
well said.,

yes , mimosa could easily become a real pest like syrian rue once was in southaustralia,
and still is in some places.
check out AVH africa rue.
found some in sa a few years ago.
brwed up the roots.
was sic brew,

An efficient in vitro production of biomass hairy root cultures and elicitation of β-carboline alkaloids of Peganum harmala was established from P. harmala seedlings. Hairy root culture was arised by inoculation of the excised seedling with Agrobacterium rhizogenes. Analysis of rolC and virC genes by using polymerase chain reaction (PCR) has confirmed the transformation of the root culture. Hairy root cultures were employed to study the production of harmine as the main β-carboline alkaloids. The transformed cultures were incubated with potential elicitors, such as hydrogen peroxides (H2O2), or biosynthetic precursor as tryptophane in order to stimulate the biosynthesis of β-carboline alkaloids, mainly harmine as the major one. Profile and amounts of β-carboline alkaloids were analyzed using capillary GLC–MS.

The results revealed that, treatment of the cultures with H2O2 (0.01%) induced the accumulation of harmine, as the major β-carboline alkaloids in root, by approximately sixfold as compared to the untreated control. The highest stimulation resulted in a harmine level of ca. 4.5 mg/g DW after 24 h of incubation. Concerning the biosynthetic precursor, tryptophane (2 mM) enhanced the alkaloid production approximately fivefold (0.25–0.3 mg/g DW) within 24 h.

and dreamer that post you made on wiki,today
from shaman australis in 2005 about smokable ayahuasca,!
Who do you think ,
folias is mate?

So as I've been indexing all the early reports of smoking beta-carboline alkaloids and using them to potentiate tryptamines I was pondering to myself why the reports of smoking beta-carbolines with DMT were so sparse prior to the early to mid 2000's.

It's really quite simple. DMT was not widely available to people to conduct these experiments with till around that time. The earliest published account available is that Gracie and Zarkov document (they were some of the very few people that had access to synthetic DMT and botanical dimensions ayahuasca vine to be performing these experiments way back in 1985, prior to ER and the plant extracted DMT movement) and they offer full credit to Terence and Dennis and their caapi joints. In their 1994 account, Terence and Dennis in turn quite readily cede that this technology had been in use in jungle tradition long before they stumbled upon (dare I say "re-invented" ) it.

We have those old pipes with the beta-carboline and tryptamine residue from thousands of years ago. We have a long standing tradition of snuffs containing mixtures of beta-carbolines and tryptamines. We have the ayahausca tradition also dating back into pre-history. With the snuff blowing machismo and ayahuasca enemas and the like, how likely is it that in all those thousands of years, no one figured out they can smoke this stuff? As an aside, you have the middle eastern tradition of using P. Harmala seed as incense dating way way back as well, which itself is more or less vaporizing beta-carboline alkaloids, throw some acacia resin in there and you have a room filling "fumahuasca" approximating changa smoke.

Back to the modern era, by the mid 90's with The Entheogen Review, DMT World, alt.drugs.dmt, Erowid, etc. you begin to see the first stirrings of plant extraction just starting to take hold. You folks down under had the advantage of the abundant acacia trees and quickly had the crystals to experiment with, while all those silly Americans were still trying to coax mixed alkaloid goo out of the grasses and bushes. You can see from these early sources that the beta-carboline potentiation technology was well known and people were actively experimenting with everything they could get their hands on which was generally passion flower, LSD, and mushrooms, with a few lucky or well connected folks sourcing out harmine/harmaline and syrian rue or caapi to try with their shrooms and acid.

It's not till the late 90's that Of the Jungle and other vendors begin to arrive on the scene offering up the mimosa bark and caapi vine and rue seeds to the readership of obscure psychedelic zines, books, and forums. From what I understand, this is when the oz folks with their tradition of acacia crystal start having reasonable access to the vine, and as others who were there have pointed out, those who were in the know were absolutely engaged in active development of beta-carboline potentiated tryptamines. I suspect it may have been on Dorge's old blogspot or maybe dmt.tribe.net, but I also recall the early information was that infusing acacia crystal into caapi leaf and/or vine shavings arose because of the fact it was difficult to get enough vine to drink in oz with the legal status and limited amount of (mostly US based) vendors. You folks down under know that story better than I.

By the early to mid 2000's you have significantly more information available about this stuff on the web with psychedelic forums really taking hold and significantly better access to the botanicals through dozens of different vendors. I personally was extracting rue alkaloids and making concentrated "caapi clay" to smoke with DMT circa 2004-2005 following teks on Tribe.net and DMT World and can attest there was only the faintest murmur of this thing called changa taking hold down in oz at that time in those fora.

Call it changa, call it elfbush, call it vapohuasca, call it what you will. The technology of potentiating tryptamines with beta-carbolines via any and every route of administration (including but certainly not limited to smoking) is very ancient indeed. Tracing the history of it, it really seems to boil down to having access to the right materials, as the published information has been readily available to those that would seek it for at least 3 decades. Really if anyone can be credited with bringing the changa technology to the hands of the masses, it's Of the Jungle and those other early vendors that were the ones providing the caapi and rue to the burgeoning acacia and grass extraction communities at the turn of the millennium.

The changa meme itself was well established and running rampant as an open source technology for quite some time before chocobeastie made any moves to claim ownership of it. Given the fact that he had ample opportunity over and over again as it came up repeatedly on SA forums and Bluelight where he was an active member since the early 2000's, it's a bit curious that he didn't have moar information to offer up about it over all that time. Then after multiple teks and hundreds of posts about it on the Nexus and elsewhere, well after it had become open source community property spawning thousands of personal and unique blends sharing the basis of the fundamental beta-carboline potentiation technology, only then does he appear with a tek for one specific blend and grandiose claims that not only did he spawn the name that went viral, but having the audacity to claim that he invented the technology despite decades of publications demonstrating evidence to the contrary.

It really is just too little, too late, changa is the property of the collective now. It's a living, growing, and evolving folk technology and to make any claims of ownership at this point in the game is just fatuous.

that was verry well researched and well writen bro.

the earliest account in australia that i am aware of, is from a good friend of ours,
around nimbin and mullumbimby,
he was somwhat of a oldskool chemistry student and avid tryper from 70s way back when,
full self trained mycologist and lsd deadhead type.
still lives in a caravan up in the hills near nimbin to this day,!
he had heard about dmt from terrence through the grapevine,
and somehow had heard that acacia phleaphyla in victoria had dmt present.
so he went up that mountain in about 88-89 and collected some phyllodes.
did a basic extraction ,and was the first person i know of in australia to extract dmt.!
and he said that he used a passionflower extract to potentiate that.
he said that it was avery strange experience that he was not able to talk with anyone els
that had smoked dmt aswell for about 5-6 years,
said that he didnt think anyone els woud like it or even get it.!
so was all by his loansome with this experience for sometime.
and he was the one who actually help the first people to do semi large extractions from acacia obyucifolia.
the same people we have been talking about.
and even though it was only shared within a small community of people.
they used it quite extencively within there own group for many years .
and had access to large quantities of peganum harmala.
as one of there friends was of persion decent and knew where to get it from
persion spice shops in sydney.
so yes people did knowabout it quite earl on in OZ as well,!

And when terrence came to australia in about 94,
he came to do a talk in byron bay, it was called( beyond the brain)
,at the old epicentre, where we used to hold alot of our old doof partys,
it was an old waling station close to the centre of town.!
and the people we have been talking about,
packed him a cone of obtucifolia with some kind of herb ,on stage.
and when he came out of it he said.

SOOO, I SEE IVE BEEN PREACHING TO THE CONVERTED.
and they all had a good laugh!
so dmt culture has been happening pretty full on in OZZ for quite some time.
and now is quite commonplace actually.
it realy is good to listen to these old stories again.
and myself and outhers would love to here some classic americana tales as well,
if anyone would care to share,!

dreamer o42,
sounds like you might have some cool stories to tell bro.

Speaking personally, i don't think that you have made a mistake. Your contributions that i have read on this forum (along with many, many other members contributions) have given me a healthy re-introduction back into the world of psychedelics and also to how i look at life in general.

Mindillusion,

I didn’t think changa was a such big deal at the time in a sense, it seemed like an obvious thing to do. I was surprised that other people didn’t do it. (At least I hadn’t met them or read about it on dmtworld, is that site archived btw?) I was also surprised that many other people didn’t GET IT. It honestly took a while before it really caught on. In Australia, people really seemed to stick to crystal until around 2011 or so, now I’m a bit out of touch, but I think Changa is more popular than crystal in Australia.

But like I keep saying, I saw the value in this blend and gave it legs. I can’t see how it was an open source project as I never met anyone else who was working on that project. I’m not grasping for anything here, just taking the opportunity to communicate about the past hopefully in an entertaining and informative way as I’m aware a decent number of people will read this over time.

So I found it somewhat odd at the time (in the early noughties), that I was a scapegoat clearly for everyone else. What they accused me of, is what they were doing! But so hush hush! My attitude was more… open, sharing. They didn’t want the attention and they could only see me as an attention seeker. I was on fire, I was a bit mad, but I was passionate also.

Nen,

So you downplay any maliciousness in the scene against me, then are typecasting me in a malicious way with stories you may have heard. I know you like to posit yourself as a guardian of the obtusifolias, as you discovered them and seem to feel a right to speak on behalf of the trees and the indigenous people, as your question to me delivered to me by the panel chair, at the end of my breaking convention talk recently showed.

Times have changed, there are new challenges. My response to your question was that we should encourage more people to grow plantations of trees, which many are doing and encourage people to source acacia acuminata phyllodes, which I believe is the most sustainable source.

So I’ve never heard people thought I was selling Changa to teenagers at dance parties! I gave away a hell of a lot and it got it out to many people. I made friends with a bunch of teenagers (18-19 mind you!) who were very switched on and into psychedelics in general. One of them is now a festival organizer.

Regarding big, old trees. I think the issue was at the time, we only knew about the obtusifolias. Regarding maidenii as a source, I did a fair bit of research into them and it was never a reliable source, even to harvest from the tall, older trees would be quite tricky!

The issue with obtusifolia phyllodes is that the yield was very low (like 0.1%) or non-existent. I am aware there are places you can gather and get decent yields of obutisfolia phyllodes (up to 0.5% I tested), but it is very tricky.

I recently heard of some mimosa hostilis trees that are many hundreds of years old in Mexico, but this is not the case with acacias, they seem to have a maximum 70 year lifespan. They die and fall over very easily, and are considered a pioneer species.

You can see when a tree is about to die because much of it is rotten and the bark changes consistency, it often goes red and rough, from smooth and pink. Also, I think its important to ask the tree first. I actually started to communicate with plants in the late 90’s as I would make flower essences from plants.

If the tree says no, then move on and find one that says yes. The one’s that say yes are normally rotten in the middle and are leaning over and about to fall over. It shouldn’t be necessary to cut down trees anyway, as there are normally fallen down one’s if you spend the time walking in the forrest. You seem to think that the trees are completely opposed to working with us, but my experience is that many are happy to share their wisdom.

This connection and communication with the trees is the primary part of the alchemy, everything starts and ends right there.

All the DMT around that time was really coming from trees that people cut down or had harvested after they had fallen over. But also, I knew of areas where there were stands of trees, where many of them were falling over and dying due to old age! Some people were collecting bark from fallen down trees, something I have always tried to encourage people to do! Or these days, just use the phyllodes of others species.

But I have always wondered about the hypocrisy of people who rage about some people cutting down trees to make DMT that actually may well totally transform dozens or hundreds of people’s lives, while they are sitting in a chair made of wood, on a table made of wood, in a house made of wood! All those trees were cut down indiscriminately, without even any recognition that we are dealing with a living being.

Also, just my view, in this war of consciousness, I would see DMT as nature’s way of trying to bring humans back to balance. Does it always do that? No it doesn’t. But I do think I’m far from alone in seeing that DMT can have a transformative effect.



DMT might have been quite well known, but there was never much out there on the ground level in my experience. In terms of this decimation you speak on, wasn’t there some sort of organized crime attempt to make a huge batch, and that is what you are talking of here? The other decimation you wrote about here a few years back, it makes me think that organized crime was behind it too. How stupid would you have to be to destroy a large stand of obtusifolias when there are much higher yielding sources?

Me and my friends made a concerted effort to give the smoked DMT experience to people in Byron Bay at the time. So many had never come across it. This is 2000-2002.

There were 2 other people I knew of who were giving DMT to people as we were, for free. But not so many people. They both got it from the same guy. There seemed to be only really one person extracting it at the time and maybe a couple of others who exported out of the region to where I do not know! It was a somewhat cliquey group of people often harking back to the mid 90’s Goa culture. And the people I met who had not smoked DMT were switched on locals, maybe just not as connected to that 90’s culture. Obviously, I can only talk about things as I saw them at the time.

Like I said, even in 2003, one American girl I know, (who also went on to become a festival organizer), was only able to find one person who had DMT at intra cortex festival and she was very well connected. There was very little of it going around then. As I saw it, people would do it once or a few times, have a full breakthrough dose, and maybe get a bit freaked out and take however long to integrate that. Changa was a more low dose experience, people could make friends with it, DMT could be more gentle, it could be more integratabtle. A lot of people made friends with DMT through Changa.

Another example, I had some friends who were into the psychedelic trance culture, it would have been 2001 that they extracted a whole bunch of DMT and gave it away to people at a party with a lot of the “core crew” as it were, of that culture. They said the people at this party were really happy because there was just so little of it going around at the time, nobody really had much quantity to play with!

You say people had smoking mixes, great! Give me their contacts I as I would like to talk to them.

Dreamer042,

I never claimed “ownership” of changa. I always let it play and do its thing. That’s why I didn’t poke my head up until 2011.



And I’ve already explained why I didn’t do that, I wanted to let it do its thing and not interrupt its growth and have any claim on it. I wanted to see what people would figure out about it and how it would develop. Actually, not as much as I would have thought!

But actually I did start this phenomena, and I did give it its name. No, it doesn’t matter who it was in the end who did that, but I think I did a very good job navigating a very tricky terrain with a lot of people pointing fingers at me and sending me a lot of hatred. I had a very steep learning curve, in the early days, and sure I made some mistakes. I haven’t really scratched the surface on this story, one I will tell one day I am sure.

Do you really think I care if some people on the internet disagree with me? I’m just trying to get the facts straight as I know them with some people wanting to spin doctor some other kind of story of smoke and thin air, about what happened in the past based on nothing but they think. And this was over a decade ago, lets move on!

But it would be great if we could get some actual real data about people in Amazonia smoking ayahuasca and DMT and the culture that surrounds that.

What’s happening now, in Australia and the world, is you have an increasing interest and demand and people trying to find sources of DMT. I’ve been trying to encourage people to start a company selling Acacia Acuminata phyllodes. Thing is, mimosa hostilis may be a sustainable source, but how to bring it into Australia? I know of a guy who recently got busted for importing Acacia Confusa root bark which he would sell on eBay. Now get this, importing the Acacia Confusa root bark is considered illegal, but possession of it in Australia is not illegal!

I think the issue a lot of people have with you Nen, is that you seem to not respect people’s desire to connect with the DMT space, up until you started posting on the nexus, you largely appeared against people using DMT at all and just wanted people to leave the trees alone!

I have had people give me heaps of trouble about telling people about the Acacia Acuminata phyllodes. But I don’t think this phenomena can really be stopped. And what is happening around WA is very concerning! They don’t even seem to be aware that you can use Acacia Acuminata phyllodes.

My focus is very much on the oral tea use of acacias and ayahuasca, I don’t really smoke changa myself now (too harsh for my lungs!) or have much to do with it these days.

I know that there are people who have risen to the challenge and are creating acacia plantations, especially in the last few years.

I have some other ideas about what I can do… but I’m going to leave it that for now. At the moment, my work is focussed on plant research all over the world. Luckily I inherited a bit of money from my aunt which enables me to do this. The plants have certainly never made me rich by any stretch of the imagination! And that was never my intention, as much as people would like to claim it was so, like I said, I’m writing an article about motivation and intention, which may further explain my motivations and where I’m really coming from in how I live my life.

I think this level of self-contradiction needs to be addressed, because it's happening throughout this thread, in pretty much each of your posts, chocobeastie. If you're going to continue to post here, you need to understand that people are going to hold you to your words. This tactic of making statements and then denying you've made them, or making statements that don't hold up to scrutiny and then changing definitions or shifting the goalposts or lobbing vague accusations doesn't make for productive discussion. I'm asking you to please refrain from doing this in any future posts you make.

Despite numerous people posting evidence that shows you were not the originator of this concept, you continue to insist that this all originated with you, while simultaneously making statements like:



Clearly you do, as you've spent the past however many posts over the past week vehemently shouting down every bit of evidence people have offered (or explaining why it doesn't meet your criteria for evidencing that this concept has been around for quite a while, predating you), including casting doubt on other people's personal experiences and outright denying the investigative efforts of numerous unnamed/unpublished ethnobotanical explorers and psychonauts.

Your words and actions (as well as your earlier words compared to your later words) evidence pretty significant contradictions, imo.

Snozzleberry,

I think I have been VERY clear. My wording I consider to be very precise actually.

I never said I was the person who started to combine MAOI's and DMT. Only that I had never heard of anyone doing that before me.

dreamer042 actually did find a reference to someone from 2000 on the hive of smoking of DMT with an MAOI at the same time.

https://www.anoniem.org/...ryptamine/000022315.html

But they preface that by saying:

"dmt freebase is quite easily smoked (or vaporized) (dose ~= 20-50 mg) and does not need an MAOi..."

So they didn't see this information as being particularly valuable or important!

I have been clear here as I can, I am the person who started making these blends with ayahausca, dmt and other herbs, gave it a name and kept doing it and showing it to people all around the world and eventually enough people did it so that became a THING.

Changa doesn't have its origin in the exploration of "gnrm23" from the hive, because they didn't see the value in combining an MAOI with DMT.

06-29-00 16:17
No 22821


... No Value?

"There are none so deaf as those who will not hear."

So I posted this...



Then you said this:



Clearly attempting to sidestep the issues I raised above, by offering a reply that tangentially engages with what I said, at best.

But even in your attempt to sidestep, you appear to be engaging in intellectual dishonesty, as cyb pointed out. You stated



Except the rest of the post that you, yourself, cited (which interestingly enough you chose to omit from your re-quoting here) goes on to state:



Now, everything gnrm23 presents here is true...

DMT freebase does not need an MAOI but using an MAOI will result in the high lasting longer (and having a different quality to it).

Nowhere in the post does grnm23 indicate that they "didn't see this information as being particularly valuable or important! " To the contrary, they let people know that utilizing an MAOI (whether smoked or oral) will lengthen the duration of the experience, but that it is not necessary.

I'm not going to guess at your motivations for omitting that section of grnm23's post, but that type of apparently selective reading is also not conducive to productive discussion. Especially not when you go on to state:



Which simultaneously erroneously reports the content of grnm23's post, and again suddenly shifts the issue to "why someone else has no recourse to claim to have originated changa" even though there's no evidence that the person in question ever had any interest in making such claims, even though their experimentation predates yours, by your own admission.

And now you are saying:



Numerous people have shown that numerous others (including that post by grnm23) combined MAOIs and DMT long before you had entered into psychedelics (I mean...ayahuasca...but I'll assume you mean smoked here, even though you didn't say that). Even if you had never heard of anyone else doing it, that doesn't mean they weren't and certainly doesn't mean your experiments somehow supersede the entirety of what came before you, especially not just because you "had never heard of anyone doing that."

Earlier you compared yourself to Leary (and Hofmann and Shulgin) and then told dreamer042 he was putting words in your mouth when he said you compared yourself to Leary.

Again, this level of contradiction and apparently intentional obfuscation makes discussion pretty much impossible and is rather inconsiderate to boot, imo.

as i said, smoke and mirrors..in trying to sidestep the basic issue, chocobeastie, in which you say no one else has come up with the idea of changa, despite repeated bits of evidence, you then try to divert into vague and imo delusional acusations against others..such as trying to say there is some kind of old school cabal plotting against you, and now, of Nen: "up until you started posting on the nexus, you largely appeared against people using DMT at all and just wanted people to leave the trees alone!".. i think the only people i have ever heard suggest this are you and a handful of dmt-salespeople..i have consistently been against people pillaging wild areas and selling dmt, and have encouraged people to grow their own plants and not buy, sell or commodify dmt..for a long time..by the time you appear chocobeastie i was taking a good long break from the world of conferences etc..your assertion is ridiculous, especially in the context of the past 20 years..the information on using branches or twigs as more sustainable was being put out there in the mid 90s, but ignored by the greedy or ignorant, or just wasn't well circulated enough knowledge, unfortunately ..i definitely think certain individual people should leave trees alone, that everyone should leave national parks and rare trees alone, and that a few individuals who have tried and made changa (so called) could question what benefits this has really had on their states of mind, and could ponder leaving it alone...as for indigenous custodians and speaking on their behalf, i guess you acuse them of the same things as me..but what you don't seem to get is that trying to look after the environment and sacred places is not an ego driven self interested exercise, which is what i find a lot of your supposed debate to be..

now, please leave me out of this debate, which is about the origin of the concept of changa..which you claim exclusive origin and invention of, which is what most here disagree with..and just let the evidence speak for itself.. rather than using diversions, manipulations (especially regarding me or others) and smoke screens around the argument..which you dodge and distract in multiple ways..

the other ways Snozzelberry has summed up

perhaps this is more like the 'smoking mirror'..
.


an afternote: hug46, thank you for your positive outlook..everyone here at the nexus plays a role in bringing greater awareness to these issues..the positives i do think outweigh the problems..the culture continues to evolve..

one comment by dreamer042 is interesting, with regards to how and in what form information is disseminated or influences, and on the importance of self empowering educational tools like the nexus..to chocobeastie, dreamer042 wrote:

i'm beginning to think acacaya is a troll either unknowingly or sent in to keep leading the conversation away from the core arguments

in this thread's debate, various claims (by chocobeastie primarily) and other claims (by others) are addressed, on a cultural scale, not personal issues or grievances as the member who uses a lot of bold type seems to interpret it.. it's not against the human who is chocobeastie, it's about the claims made, and history, and ideas, and apparently ethics..acacaya please read endlessness' original request to you in the thread, or we're going to stray into psychology