...the obvious answer is NO but bear with me.

I have had the most enlightening meditation events / changes to my psyche occur when I am depressed. When I feel like I no longer care about my life, if I die, if anything bad happens... if I feel like this and I meditate... I can't explain the feeling but it is almost like I get deep into my mind, past the ego which cares too much about living to let me past this wall, I end up floating down a dark pit in my mind. Then after I sleep the next few weeks are always magical and filled with synchronicities. It appears that I integrate experiences during sleep. I was hypnotised once by a pro and nothing changed until I went to sleep.

So I figure should I wait until one of these inevitable spirals of depression, take an entheogen and then meditate? If I truly let go I feel they will help me the most.

And is a bad trip necessarily bad? The chemicals teach you what you need right?

P.S. I just want to thank you for promoting Attitude and set & setting. I spent a few hours on Shroomery, reading about silly people doing lsd on rooftops and combining it with alcohol and marijuana, then getting bad trips.

Please note that when I say I no longer care about life or what happens or dying, this does not equal suicide thoughts. I simply lose all caring for a bit. When I was younger this used to happen, I used to start fights and just stand there savoring getting punched in the face and the endorphin rush it used to give me during and afterwards.

Thank you

It's your life and only you know what's right for you. I think that it can be one of the most helpful things in the world for depression and the like, but that is not to say that it is a cure all. More than once i've been taken to the edge from thoughts i've had while dosed and in many cases the feelings didn't leave me for a long time afterwards, and yes, it was very hard. I think however, on the other side of it now, those experiences have been instrumental in learning to work through my depression, hopelessness, etc. You can find new ways of perceiving your "self" and how it fits into the mortal coil. however, the perspective and positivity may not come quickly. It took many years to fully integrate and begin to be at terms with the things that were showed to me. Honestly i'm lucky I made it. we like to all think psychedelics are harmless/safe etc but I know many of my friends who have burned out and ended up in the "looney bin".. so to speak. If things take a turn for the worst in your life.. dosed or not.. just know that things will get better. and then they will get worse again. and then better again. just ride the ride, and don't take it too seriously.

Shrooms Shrooms Shrooms

Go deep. Say hi to the logos

I would say avoid doing anything like that, when you are not feeling in control of your emotions.

Instead do some exercise outdoors, have a soak in a warm bath, eat some good food, and have soom good rest and sleep

I second Ganesh here. Exercise works like magic. Sauna works well. Reading books is great. It's important to stay grounded when depressed. Go out and meet people, contribute to society, get busy doing cool stuff.

Your life is here in this material world. Make the most of it while you're here. Connect with people. Don't settle for a depressed lifestyle, you deserve more!

That's what the drugs end up telling me when I try anyways when I try them when depressed...

As if someone with real depression is going to have the energy or drive to go out and exercise with any intensity or regularity. I see these "you should exercise" post as the equivalent of "just snap out of it". Some people don't know what real depression is like.

Should you take mushrooms when you are depressed? What kind of depression do you have? Are you psychotic? Then the answer is probably always : NO.
If not, how depressed are you? How often are you depressed? Are you depressed all the time? If so, are there there levels to your depression? Do you have relatively good days and horrible days? I do. I am pretty much always depressed once depression sets in. I use mushrooms to battle depression. They are the only thing that will work for me. I've tried most other things. I take mushrooms seriously. I take set and setting very seriously. I always have an intention, which is usually to work on alleviating symptoms of depression and anxiety. I set an intention and wait for a time when I don't feel horribly depressed. I compare my worst day and look for a day where I'm fairly okay. I check set and setting. I prepare. I take mushrooms. I go into my bedroom and lay in darkness and face myself. I have a dialogue with myself in my head.. or maybe I'm talking to the mushroom. It's not about fun, although it can be. More often it is a serious. It is a learning experience. It can be difficult, but not usually. I come out the other side feeling better almost without fail. And I'm good for a couple months.

Are you trying to just have fun? Then the answer might be no. It depends. Have you tried other methods to address your depression? Can you exercise? Try it if you aren't too depressed to move.

In my case it was a case of do or die. I took the chance, and I benefitted. Many people do. Be honest with yourself about your motivations for taking mushrooms. Talk to your doctor if you feel comfortable. If not, go find a temporary doctor, if you can afford one, and ask their opinion. Also: Read everything you can about mushrooms before you take them. Some people can have their depression be put into remission my mushrooms. I am one of them. I would be dead without them.

So, the obvious answer is: Maybe

If there is an issue causing your symptoms, like you just got fired, or a close one died or something, then I say stay rooted and work on yourself and your immediate environment.

If you're simply existentially depressed, or vaguely sad, or don't know why you feel how you do, I say go as deep as your comfort level allows.

John Hopkins has shown the benefits of psylocibin on depression over and over.

I would say it depends on the cause of the depression and whether it is physiological or induced by your life circumstanes.

Yes I know the common advice like "exercise more" is useless... been there and it never works. For me, depression is exactly what the word says - like being sunk in a sh*thole one has no energy to get from. And worse, when people offered help, I refused as it made me feel weak.

What actually helped was let go of stuff no longer needed in my life, some relationships, some stuff. Let myself touch the "rock bottom", go deeper in the cave, find my center and grow from there.

LSD and shrooms helped me somewhat in this sense - I wrote a list of questions, confusions about my life, what bugs me etc. ...

On LSD, I realized I was stuck in life, living in a flat alone, just working and not growing as a person. I ditched this lifestyle after the trip - went on 3 month travel and moved to another city, everything started making sense again.

The problem with my depression was not a lack of energy, but the fact I constantly burned energy to forcefully sustain mind patterns my "spirit" didn't want anymore.

There's not a lot to add beyond what mister niles told you, OP, other than personal experiences. I myself credit the intentional use of psychedelics with helping me move out of debilitating suicidal depression into a more existential ennui kind of depression. Now instead of hating myself, I hate everyone else
wait, that's not right.
Really though, psychs helped me more than I can say in one little post (more like 2000, lol) and I venture to say that they may be beneficial to you as well. There are certain universalities, but its a personal trip, and only you can decide whats best for you. Of course you can get advice based upon your circumstance. We are all here to help you on your way, to answer questions because we all know that there aint no signs nor dividing lines, and very few rules to guide.

I feel like I must add this obvious caveat; that without it I may be misunderstood: The psychs are just a tool. I like to say that one isn't going to lay a hammer down next to a box of nails in a forest and expect to come back in a week or even two and expect to move into a new house. They are tools, wonderful ones, but you need to do things with them to make it work for you.

Dont worry about walking straight my friend, just keep walking forward. I am not a liar, and I can tell you with certainty that there is darkness, and that there is light, for you, as well. Peace, and be good to you, please.

I'm only going to chime in because shrooms and I are old friends, and since you asked about it the old coot felt the need to speak through me.

Should you do LSD/Shrooms when depressed? I think the only real answer to this is if you have a bad trip is it likely to cause you to do something drastic? If you feel depressed and like shrooms or LSD may release that and then they don't how are you going to feel when you come back down? Sometimes the Placebo of at least feeling like there is something that could help is enough to get you through the day/week/month/year until the wave of depression passes, taking that placebo away can be dangerous.

In terms of LSD versus Shrooms for this. I'm not a fan of LSD, never will be. I prefer having all my alkaloids present during my trips, but that's just my body and my preference. In my experience shrooms are a far more Spiritual journey than LSD is, and a spiritual journey is far more likely to pull you out of depression. LSD gives me this really nice mindset for working with data I already have, or examining my ego, but it doesn't really take me anywhere new.

Where the apathy for life is useful when dealing with these kinds of things is you're way more likely to surrender to the experience. But don't go into the journey with a mindset of seeing the dark part of your mind, go in with a mindset of finding the light. That being said having an apathy for life and journeying for shrooms can also be very dangerous for your Physical form. In my experience shrooms already gives you a feeling of invulnerability while you touch your perceived eternal nature, combine that with an already formed apathy for your physical self and it's a recipe for potential disaster. Be aware of that, and be careful, this is certainly a time to ensure a sober sitter.

My best journeys have been while depressed, and I can tell you there is nothing wrong with bad trips at all. They provide the most growth for rising above negativity, tripping only for the pleasant moments means you're missing out on an entire facet of life. Contrast is the spice of life, it is what causes variety so embrace your bad trips and try and understand what they're telling you.

My recommendation is to shroom it up, shroom it up deep, and do it so that you come down just as the sun is coming up. Take a walk while the sun rises preferably in nature and sit in all the abundance, let the humanity aspect of your ego get drowned out by the beauty and wonder surrounding you, maybe smoke a joint outside during this period. Then go about your day and see how you feel.

That's all I got.
Nobody

I only said 'do some exercise outdoors'. I never said 'intense' or regular, because i know that is beyond a depressed persons expected capabilities.

OK let me make it easier with a simple example: Just go for a walk, that is a good form of exercise. Even if it is for 5 minutes!

The point i was making is that if someone does not have the reserves to even do that, then i wonder how the hell they can actually 'deal' with anything else.

Obviously the individual seems to 'know themselves' quite well. I'm sure they'll have an instinctive knowledge of what will probably sound better for themselves.

If (for example) there is any truth in the idea that only through 'doing' will one ever find out, then all one can add to that would be proceed with caution.

I wasn't saying that you said with regularity or intensity, but in order to get benefit from exercise if you are depressed, you really do have to make it a habit and throw yourself into it. MAybe people who are nearly completely static and just lay in bed all day would benefit from getting outside and taking a little walk, but there probably wouldn't be long term effects, unless it was an epiphany that they need to go outside more. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

consider shrooms.. or take the advice of not doing anything.. I know of many instances of people working through a lot of their personal stuff with mushrooms.. it sounds like you are talking about ego death which is part of a journey but you maybe have personal stuff to work out as part of that journey?

Shrooms can be good for working through that stuff, LSD is a good step towards making contact with higher levels more.. spiritually maybe?

No advice give of what you should do at all, just personal experience

I have over a decade of experience in fitness, I agree with everything you said here and would like to add:

You need to set goals and not compromise them. Don't be afraid to dream big, a six pack is more than achievable. The issue is people aren't willing to learn how to build muscle or burn fat effectively and they don't have goals, so they don't have an intensity ballpark they're aiming for, they don't think things like not drinking pop+drinking way more water than you think you need are connected with how they feel overall.

In order for exercise to actually benefit you you have to take it seriously and make it a part of your life. How many calories and grams of sugar do you get a day? What's your activity level? These things matter.

In summary: There are a million "miraculous" transformations you can find online, it is possible for you to have your dream body and there are people with much greater issues than you face (such as missing limbs) who have achieved great physical feats by applying discipline and not compromising their goals for anything.

I have also suffered from depression my entire life (suicidal thoughts started as a young child, history of suicide and alcoholism in family) and nothing puts me in a better place faster than than getting a quick pump on.

Yes, you have a point.

Buttt....for a depressed person who might stay indoors 24/7, wallowing in their 'problems', even walking outdoors for 5-10 minutes may help them dramatically.

We are not talking about these bodybuilding 'transformations', or anything like that. We are talking about simple small steps of activities that may help break the cycles of depressive behaviours. That person can then look back and say 'hey, today i went outside, and i havent done that for ages'. These tiny steps make a huge difference.

Exercise can help people deal with depression, but it's not the answer if deep down a person is unhappy because they don't have a partner, etc, etc. It helps, but does not necessarily cure.

I would say that dealing with depression requires one to first take small steps to improve how one feels about themselves, like i already mentioned. Later when they are feeling better in themselves, from a fresher perspective they will be able to honestly see what is wrong in their lifepath, and devise a goal based strategy into how to overcome problems and succeed in their lifeplans.

It is going to take time and effort, but it can be a fascinating and illuminating journey of self knowledge and belief.

Personally, the snowball I threw down the hill to start my avalanche was to start doing 5 pushups after every turn or cutscene of whatever game I was playing. After a year or so of that I've just recently begun the process of actual body building, it's something you need to start with a nice wide base with at first, nobody should just walk into a gym and decide they know how to throw around weights.

#trainbydayjoeroganpodcastbynight #allday

The small beginning steps are what count the most for sure, but let us not lose sight of the fact that we ARE seeking an utter and miraculous transformation in the end. I wake up every day with the attitude that there is no reason I can't be 1% better at everything I do. Some days I'm more motivated than others and pour myself into everything. Some days I only manage to get out of bed because I have bills to pay but on those days I strictly demand that 1% progress. I do my pushups, eat my chicken and quinoa, go to work and say the things, and even if I go straight home into a depression nap I rest satisfied on that 1% I gained that day. Every year I am a minimum of 365% better at everything I do and that much closer to my goals. And it all started by doing 5 pushups between rounds on steam.

That's a powerful message.

Thing is, everyone is different. For this reason everyone has to look deep within themselves to find their own path. Pressups may appeal to you but for others, it's mountainbiking, etc, etc.

Some find GYM'S monotonous and full of crazed freaks. Some just prefer the outdoors, and some just adore the thrill of adrenalin based sports.

There is a whole world out there, but the depressed person needs to break out of their self imposed cuccoon slowly, or else they retreat ever deeper.

Slowly and when it is right for them will they emerge. That is when they will find their own way, amongst many of the good suggestions everyone has helped put forwards on this thread.

Indeed. I personally can't stand gyms, I have a kettlebell and yoga mat and longboard a lot.

I agree everyone should do what works for them, but I encourage everyone to set goals that may appear impossible in their present circumstance.

"You are mortals in all that you fear and immortals in all that you desire"

Edit. Anyway that's my 2 cents, I'll stop splashing around now. ^_^

According to my calculations - i.e. (1.01^365)x100% - by the year's end you should be at a level of 3778.343433288715887762% compared to the day preceding the start of the year. So, 3678.343433288715887762% better. You won't see your goals for dust!

Thank you for that