Ok snozz.
I fully retract that comment!

Look all this is obviously getting nowhere. 102 posts?
6 pages.
Ok. Fairenough now.

"For sure, I don't go around ramming it in everyone's face, that I am the inventor of changa or hang a fragile self esteem on a pithy title or label."

This thread proves otherwise.

My personal problem with Nen888.
Is the attitude that we somehow should not be propergating dmt , ChangA openly.
Well Wat do you think is going on here?
People are taking all sorts of f#¿¡#t up drugs on mass!
At these events. Foods, festivals and the like.
And I for one can see no better way to educate people en mass.
And I have personalty, wattleva brother,
Have helped and guided littetaly hundreds (conservitivly)
Of people let go of there herendis habitual addictions.
Whether it be, MDNA, coke, crack, meth , or heroin or plane old weed and alcohol!
Andwat do you,? Nen, and outhers think.
That we should stand back and just do nothing.

WATTLEFOREVABRO!

Where is your compassion broke?

it is both historically wrong and preposterous to suggest only 2 people or something got Phalaris to work in the 90s..this seems to be an underlying fallacy in many of your arguments, which are based purely on your own exposure to various limited groups of people..
Trout is a very quiet guy..when he says he knows of 2-3 people this means that's who he personally knows! i think you'll find there's more reports than that even in pre Trout ER, but the 90s is not a mass net based reports era..Jim de Korne's Psychedelic Shamanism well and truly established Phalaris, and a Lot of experimentation ensued..it's like you think no one read these things...we can practically statistically assume that reports in ER in the 90s constitute a fraction of actual experimentation..and you essentially acuse the nexian who said they were offered changa or a similar blend in 1994 as a liar? ok, but trying to turn the argument into 'just Nen said this' isn't correct..

you claim, chocobeastie, to have created some kind of 'revolution'..i can only see this as marketing, and slightly different packaging..as the concept of MAOIs plus dmt was well established beforehand..not popularised sure, but known...and tried..and varied on..Gracie and Zarkov were very widely read, within the entheogenic community..what you're not seeing the difference between is promotion and probably naming, vs actual concept behind invention..

you contradict yourself in a few ways, one being that first you say there is some kind of 'old guard' deep state who doesn't agree with you, then you say you've only heard this from me..
in terms of some who disagree with your 'invented' changa, you yourself refer to a particular subset..it's just that i don't believe there's some conspiracy out to get you as you suggest..i don't want to name people here, but you yourself refer to a perceived subset, ask 'them'..a prominent Nimbin hippy elder also comes to mind..who has spoken at EGA. .but like ER reports most people who do things are not here, talking about it on the net..

it doesn't matter to me personally what the origin of particular blend is, it never has, but your claims of owning a conceptual idea do..you ask why did no one else's smoking blend take off and changa did? probably because changa was marketed in 'head shops' and places like boom festival in Europe..
people have been making blends, and smoking harmalas for a while, that's in personal experience..but what makes your changa hype seem troublesome to me is that you seem to almost place a method above the plants involved, and place what i find is a disproportionate amount of emphasis on yourself in this matter...this really needs to be questioned above all else, which a few nexians are doing...but also your constantly shifting the goal posts of what defines changa to suit your 'i am the creator' position is also highly dubious to me..if you need to own the franchise, fine..it just seems to me, even from what others have said in this thread, that it has a life of its own...

so for the last time: caapi (or harmalas) smoked modulates, enhances or extends dmt - is not a concept established in the early 2000s by yourself...this is the main point..and not the exact way or plants used..if there is a central concept to changa that is surely it..and we already see the concept 'smokable ayahusca' in 90s ER..
as for the popularisation and mass selling of things, and probably naming, but I'm not 100% sure there either, i leave that to you chocobeastie..popularisation and invention are different kinds of claims..

it is some of the claims you're making, not that you have a connection to changa, which a few people are taking issue with here..

acacaya, i think you need to think through what you're saying a bit more, before bringing 'compassion' into this...on the environment, compassion there, on that this is a massively read forum, so is hardly denying people access to information, and that disagreeing with someone because you think some things they have said aren't right does not mean not having compassion..

Ok Nen,
so we have established that human beings have been smoking dmt with betacarbolines ,
for atleast 4000 years,if not a hell of a lot longer.!
and we have established that modern man ,so to speak,
or should i say western civilization ,became aware of this atleast by the 50s-60s,or 70s.!
ok right ,do we agree on those two points?
but at what point in history ,and who was it that actually, not only made this point known to the community at large,
but which groups of people or individuals was it that were the most
instrimental at diseminating this idea and experience on a global scale.?
and who put there time and effort into this to such a degree that now we are
actally debating this point so much at this time.

and that said, it does seem like its obviously about time that we sort this matter out.!
ones and for all!

no matter what the the outcome of all this will actually be.

and Nen,

compassion is everything

OM MANI PADME HUM

mabe its this ,

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and then:



I was present when Mr Ott came to Australia, in fact I was his personal security and my brief was to keep and filter undesirable opportunists away. I was also present when Mr Ott first smoked acacia crystal.

There were others present but not the one who says he invented changa. In fact he was on the exclusion list and was not allowed to talk to Mr Ott as he had already displayed parasitic, opportunistic behavior. eg stripping trees in the forest

After Mr Ott had smoked acacia crystal he was asked what he thought. He said "Great colour, it'd last longer if you added caapi leaf."

It was never an invention it was a simple passing on of positive information. No price attached.

Mr Ott was never a skeptic he actually came up with the idea and then fringelings picked up half the idea and thought they'd make their own special recipes. Of which I saw and there was no caapi leaf in they just looked like chaff.

If you don't believe me, ask Mr Ott.

i was there bro.
with pinkfloyd and ronn. AT EXODUS!!!
and at that talk at kohina hall.!!!
i know you bro.!
pink floyd intoduced me to ott.
and we both talked to ott.togather.!!!
and it was not that you were security at EXODUS BROOO!!!.
anyone wAS ABLE TO TALK TO OTT AT EXODUS,
it was an open discussion.!
i definately never encounted any security at EXODUS,!!!
or at KOHINA HALL.
you obiously didnt do your job verry well cuzz!
PINKFLOYED INTroduded ME BRO.
AND THAT WAS THAT.!.
we had a long talk bro ,wtf does security know cuzzy bro.

INTRA CORTEX CUZZY BRO???

WHAT SECURITY BRO?
Ok you were there,!
but wat does secuity know bro.
and yes choco was probably on the list,?>
only because they didnt want him to cause a ruckus.

OZZY BOYZ CUZZY BRO

Com on bro, is that all you got cuzzy bro.?
we were all there.
Ok you were security,???
wattleevabro.
wat does that mean???

WTF did you know wat was really go-ing on ,at that point cuzzy bro,!
you saw nothing bro.!
were you there when me and pinkfloyd talked to OTT in private cuzzy bro???
i dont think sooo!
you might have been there as security bro.?
but that is all my cuzzy bro!

Did I flip the switch in choco's alterAVATAR ?

Or are you the one who "invented" changa?

Brother,
I actualy know who you are!
Full respect, yes you were there.
And security doesnt scare me brother!
We all have switched avitars!
But we are all tracable.
Back to the core.

But some people have evolved.
Somewhat.
WTF have the security done,?

Wattlevabro.

Let's be honest now cuzzy brother.?




A

And no bro I am not choco.
But I know who you are!

Anything else to say cowboy

Yeah,
That's Wat I thought

The immaturity displayed by acacaya and chocobeastie is phenomenal.

To think psychedelic enthusiasts are so into their own ego, it's quite sad.

Psylosopher
Brother all I have heard is everyone doing everything they can to discredit choco!
It has been the biggest witch hunt I have ever encounted!
Wattlevabro.
If you can give it,you can take it!
And this last addition by cowboy is a last ditch effort!
All this happened about 13 years ago!
WTF.
Wattlevabro
We know all these people intimately.
Do you bro?

This thread is nothing more than a battle of egos. If chocobeastie truly coined the term "changa" for a blend of herbs, MAOI and DMT (which i don't doubt), then he should feel happy that he contributed. One does not need to keep on harping on about how "I made it, I invented it, I innovated it". I. I. I. I. Who cares? Just smoalk the damn magic.


Again, chocobeastie may have coined the term changa, but one cannot definitively say they are the first ever person to invent it.

Ever heard of Charles Darwin? Most people have. Ever heard of Alfred Wallace? Probably not. Just because someone became famous for a discovery, doesn't mean they are the first to discover it.