Hey nexians,
i have been reading and learning on the nexus for along time now.
as we all have.!
i would like to start a thread about.!

WHY CANT WE JUST PULL WITH LIMONENE,
THEN EXTRACT WITH 5% FUMARIC ACID WATER MIX, LIKE WITH VINAGER
THEN HEAT THE FUMERATE WATER ,
AND THEN AD YOUR CARBONATE SATURATED HOT WATER,
THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE YOUR DMT OIL LAYER ,?
THEN PUT IN THE FREEZER
BINGO.

NO WAITING TO SALT YOUR FUMERATE OUT.
ALL DONE IN 15MINS

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU THINK DIFFERENT/
BUT I SEE NO REASON THAT THIS WONT WORK MY. FRIEND HAS DONE ALOT OF EXTRACTIONS
ON OZZY ACACIAS ,OBTUCE,COURTII,ALL SUB SPIECES OF ACUMINADA,PHLEB,

BUT THIS LOOKS THE SIMPLEST TO ME,
AND FULL ALKALOID PROFILES.
,
THANKS FOR ANY HELP OR COMENTS .

PLUS WHY CANT WE JUST BASE WITH CARBONATE TREIGHT UP.
I FULL UNDERSTAND THAT THIS METHOD WOULD NOT BRING THE PH UP ENOUGH TO GET THE FULL YEALD.!
BUT IT WOULD BE THE CLEANEST WAY BY FAR.!!!
AND YOU COULD JUST DO THE FIRST 2 PULLS WITH THE CARBONATE,!AND LIMO OVCAUSE
THEN JUST AD THE COUSTIC AFTER THAT TO GET WAT IS LEFT???

THE FIRST 2 PULLS WOULD BE ENERGETICALLY CLEAN,
NO CAUSTIC...!!!

AND ANOUTHER IDEA MY FRIEND HAD WAS WHY NOT???
JUST COOK WITH FUMARIC ACID INSTEAD OF TARTARIC OR CITRIC ACID ,YHAN FILTER VERRY WELL.

THEN REDUCE ACCORDINGLY TO NEEDED VOLUME /
KEEP HOT
THEN AD YOUR HOT CARBONATE SATURATED WATER AND YOU SHOULD GET OIL SEPARATION INSTANTLY???
NO SOLVENT>>>!!!??? ADD ENOUGH CARBONATE TO GET TO PH 10.PUT IN FREEZER.!
YES IT WOULD BE WITH ALL PLANT OILS .
BUT YOU DRINK IT LIKE THAT IN AYAHUASCA ,FULL ALKALOID.
THEN JUST AD IT TO YOUR CHANGA.

THEN YOU COULD DO WAT EVER YOU LIKE TO CLEAN IT UP / BUT WAT EVA, NO SOLVENT

MY FRIEND HAS DONE THE FIRST ONE ,
FREBASE FROM THE FUMARATE WATER,WITH CARBONATE,
WORKED FINE
IN THE FREEZER WAS RED SOLID LAYER
AND WAS DRY AND CRYSTALY WHEN THAWED OUT

THAT WAS FROM ACUMINADA.



I

PLEASE POST YOUR IDEAS.

LIMOLORDS

Can't read capitals, sorry

Energetically clean isn't a thing...

This is not the "cleanest method"

I'd suggest you start by reading this as it appears you don't quite understand the principles of extraction

Because that would yield more contaminant if any dmt

thats cool bro.

peace out.
i do actualy fully understand the pricipals of extraction.
been doing acacia extractions for about 13 years!
since the early days in australia ,
befor there was dmt nexus.
had no internet!!!
just past down from old hippys in nimbin and byron bay.
wwhen terrence mckenna first came to australia in about 94 when the old hippys were alwready been doing it since 89.
they were the ones that showd terrence acacia obtucifolia,
and they had a semminar called beyond the brain in the byron hinterland,
and they pact him a pipe on sthe stage ,
and when he came out of it ,
he said ,
sooo i see ive been preeching to the converted.
and they all had abig joke
thought it was verry funny.

anyway guys im just throwing some ideas out there,
i actualy do have some experience to share
and am fully open to learn.
as we are all haere to do.

ive done some quite large extractions over the years.
ive used 140l pots and 4 ring cast iron burners heaps.

from acuminada i got 185 grams from 1 pot.
from 15 kgs of bark.
and once got over 200g from 16kgs of acuminada phylodes.
freeze precipt from shellite.

you can imagine wat 200g looks like of white crystal
in two 3 ltr pyrex bowls.
ive had photos but as you can imagine didnt want the camera to fall into the wrong hands.
a shame realy as would be verry usful for show and tell now.

i have extencive knowledge of all different sub spieces of acuminada
and have spent years in the west australian bush and deserts resterching and just good old
trypin around out there with ayahuasca.
and extecive knowledge and axperience of most dmt acacias in australia.

just tryin to conect with outher similer experienced folk around.

dreams realy can become solid reality.

so peace and love to all

OM MANI PADME HUM

ACUMINADA DREAMING DOWNUNDER

LIMOLORDS

There seems to be some confusion in your posting. All of the methods you've presented utilize solvents. There's no reason to avoid using lye as it's simple to handle in a safe manner. I think, for me personally, many of these approaches that go out of their way to be "safe" or "energetically pure" or what have you, make for less efficient, less direct methodologies that lead to folks having all kinds of problems with execution and yields. I guess my question is, what is the actual benefit presented?

It sounds like you've got some experience with extractions, and given that experience, certainly you can understand that a straight shot via A/B with the appropriate chemicals makes the most sense as far as time/energy/hassle/yield. Why muck about with less effective, less direct approaches when you can just go for the gold?

Please note, we don't allow for discussion of large scale extractions like you've shared as it implies dealing/distribution which we don't support.

people talk about clean alot.

in my experience most australian acacias if cooked properly are usualy verry clean
i have never had to defat!
i have had some verry red and oily spice come over but only when i used to evap.
whith freeze precip it allways coms over very clean and mabe a bit of a yellow tinge.
i actualy personaly prefer the darker stuf.
much fuller experience
more colorful and last heaps longer.
and for changa its way better to have it nice and dark.
ive always found pure white or clear crystals to be lacking in somthing and a bit to
emty in comparson.
peopl think it has to be ultra pure or its sub standard dmt.
i think they just want to se pure crystals.
well thats cool to look at for sure!
and it is great fun playing around and learning as much about extractions and chemistry as possible.
but if you realy want to conect with the plants and let the
trees teach us about who they are and and realy let the tree heal us .
and thats what we are realy doing this for.
than we realy have to be more open to try new things.
its not all about the big tryp and seeing pretty colors all the time.
thats why we drink ayahuasca with just the water extract and not the crystal as much.
i mean they are not called impuritys when we are drinking the full alkaloid profile are they.
it all ads to the experience and the medicinal healing effects in the long run.
they are only realy impuritys when we try to smoke them!!!
or when you just wnt to see pretty chrystals.

you should always wash your solvent limo or shellite 3 times with carbonate and salt
anyway.
95% of the color comes out like that befor you crystalise anyway.
once you pull with limo ,i make a5% fumaric acid water mix then pull with that 3 times.
than heat that fumaric acid water and ad hot cabonate saturated water,
keep ading slowly with stiring until you get anice separation oil layer on top.
let stand until no more separation occers then put streight into the freezer
for 3 hours.
you will have 1 solid rock like a fat hocky puck sitting on top of your
crystalised carbonate.
remove carefully then smash it up to the size of the rocks you desire
and wash exess carbonate off with ozinated spring water.
i ozinate al my cooking spring water and wash water.
noy necisary i know, but it does give it a cleaner energetic feel and smell.

perfect for changa or the bong-pipe -wateva.

thats the way the man that invented the word changa does it.

julian palmer and his book
(ARTICULATIONS)
none him for many years ,
and he is a true visionary explorer.
and a talented ayahascaro.

OM MANI PADME HUNG

COOL BRO I FULLY UNDERSTAND!
i will keep it cool and moderate.
no problem.
and im with you ,
i have no problem with coustic either,
just trying new things.
short sharp and fast is always my motto.
and the quickest and most pure way iv found is shellite.
freez precipt.
always comes out pure as.
no need for fumerate if done properly.
but have been getting exelent results.
from the limo and fumerate water then hot carbonate.
and yealds are always better with limo.
iv read some people have had problems with getting the limo smell out
even after fumerate was dry.
i cant remember exactly where i got it from,
some art supply shop in the uk .
mabe ebay.
but i got some odourless d-limonene afew years ago.
odourless and colorless.
much more pure than the food grade stuf.
it was advertized as a pind brush cleaner.
some painters were getting headaches and dizzy from the smell.
so they changed it.
worked a treat and no smell.
someone might want to check it out.

anyway thanks for listening to me rave on.
just like comunicating bro.

peace

Yes just like snozz said. No caustic no solvent is a big lye.
Limonene is a solvent and sodium carbonate is caustic.

You cant extract any dmt without increasing the ph somewhat and turning it caustic.

cool bro,
thank you for your reply,
i am not looking for an argument on my first day bro.
i am not lying ,
and if you read my first post properly
you would see that the second idea was,

look bro you are right on 1 point only.
that carbonate is indeed caustic.

what i mean is no sodium hydroxide.caustic soda persay.
ovcause you need to make it alkaline to get frebase (only.)
not for different salts.
you can theoreticaly drop out the crude salt without using
any caustic material at all or any solvent!
the same way you can with rue or auahuasca.!

but the point i am trying to make is this.
if you cook your material with fumaric acid,
filter it verry well with wateva,
say for arguments sake,(activated charc)
or with anumber of outher advanced filtering systems.
and if you were only using small amounts of material.
say 3 to 500 millsof liquid.
then you could even use chalk andbacteria filters for syringes.
but im getting of the track here bro.
or whateva works.
in my experience ,
necesity is the mother of all invention,!!!
it only takes a bit of thought and effort.
then you can reduce the liquid heat it up again
then base with hot saturated carbonate water,
stir and you should get an oil layer seperating nicely.
yes it would be crude but if you start with some nice bark
say from a pure sourse like acacia courtii or phleb,
and dont powder it just strip well by hand.
then you should get some verry clean liquid and let it sit overnight to let any sediment drop out befor basing
then once you base and you have your oil,
you could do a fasw precip then dry the fumerate, mabe charcoal again but probably not necisary.then just base with carbonate again,
and bobs ya arty mate.
put back in the freezer for a few hours.

frebase probably hard rock or oil but it doesnt realy matter does it bro.its only for changa anyway bro.but wateva!
full spectrum frebase using
just fumaric acid and bicarb,
and mabe some activated charcoal or watever filter you can throw togather
with a bit of imagination.

anyway bro,
i hadnt thought it that for through .
i was just starting a thread to get outher peoples ideas about the subject.
but since you called me a lyer!
i just put all that togather as i was wrighting.
and that will work bro.
there are a lot of people here with alot more chemistry knowledge than me by far.
i fully acept that.
but not many , if any,?
with the hands on practical experience and knowledge of the trees
over a verry longperiod of time.
i dont know much bro,
but i now (DMT)
and no caustic , no solvent is fully possible bro.
ill do it in 4 weeks when i get back to the desert,
and send you the pics.

i love you all bro.
im a loving person.
i just think we can all learn much more togather than apart.
isnt that wat nexus means.

and outher people i know have had great results with
just boiling down the acetate af dmt from vinigar
and getting an amazingly strong fully smokable black tar
that smokes up fully sic in changa ,
thats wat the man who invented changa does!!!
ARTICULATIONS.
CRUDE AS BUT SMOKES UP SIC.
AND YES THEY STILL USE LIMO ,
BUT IF FILTERED CORECTLY ,IT IS FULLY POSSIBLE WITH A BIT OR
GOOD OLD EXPERIMENTATION WITHOUT ALKALI OR SOVENT.

ANYWAY.

PEACE OUT

OM MANI PADME HUNG

Your tek is actually just a more complicated variant of A/B.

With lower yields and more effort.

You salt and base and salt and base when you actually just need to base.

Also you will loose some dmt because the plant cells will keep hold of it. Thats why lye is used. Its able to rip apart cell walls and leech out the plant liquid.
Yes you can replace that by boiling but that reduces DMT yields and increases contamination.
Also you usually want to either salt or base before pulling with any solvent (water,limonene) because you will loose the fraction that is in salt/base form.

In its optimal form your tek would be the following.

Freeze the wet bark. Thaw it and repeat.
Blend/shred it. Add fumaric acid. Boil it or heat it.
Filter the water. Let it settle and decant.
Basify and let it cool.
Now you have the DMT as a film ontop of the water.
Then you can freeze it off or similar for a nearly pure product.

But still this "Tek" is just waaay to complicated for what it is.
Compare it to solvent STB

Throw shredded bark into lye water.
Add solvent. Pull solvent.
Freeze. Decant and reuse solvent.

If you dont want to use lye use caustic lime. Toss some snail or sea shells into a fire and let them turn to CaO then add that to water and get your low ph.
Or use wood ashes. Anything goes.

Lye is just the best way and there is no reason to use something differnt exept if you dont want to.

Also STB isnt about "pure" DMT. The "pureness" is only dependant on the amount of heat involved in the tek and the length of soak. And usually even a goop contains 90% if you did it right.

You might have had luck with your tek. But thats only because you use massive amounts of bark where loss is actually not important. But anyone with no access to these amounts of bark will rather use the tek with better yields and defat steps to reduce mess.

you are fully right bro,
but the point of all that ,
is that it is possible to get pure dmt frebase without using caustic or solvent .
iam and was not saying or telling anyone anything bro.
you just called me a lyer and the rest was just making it up on the spot without even thinking about it bro.
been up all night and was not even thinking about it properly.
was just making a point that i havnt seen ayone els make
to star a conversation that you can extract pure dmt without any sovent at all bro
i actualy was going to make reference about pulling out of limo with
vinigar whitch alot of people do and where do you go from there.
as most people miss the fact that ya just dont have to precip the
fumerate out and dry it at all ,
as its totally unnecisary.
just base it with carbonate.
and shellite makes great crystals but stinks and tasts like shit anyway.even when washed properly.
energy and vibration is everything if you do this alot,
and are seriouse at all about it.
so wat could possibly be cleaner than simple fumaric acid and bicarb???
and some people cant even get the smell of the limo out.

"Respect for the plants" fits right into this, and part of that is not wasting them. Choosing for an effective tek that has a high yield saves plants. There was a thread here showing mimosa wood sections being destroyed to 'help' us get wood. Devastating photos that made me ashamed. Only for that I'd choose wisely high yielding teks. There is a serious responsibility here not to overlook imho, double yield makes saving wood in return.

one should not taste it at all or something is off, probably not enough drying and/or using a naphtha that has larger (difficult to evaporate) hydrocarbon molecules like white spirit.
Anyway limolords it is great that you think about these matters, and search for alternatives in an eco fashion.


Can you see it?

Exactly

No sense to complicate things or to deviate from the staple methods imo [a/b, stb]. If you take your time and do an a/b or stb thoroughly you'll have relatively clean DMT at the end of it. It's all about taking your time and paying attention.

Water is a solvent... So it can't be 'no solvent' if you use water.

Maybe you mean no non-polar solvent? Or no petrochemical solvent? or....

As others have mentioned, each method has advantages and disadvantages. Sustainability needs to take in account all these different factors.

Either way I think it's good if you are trying to be conscious of your extraction chemicals, but yes, it's important to not be naive about it and to try to look at it from the different angles mentioned earlier.

In case you might be interested, a lot has been discussed in this area in this subforum:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...t.aspx?g=topics&f=61
For example the sticky thread , an extraction method using ethanol, sodium carb, that' s simple enough and "ecofriendly" to some extent.. There are other options, using non-polar solvents like limonene (essential orange oil), or other cooking oils.

Everything has its cost though.. It took energy and resources to distill the alcohol, some cooking oils use petrochemicals to extract them, limonene distilation also takes energy, shipping chemicals to your house (or your town) will take resources, so will using a computer, etc etc.. Keep all of this in mind, measure advantages and disadvantages, decide something and post back your results.

Good luck

Im verry glad that somone brought up the harvesting issue,
as this is verry close to my heart as i do use quite large amounts of bark at times.
efficiency, anouther great point!.
not just efficiency in extractions but efficiency in the use off primary recourses,(ie bark and phylodes.)
i to am fuuuuulllyyy gutted at some peoples harvesting practices ,and for a lot of years...!!!
we have watched pristene wilderness in alot of areas turned into grave yards literaly in only a few years or so.!
the issue was brought up in australia in a seriouse way with PHLEBOPHYLA in victoria.
there is such a small population up there that people had a big impact verry early on.
not only in harvesting ,but in spreading a disese from plant to plant.
that was mid 90s,
then OBTUCIFOLIA, unlike PHLEB, there are quite large populations in some areas of nsw .
more than some people realize.!!!
but most people that starting out, just go to patches that the have heard about or have been taken to by friends who just need a hand with the work.
and those people usualy will not look for outher places verry much if they have got (a good thing going on) so to speek.
and then down the track those people might need a hand and take somone els with them that is into it or that they think they can trust.
then those people go there by themselves when they are ready and then they take someone els
and then those people take somonels ...!!!
and it just keeps goin on and on and on for years , generaly without the knowledge of the original person who found the patch in the first place.!!!
its the old saying , when your on to a good thing ,stick to it.
but this approach is devistating our trees at an alarming rate.
and now OBTUCIFOLIA has been fully striped in a large number of places.
when we first started out there was only a handfull of people literaly in australia
that had any idea of what dmt was and now18-19 years later it is still expanding exponencialy and exelerating at an alarming rate.
its fucken scary out there now to see wat has actualy been done.
but even though this is still happening there is still a light at the end of the tunnel.!

in western australia this is happening at a much faster rate than the east coast.
i saw a thread on here somwhere about harvesting goin on aroun the the avon river catchment over there .
around york and toodjay areas.
it literaly has been pretty much striped over 100 square km area .
not completly (YET) but national parks and wildlife have even got cameras in the trees on som roads and around some patches.
this might sound parranoid i know but its fucken true, iv seen them
and so has people i know.
there have been a lot ov people busted for it too.
i know of aleast 7 or 8 busts where people have been caught cooking and have been charged.!!!

KARMA IS A BITCH!!!.
DONT LET YOUR KARMA RUN OVER YOUR DOGMA.

ALL JOKING ASIDE ,IT IS A VERRY SERIOUS ISSUE IN THIS COUNTRY NOW!

on a lighter note,
western australia still has huge amount of acuminadas all over the place.
nubies still just go to those aras around york and toodjay now because it is only
1 hour out of perth, relativly close considering the size of the growing range of acuminadas in wa.
they grow all the way from geraldton , 400km north of perth , all the way down to 100 ks south east of perth , and all the way out to kalgoolie 600 km east of perth and far beyond.
pretty much 1 unbroken acaia forest,
and thy have been there for hundreds of millions of years

and in that area millions of square kms there are ,
6 main sub spieces of acacia acuminada ,
and up to 64 genetic varients and cross pollinations.!!!

WOW yes most people have no idea how many trees there are really are out there.
so there is no fucken excuse for stripping tree at all ever for any fucken reason.
there are 10s of thousands of fallen over trees and broken branches every ware.
you only have to pick the braches of the ground and still fresh enough to use ,
no wories..

and besides that ,
the phylodes have a higher content in them anyway for most of the year,
so you only need to take literaly a handfull of each tree,!!!
and as acuminada is the highest yealding dmt acacis in australia .
all you need in one kg of dried phylodes at 1.2-1.4% to get 10 to 14 grams.
more than enough for everyone if havested susstainably.

anyway ill post again soon.
goin to the beach for a surf.

susstainabillity is the only way to go forwarsd for us.

PEACE OUT

OM MANI PADME HUNG

LIMOLORDS

complete acuminada report.

this is the most complete information on acacia acuminada.

muchea tree foarms for acuminada seedlings

this is the place to get acuminada seedlings fully legal and susstainably.!!!

acuminada will grow,no FLOURISH,
anyware thats not too cold and are fully drought resistant.!

if its warm and get enough water you should have
phylodes for ayahuasca and rue brews whithin 5-6 years susstainably.

they love full sun.!

OM MANI PADME HUNG

LIMOLORDS

ACACIA DREAMING
DOWNUNDER

ACACIA DREAMING
DOWNUNDER