I had some trips about the acacias, soma and the Bhagavad Gita...
the meaning stands "songs" for "gita" and "God" for "Bhagavad", so "songs of God".
but I noticed that the acacia plant was refered to often as "shittah", very similar to "gita".
if one dare to replace meaning just for fun, it becomes "plant (acacia) of god".
the acacia flower is like the Sun, we know it was considered a God in many cultures in the past and even to this day.
I believe soma was indeed a brewing of acacia with some other plants, containing dmt, maoi, and other substances...
maybe for some reason, the soma rituals were banned and replaced for icaros rituals, so meaning changed from plant (acacia) to songs.
who knows...

sorry I should have linked you all to this before..

http://www.chymicalphilosophers.org/plant-as-guru/

nice jamie, thanks

Oh wow I will def spend some time where that link leads Jamie.

As for the Shitta I would like to add that "chitta" actually means awareness/ conciousness in sanskrit.

Appearently it is known that in ceremonies Soma was only taken by initiated high "priests" and others including kings would only get a substitute , that I would suggest was a brew of Cannabis and maybe Opium which is what would be the origin of the "Bhang" brew which is now taken buy masses on spiritual festivals like Shivaratri.

I've merged this thread with the already existing one.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Soma?

Aldous Huxley, anyone?

Ok well I have to admit I stand corrected about my previous comments of amanita, cant argue with first hand experience. Where I grew up we had those mushrooms everywhere, I just tried once with not much effect. I cant believe what I have missed out on. I am on a different continent now with no fly agarias...

Thanks for that info from Blavatsky, very interesting.

I love this forum!

Sorry to bump this again. But I just stumbled upon the Matthew Clark Video on the AYA2014 conference, and so got interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0o3t3ZkWgY

First I really find it fascinating that they mentioned (Atharva Veda) to have 5 special plants, of which Soma was the best.
These were apart from Soma: Bhanga (pot), Yava (barley), Darbha/Kusha-Grass (Desmostachya bipinnata) and Durva-Grass (Cynodon dactylon).

If find this really interesting as 3 of these do not seem to have anything very special to them. Why Barley? Could the Claviceps fungus play a role here? Or was it just because it was important to feed the people?

Also fascinating are the two grasses mentioned. It doesn't seem they contain any psychoactive alkaloids. They seem to be pure herbal medicines.
But I did found, that Durva-Grass also gets sometimes infected with a Claviceps fungus.

Back to Soma. Soma means "pressed juice". One makes a decoction of its juice and drinks it.
I found the following various descriptions, compiled from various sources:
* It is a water plant, or growing near water plant.
("the main Rig Vedic Soma land also refers to a lake and means ‘abounding with reeds'" and "This again shows Soma growing in marshy or aquatic areas and [perhaps?, IMHO] being some sort of reed." )
* it has a (yellow) milky juice in the stalks, which get mashed by stones, pressed with wood, and filtered over a wool fleece.
* it has uncommon leaves and filaments/fibers.
* It is purgative.
* is described as having leaves that come out in a circular pattern like the Moon.
* growing "joint by joint, knot by knot".
* grows in the mountains (Rig Veda I 10:2), particularly during the rainy season (RV I 13:1).
* described as a stalk (RV I 125:3; Atharva Veda V, 29 & VI, 49) that is brown (RV VIII 29:1) and yellow (RV VIII 9:19 & AV XX,141).

I find it also interesting, that it is said that Soma is existing in all plants (RigVeda X.97.7).

I also believe that it could really have been a mixture. DMT and some MAOI, like Matthew believes could certainly be a possibility. That could also explain the said: it is existing in all plants. Which wouldn't be perfectly true, but is basically about what Shulgin said, it being "everywhere".

I personally really do not believe in the shroom hypothesis, as just no description even remotely reminds of shrooms.

Edit:
What is really strange IMHO is the two totally different effects it seems to have. On one side it seems to be rather a stimulant, you would take before a battle (therefore many think it was ephedra), OTOH it seems to be a psychedelic/entheogen.
IMHO this could mean, that e.g. a low dose has a totally different effect vs high dose, or that really two (or more) totally different plant concoctions were called soma.
Or that different plants in the concoction were used at different ratios.

Also IMHO DMT+MAOI doesn't really seem to me like such a bodily stimulant in low doses. At least not for me. If at all, I could see 5-MeO-DMT a bit in this respect as it gives a nice energy in the body at low doses, without any hallucinogenic effects.

BTW: According to Matthew you had to drink again every 3h. This again could fit the time frame of DMT or 5-MeO-DMT with an MAOI. I would be interested if anywhere is indicated, if this could go on for longer times. If yes, that would mean no tolerance.
OTOH someone pointed out, that we have some indications that soma was creating an addiction, as there is allegedly a ritual in the Yajur Veda (X) called Sautramani to go through for excessive soma drinking.
But if it was a mixture of several plants (e.g. also Ephedra) it could mean only some plants were addicting in it.

Edit2:
Had a short look at the Sautramani ritual. Seems to me like a "normal" alcohol and animal sacrifice lasting 4 days. Doesn't look to me like something to do to get rid of an addiction...only maybe to keep the person away from soma for 4 days...

Interesting video, thank you for sharing! Don't be sorry for bumping, I highly appreciate it.

In my opinion it seems very reasonable that SOMA was a concoction of MAOI and optionally DMT containing material.

Why?
The ayurvedic tradition is about as old as the vedic iirc. And the ayurveda contains a very elaborate system of rules on diet. As we probably all know there is one specific item of interest, that requires taking care of one's diet and that is MAOIs. So I assume that by getting in touch with the detrimental effects of an unhealthy (i.e. body load/ psychological effects due to incompatible alkaloid content) diet the brahmans drinking SOMA would find it necessary to readjust what they were eating.

We do know that MAOIs have an antidepressant effect on their own. So a low dose of soma (regarding hunting or warfare) might mean SOMA without the DMT content.

Furthermore I believe that there is a very western flaw to epistomology where the perception preframe is usually "if something is this, it can't be that" that keeps people from seeing a bigger picture. But this preframe probably didn't exist for ancient Indians that didn't have a god, which said "Thou shalt have no other gods before me!"
This binary thinking evolved at the same time when the Persians started to believe in Ahura Mazda (the first monotheistic religion, believing in a binary divinity like Lord and Satan) and is probably not coincidentally from a culture that had a PR agenda on banishing HAOMA use. The reasons for that seem to remain as secret as the why of abandonment of SOMA in India.

From reading these posts however I came up with some questions. I'll post them somewhere else.