yes I must agree its unfair to blame ron for this! Discipleofspice is the only one responsible for his actions here.


discipleofspice, you have to SERIOUSLY reconsider your whole attitude here.. Even though at points you seem to show some respect to substances in some words, you also come across as reckless and naive (no offense intended), and be unaware of it... Maybe you will get shaken up at some point by a very strong experience which will make you realize and be WAY more careful in general in your future, but unlike with psychedelics where the difficulties would be mostly psychological, datura can get you into serious trouble! Its not just because you have a friend there next to you that it makes the whole thing fine..

I will have to second my friends here and say, stay away from anything more than very low doses of datura! If you want some major experience, take some high dose psychedelic, like aya/pharmahuasca or something, with a sitter nearby in case, and get the hyperspace slap you seem to be wanting (I know I sometimes need it hehe)... But please, dont risk yourself recklessly with deliriants (yes, as it was said, its not psychedelic, its a deliriant!) and then come asking us for advice or opinion expecting anything else than what was said.

I wish you all the best, this is all meant as constructive criticism! please do try to listen to what people are saying without feeling offended .. This is not meant negatively at your own individual self, but at your actions only! I know before I have also been reckless in my life in different things and Im glad have listened to others or learned by myself before it was too late.. I now take much more care, and wish you the same so what I and others say are with good intentions

Yeah, I'm sure Ron said not to exceed more than 10 in 24hrs.

Through Ron's experiments with datura as an admixture for other psychedelics I have had 100% positive experiences with no negative side effects.

WOW, you guys make this out to be me selling my soul to Satan himself. I don't assume automatically that I would experience hell because I've read that sometimes people have a positive experience with Datura. I mean psychedelic in a sense that a datura trip will cause true hallucinations to occur. Rambling incoherently in a feverish stupor sounds like a bad trip on any powerful entheogen. Delirium IS experienced sometimes with psychedelics. Fear tactics may work on you but they do not work on me.



Yes, I did have a very clear idea of what to expect. I first heard about it from a Venezuelan acquaintance who told me about its medicinal/shamanic use in her home country, and how it is used to kidnap kids, women, take advantage of people etc. Many people in Venezuela obviously know the correct dosage because its use is very widespread down there. She told me her dad had it administered to her to cure her bronchitis after nothing else seemed to work. It cured her, but she told me that she was tripping for days which she said was very scary being 8 years old at the time. They call it borrachero in Venezuela, and the jimson weed in my neck of the woods is an analog to it.

I knew it was datura but I did not know until after the fact that it was inoxia and not stramonium. The whole point of my topic post was I wanted to know others personal experiences with datura, and to share mine as well.

Damn, I'm sorry for bringing 69ron into this. I have a lot of respect for you all, and do not take anything for granted here at the Nexus. I didn't realize that there was such a powerful consensus on Datura usage among you Vets. I may have balls of steel, and so plenty of confidence but one thing I am not is arrogant. Doing datura is not worth making enemies over so forget it. I won't do it. I stand corrected.

Peace

i say let the stupid people kill themselves off im tired of telling people not to trip on datura
there is enough information out there that anyone with a brain would know to steer clear

If you feel so obligated than do it. I used to recreationally abuse anti-cholinergic substances because I thought they were really out of the box, and I enjoyed them. I really did.

Whether or not you think you have the responsibility, ( I think you do ), Datura will completely eliminate any personal choices out of the equation. Whether or not you have a trip sitter, it doesn't matter. If you're in a safe enviroment, it doesn't matter. With these things, you can take every precaution in the world and the only way you'll ever be safe is in a padded room.

Your own safety is your own risk, if you're willing to risk your life for a regretful experience, then go for it. But me, and everyone else here is telling you not to do it, and we have experience with it. But, do whatever rubs your buddha because I know Datura enough, and she'll make sure you never, ever go back again.

dont worry, discipleofspice, nobody here should become your enemy for doing this or that.. if someone is your enemy for such a thing then it wasnt a good friendship to begin with. Maybe people came out sounding harsh, but as I said, im sure it was with good intentions

Also, dont have your decisions based on whether we here like it or not.. Take everything in consideration, but decide for yourself! I know datura and alikes are used in shamanic context and that in some cases it may have some value, but it is a very very VERY tricky substance and can be dangerous in a very immediate mental AND physical sense. I personally think its just not worth it, and as it seems a lot of people here think the same, at least when talking about anything other than microdoses, but as mentioned, you are the one that is going to decide this.. Whatever you do decide, please think carefully about it and be prudent!

I just see, reflected in your words, a similar feeling to something I have at times felt in my life.. If I may ask, when was the last time you had a strong psychedelic trip?

I ask because I have gone through some phases in my life where I was longing for something, for some experience, and had this restlessness inside of myself.. What usually happened was that I eventually took some very high dose mushrooms or aya/pharmahuasca and then was being slapped by Mama Aya or similar, having my face rubbed in my mistakes and impulsiveness, seeing really deeply about all sorts of aspect of myself, shaking at the sight of my weaknesses, having a hard time facing this all, but eventually going through and being incredibly thankful later, changing myself and putting the teachings in practice.

So when I read your words I wonder if you're not maybe having a similar thing, except that you had the datura nearby and was expecting something from that, taking a little dose, then doubling the dose, being somehow unsatisfied.. and I dont want you to try to quench this 'thirst' inside of yourself with datura because maybe it will only happen when the dose gets very dangerous.. So thats why I think, dont you think maybe you should try to change the substance for something safer and get a well intented thirst-quenching shrooms/aya/pharma slap, instead of risking getting a serious dangerous beating from the mercyless datura?

This plant scares the shit out of me.

Using it as a drug is playing with your life. It's that simple.

There is only one thing that i can say in favor of it, and that is that it IS a valuable additive.

I can also say that entheogens like LSD greatly reduce the deleriant effects of this plant strangely. If you find that you are sliding into a delirium, taking LSD might actually get you out of it.

Having said this...i don't want to be held responsible for people assuming that now they can savely fall into a deleriant state as long as you have acid laying around somewhere.

I was very stupid that i ever played with this plant and i consider it a miracle that i'm still alive.

I would beg people not to use this plant as a drug.
This plant makes you simply loose yourself. More even then with real large amounts of alcohol.

No one's enemies here. It's just a shit load of concern. The bigger truth here is that not many folk have tried and tested methods with this plant for the purpose you want to use it for. If you feel the need to work with the plant, it would be very hypocritical of me to look down on you for it, although I've not gone into the deep end of datura, I have got myself into a few sticky scrapes with other things.

I just want to know that you know what you are doing and will do it in a safe manner, because it can be done but it's a very fine line to tread on... it certainly isn't kids play.

You really want to look into some serious physical preparation for this one that's for sure.

Just found this at the nook:

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/...ombian...s-breath-1-of-2

http://www.vbs.tv/watch/...ombian...s-breath-2-of-2

I think they're talking about some kind of datura, but whatever it is, like datura it is high in scopolamine... well actually the focus of the documentary is pure scopolamine and criminal activity.

I understand were you are coming from I am not trying to scare you I just said be careful with the seeds. The same thing I would tell everyone who is about to try this plant. It is most certainly a VERY dangerous plant. I have seen its effects first hand I will not repeat the stories I have already posted.

Maybe we should have a contest to see who had the worst Datura experience or who can find the most hidieous bad trip report on Erowid or else where. We could make it a sticky in the approiate section.

I enjoy reading the Datura "train wrecks" on Erowid I must admit I get quite a chuckle out of them (i know i should not laugh at others misfortune sorry).

One I remember was I dude with a faimly whos wife had gone leaving him and the kids. He decided to boil up some Burg tea. He felt nothing and went to bed.

Upon awaking next morn he noticed he was roughed up a bit. He came out of his room to find the house trashed and either a picture window or sliding glass door(i forget) broken out.

He then sees on of his kids and asked what had happened. The kids all tell him he had gotten up in the night and gone Berserk.
He does not say what happened when his wife got back but I can imagine.

I witnessed a guy kissing the wall of a convince store. When the cops confronted him he said "leave me alone I am with my girlfriend"
Of course the cops werent buying that story. I watched him struggle as they restrained him and strapped him to the gurney and off to the hospital he went.
They kept him for 6 days in a mental hospital.

Another guy overdosed and was in hospital for a month. He did not speak his first words for 6days after the dose. His entire mouth toung and throat were one big scab due to the fact they dried out and cracked open from the dry mouth. He was also unable to urinate for five days and had a catheter shoved up his urethra into his bladder during that time

So nothing personal dude I would say the same thing to any poster who is taking Datura for first time.

I agree its not Rons fault.

Personaly I would not encourage anyone to use Datura to me its for highly advanced users of psychoactives and they do there own research and know the risks. If you need to ask about it that is a indication that you should not be using it in my opinion.


The folks here wish to help other members as much as possible so please dont interpit it as belittling you or deploying scare tactics.

The big D needs no embellished scare tactics the many reports are there many involving hospitals and police.


PEACE
MV

I was a dumb and curious kid.
I awoke one morning covered in blood and vomit (and almost broken bones) with no recollection of the insanity I had caused the night prior.

It's not something I'd want anybody to experience...

No hostile intentions.

Just don't want you to end up as roadkill.
Don't want you to wake up in a hospital, discovering your legs are gone or you've cut off your ears or something like that.

You could realy seriously get hurt.

This is my best description of it: your life becomes like a silly computergame with impossible things happening that don't make any sense.

Smoking cigarettes that aren't there isn't that bad. Talking to people that aren't there isn't that bad either.

But trying to run through walls or glass windows, trying to run from the monster, kill the irritating ants or develish creatures...And you cannot steer or influence where it goes in any way. Thinking of nice things will not make the monsters go away if you forget that they are not real or even the fact that you can think of nice things.

And even a nice trip is risky.
What about saying hello to the great big friendly cars that want to hug you? Or the exciting rollercoaster ride that starts from your bedroom window?

Don't think you are too smart to make those mistakes. This stuff disables your sense of reason.

From what I know, most Amazonian shamans steer well clear of pure Datura / Toe experiences, and if they do it is only after years of experience, and under careful supervision by someone who knows the plant well. They say that Ayahuasca takes you to the place of the spirits, with some protection, and that Datura takes you to the place of the angels, with little or no protection.

SWIM responds:


http://www.dmt-nexus.me/....aspx?g=posts&t=6744



Yes I have a quench for different psychedelic experiences. I could be content with smoking spice, eating shrooms, and smoking salvia because they have changed my life for the better, but I feel that other entheogens are very worth exploring as well. I plan on harvesting my San Pedro soon, and making ayahuasca or pharmahuasca too. Datura is another plant that I wanted to learn from, and I approached it like I do any other entheogen: with respect and without fear. I do not at all feel obligated to persue her, and meeting such warning from everyone here kind of overpowers the interest I have.



It seems like you guys have walked this fine line successfully more or less without knowing what you were doing. That to me shows that Datura is doable to walk away from with a sane mind, but I will leave it alone for the sake of community. I don't want to cause any friction, and I don't want to cause any encouragement of something everyone here condemns.

If there wouldn't have been sitters around, i would have been dead right now. There's no doubt about that.

They told me that at a certain moment, of wich i don't remember anything, they had to stop me from looking for knifes. I had told them that it would be fun to start cutting things.

I remember that i was walking through a house with doors and walls vanishing and changing all the time, and the house was making loopings and other aerobatic manouvres through the sky. There was also a floating skelleton who was my friend.

When my real friends told me about how they constantly had to prevent me from walking through windows etc, i was very gratefull to them.
And it also scared the hell out of me.

That's why i decided never to take this substance again. And to strongly disreccomend it to everybody.

For the record I must say I have never taken it and likely never will. I do have a plant in my garden but have no intentions of consuming it.


PEACE
MV

"I don't want to cause any friction, and I don't want to cause any encouragement of something everyone here condemns."


Well..I don't condemn it..

I plan on working with dature..but not in the same way..maybe 1-3 seeds, 5 tops for lucid dreamwork. 1-3 seeds combined with various entheogens etc..mainly dream work though..

I have no desire to try higher doses or become deleriant.

I have read lots of positive datura reports on lucid dreaming forums in the dosage of 1-5 seeds before sleep..none of these people were taking them for a deleriant trip. I wouldnt do it too often though. Maybe once a month.

I dont even know if I believe that european shamans took deleriant doses often or all the time...I think they probabily took real low doses for dreamwork as well..just as they did with mugwort and hops...people act as if they were stupid and had some sort of death wish. Sure they poisoned others with the nightshades...

The whole "flying ointments" thing in the way it is commonly understood is a myth..for one thing it wasn't ingested..prob for good reasons..it was an aphrodesiac applied to the genitals in sex rituals..ingestion would be a whole different ball game..much more deadly.

It also wasn't called the "devils weed"..the church made that shit up..

datura = stupid

end of thread.

datura + knowledge = beneficial

and the thread never ends

Smoking a phantom cigarette will not be an indicator you are tripping because you will be DELIRIOUS. From someone that would call all of you guys friends, the info given in this thread is advice. They are trying to help you. No offense, but it's pretty obvious you should research the subject more. You just don't know what you're getting into. Heard the story about the kid cutting his penis off with garden sheers and biting the tip of his tongue off from just 2 Datura flowers? There are people with permanent brain damage from datura. If you want to experience it use a small dose as an additive to ayahuasca. When I got into psychedelics I was suicidal. Still did my research but was very fearless. Psychedelics changed that and made me respect them real damn fast. It sounds like you need to go a little deeper on the psychedelics you already experiment with or try some new ones. There are plenty of other ones and the psychedelics you named are very powerful and can take you very far. To heaven and hell. Datura isn't meant to be used in large amounts. I hope you really do heed our advice. We may not know you personally but we enjoy your company here & care about you.