We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
Ceremony After Care - Essential Tips! Options
 
MrToad
#1 Posted : 6/10/2017 6:22:25 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 4
Joined: 10-Jun-2017
Last visit: 18-Jan-2019
Location: London
I recently returned from a Toad Ceremony and I have to say absolutely nothing on the internet prepared me for what happened!

The problem is little to none of the advice includes AFTER CARE. I read about "set and setting" about a billion times, and indeed my "set and setting" was pretty good. The ceremony was according to my intention and very healing. The problem was after the trip I struggled to physically recover to the point of being taken to hospital.

UPDATE IMPORTANT PLEASE READ

Since my experience I have started a daily practice of mindful meditation that is believe is already improving my ability to handle anxiety and panic attacks. So far I highly recommend daily meditation. For the first time in 16 years I have been able to go to sleep without taking drugs. Nevertheless I'm still integrating and still do not feel ready to fully write up my story.

Also please read the post from dreamer042 - these are MY tips that would have helped ME had I known them.

JUST THE TIPS

If you have a severe addiction, like severe alcohol abuse or heroine, do NOT use these medicines. You can get a heart attack. Suggest seeking conventional help.

0. Do not try this alone, have family with you. You need them to take care of you while the neurochemistry of your brain recovers.
1. Do not intend on travelling at least 1 week after the ceremony
2. Stay in a retreat especially intended for integration of the experience at least 1 week after the ceremony. This retreat ought to include professional psychiatrists, psychologists and nurses. If this really isn't an option then don't take the drug. If you still want to take the drug and this isn't an option, spend the extra cash to stay in a high quality QUIET hotel (if you have to do this in another country).
3. Do not have sex at least 1 week after the ceremony, you will deplete all your serotonin and fall into an MDMA like ultra come down. Or you may induce a panic attack.
4. Stock up on vitamin tablets, bananas, and CARBOHYDRATES. Bread, potatoes, etc. Fruit and salad are ok, but don't give enough long burning energy. You need the vitamins & carbs to recover serotonin, especially if you don't eat meat/fish/dairy.
5. Perform light exercise, like short walks.
6. Do not take this drug if you are not a practiced meditator, and have successfully used meditation to overcome something negative (like chronic pain, anxiety, panic). If you want to take the drug anyway against my advice, a colouring book is helpful. Meditation music helps.
7. (IDEAL) Obtain a heart rate monitor, pulse oximetry (to monitor oxygen levels in blood), and even buy a blood pressure monitor. Get your family member(s) to learn to use these prior to the experience. I felt like I was dying, I was confused, disorientated. By having your family member able to perform some basic checks you can resist the urge to go to hospital.
8. Keep talking to a minimum, ask the family members to refrain from talking. Talk only an hour or two a day for psychotherapeutic reasons.
9. Get hold of benzos prior, but avoid taking them unless you hit the 2 - 3 day mark of sleep deprivation. Part of my panic was not having any benzos, and knowing alcohol would make me sick (and defeat the purpose). Many people will discourage using benzos, but the psychological impact of having them "to hand" is great. If you do take one to sleep after 2 - 3 days, try to refrain and get back to meditation, relaxation, recovery, for another 2 days.
10. Walk barefoot in nature and avoid cramped spaces.
11. Do NOT perform deep meditation, only light meditation like mindful meditation and listening to gentle music. Use meditation to rest the mind only.
12. Try to keep explanations in terms of both science and religion to a minimum. Understanding something with the Ego brings only a false sense of comfort. Try to listen to your feelings, your gut, your instincts.
13. Following on from 12, only eat when hungry, only sleep when sleepy, only stay awake when not sleepy, only drink when thirsty, only put clothes on/off when cold/warm. Remember when you where as a child - you did want to eat when told (or "should"Pleased, you did not want to sleep when told (or "should"Pleased. A child goes outside, THEN puts their coat on, most adults put their coat on, then go outside.
14. Try not to communicate/think too much in terms of beliefs and ego-structures. Try to stick to facts. When socialising, try to talk about the moment right now.
15. Do NOT think about how you are going to be in "the future", think about how you are now. Do not plan. Address your needs of the now, not your wants of the future.

Do not expect the above tips to only apply for the first week.

BACKGROUND

Bufo alvarius seems to be extremely active in the dreams/"sleep" you have for the following days. I was not prepared for this at all.

I will probably return to this and add detail over time once I have integrated more, but this post is for mainly practical advise above for now. In a nutshell, I suffered extreme sleep deprivation: about 4 - 6 hours of sleep over the course of 5 days (also I ate practically nothing). At times I was wandering around the streets screaming (literally, louder than you can imagine) and crying uncontrollably for days.

I lost track of the day, what time it was, where I was, my wifes age. I woke up vomiting, shaking, aching, spasming, headaches, hyper ventilating.

Needless to say, a lot of these tips I only learnt in the days after the ceremony. I wish I wish I knew these tips before!! My longest non-stop panic attack must have been 10 hours.

It's fair to say I was "high risk" of having panic attacks as I'm hypochondriac and hyper logical, and had no experience of successfully using meditation to overcome panic attacks.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
null24
#2 Posted : 6/10/2017 8:34:34 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Welcoming committeeModerator

Posts: 3968
Joined: 21-Jul-2012
Last visit: 15-Feb-2024
You have some great points there. BTW, I upvoted you for your input to the community, thanks! You may catch a little hell for the benzo pointer, but I fully agree with you, and there are not many times I'll get behind using one of those things, having first hand knowledge of addiction to them and having lost several friends to them. I look forward to hearing more about your journey and how you feel that 5 meo has helped you.

I've written a couple things about my experiences that are linked in my signature, but eventually, I'd love to gather and collate some data from users about after-care and integration with this substance, which I hold in singular high regard as the most metaphysically powerful psychedelic substance, the only thing I've ever encountered that could be called an entheogen.

I am making an assumption that you may have used it with the intent of healing from addiction and trauma, I too approached it from that angle, and began a long, frustrated journey out of the depths of long term heroin addiction, self harm and suicidal ideation that day when I left the world behind for a quick second. I won't say it has been easy any step of the way, and I don't know if the 5 or any of my other subsequent psychedelic experiments have made it any easier, but I can say with undeniable certainty that they have made the journey possible. By enabling a glimpse of the ultimate reality of the source and fabric of spacetime, by helping me find my true, divine self and by enabling me to find enough love for myself to begin being good to me, I feel that they have taken me from a life of profligate selfish actions to one that is guided more by empathy and a principal of giving more than I take.

I went into a 5meo experience that turned out to be the most life changing, utterly transformative life experience that has ever occurred in my lifetime completely unprepared for it and needless to say for the after effects, which are just as powerful as the initial trip is, but in a different way. It was a big event, huge for me, but I had no idea what I was doing. It did not help that I thought I had another substance, n,n DMT and had only researched that, but still even if I knew that I'd had 5meo, the available literature wouldn't have helped.

The phenom of experiencing psychedelic effects long after the acute effects of the drug have worn off and any known metabolite excreted is also a unique property of 5meo DMT that many people undergo and it can be problematic for some. For me it became a liability but I had no experience, understanding nor support in such states of being in such a delicate and critical timeframe and things got a little out of hand. Some practitioners working with 5meo advise people to NOT meditate for a week or two after the event because the mind is still in a very precarious place, and that may not be bad advice.

After my initiation, with a new understanding of the technology of yogic breathing and postures, I began meditating in a manner unlike I had ever before and could easily enter into trance states, leave my body, experience past life regression, have visions of the face of god(s) etc. It was getting so that I was in a persistent "liminal" state and could easily be transported into a visionary space- on the bus, on my bike, in conversation. I am glad that I was able to stop in the absence of any real guidance, this is the territory that misguided self-appointed mystics wander off into and get lost in. I don't see that danger in your post, I'm just sayin'

There could be volumes written on the experience and how to work with it- in fact there are, you just aren't going to find them alongside psychedelic tomes in the bookstore, but in the metaphysical aisle- and still you'd be unable to sufficiently prepare and gird yourself for it. There is nothing in our culture (Western civilization) that speaks to something like what one undergoes in a full release 5meo experience. It is capable of producing upon ingestion a state of mind that has been available to humans for thousands of years but that has been (rightfully) concealed within various texts, mainly the holy books and spiritual guides of (mostly eastern) religions, and has only been obtainable previously after great preparation and study so that one has a framework of understanding upon which to place it. It is a perfect 'enlightenment pill', but having INfinity on demand could lead to problems if not done with great care; just popping your head into the void isn't guaranteed to enlighten you, in fact it could be that the opposite is true.

Sorry to ramble on so long...It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, and again welcome to the neighborhood!

Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
MrToad
#3 Posted : 6/11/2017 2:07:17 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 4
Joined: 10-Jun-2017
Last visit: 18-Jan-2019
Location: London
null24 wrote:
Some practitioners working with 5meo advise people to NOT meditate for a week or two after the event because the mind is still in a very precarious place, and that may not be bad advice.


Hmm this is really interesting, and I'm going to add it to the list. Indeed when I enter a deep meditation, it only takes the slightest of negative thoughts to quickly spiral it into intense terror. I have so much to learn from life, and understand so little about myself or the universe, I'm not ready to "enter the void".

I would say light mindful meditation for 10 - 20 minutes to relax the mind a bit is OK. One should NOT take it too deep.

This seems to relate to an experience I'm having with sex, which used to just be sex for me, know I only want to make love. But the intensity of the experience means only the slightest of negative thoughts creates a spiral of anxiety.

EDIT: After fully recovering from this psychotic episode I've come to the conclusion that the anxiety after sex is related to neurochemical and hormonal imbalance caused by the Toad.
 
dreamer042
#4 Posted : 6/11/2017 5:26:16 PM

Dreamoar

Moderator | Skills: Mostly harmless

Posts: 4711
Joined: 10-Sep-2009
Last visit: 21-Nov-2024
Location: Rocky mountain high
This is an excellent post!

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and provide these tips. My main critique would be the generalization of your personal experience to that of others. We all come from different backgrounds (sets), we all have different experiences, and we all integrate and understand those experiences in an individualized way. Many of these tips are great general advice and insights, others are personal and will be unique to your own journey.

The sheer power and force of these high dose psychedelic experiences can be rather traumatic in their own right, and indeed the period of integration immediately afterward is all important. Exactly how we go about reorienting to our environment and rebuilding our sense of self can be a bit of a precarious process, there is potential for damage here. This is what makes any kind of catch-all integration guide difficult, because it will always be such a personal process, it's hard to say whether or not what works for one person will be relevant to another.

I do want to offer kudos for sharing your own process, you are correct that most of the available information is slanted toward preparation and what is available on integration is rather sparse. Thank you for helping to fill that gap. I'm gonna go ahead and award full membership for the excellent post and to encourage you to continue participating in the community and sharing your integration process as you move back into living the daily grind in the days, weeks, months, and years ahead. Personally, I've found this community to be the most invaluable integration tool on my own journey, as the majority of the members here have successfully integrated similarly powerful experiences and can provide important insights and examples of how to live in the light of the revelation.

Best wishes as you move back into the daily routine, and please do keep us posted on your progress.

P.S. - Also moved to the "Help and Advice for Healing" section because of limited Welcome Area access.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
MrToad
#5 Posted : 7/8/2017 8:19:54 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 4
Joined: 10-Jun-2017
Last visit: 18-Jan-2019
Location: London
Thanks dreamer042! I've added a note to my OP requesting people look at your post. Indeed this was my experience, and these tips may have helped me.

FYI I also added a note about starting a practice of daily meditation.
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest (2)

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.025 seconds.