Hey guys, just wanted to get some thoughts on the following -

2 days ago I smoked my first changa(shredded caapi vine/pau d'arco/palo santo resin infusion) for approx 2 years. Since I got my Plenty Vaporizer I've only been using that and vaping my changa and also only vape when I use cannabis so I hadn't actually smoked anything for a long time.

Changa was smoked in a small bong with water. During the session I could feel it burning my throat and now 2 days later I'm coughing up phlegm and my throat feels really raspy and not good. It tasted really nice and yes the experience itself was different - softer with slower onset which is actually preferable but surely smoking anything via combustion just cannot be good for you at all.

It's a shame because I'd really like to explore my changa in this way as well as vaping but I just don't think I can put my lungs and throat through this. I used to be a tobacco smoker so in the past this was not an issue but now I'm smoke free I really notice how bad this is for you.

Anyone agree/disagree, have any thoughts on the subject?

Any combustion smoke is no Swiss Alps air, granted.

Between combustion smokes there is a wide range of possibilities, I guess you made a particular bad one. Smoking palo santo? What about all those people smoking changa and not having your little trauma? I think the thread title is an unfair generalization.

I've added a question mark to the title to make it a question rather than a statement as was my intention.

You don't smoke the palo santo. I soak palo santo shavings in IPA then use some of that IPA to make the changa. Gives an incredible flavour. This is Olympos Mon's infusion method as per the sticky post.

I would be fairly sure that a non smoker would have a similar problem with any smoked herb just because it's combustion. I know a couple of people that cannot smoke changa because it makes them ill after. They feel really awful for days after. Vaping is not a problem.

If people are regular smokers they will not have this problem as they are used to it. I'd be interested to hear from people who, like me, do not smoke anything ever yet are able to use changa regularly/occasionally and don't have this problem.

I agree that vaping is far superior to any type of combustion, even if using a water filter.

I believe that (for inhalation) if you use pure DMT and pure harmine/harmaline, it will be superior to any of the plant material, sloppy/incomplete extractions, or enhanced leaf. For straight DMT, a sub-ohm e-cig is definitely the way to go. It is unfortunate that harmalas don't dissolve very well in any of the e-juices or even straight PG. It does dissolve decently in warm (70-80C) PG, so if someone could rig their reservoir to pre-heat the juice, this form of changa could be an option.

Also to note; My experimental data suggests that harmine HCl vaporizes at or below the 150C of DMT. And as far as straight DMT goes, my partner has asthma and the only way she can successfully inhale DMT without significant discomfort and breathing problems is through an e-cig. Not only that, but she absolutely loves this ROA.

I will eventually try mixing harmine HCl and freebase DMT in an oil burner since they should easily vape together. But my first experiment will probably be oral harmine mixed with vaped DMT. I will never again however mix DMT with plant material to combust. This for me has always added a layer of distress to the experience due to taste, breathing issues, and throat pain.

syberdelic do you feel that with added harmalas vaping can give the slow gradual onset effects of smoked changa?

One thing I don't like about vaping is the 'blast off'. I hate the preflight anxiety and the inability to 'get there slowly'. It seems that even when vaping changa it's all or nothing.

Hmm that question mark looked rather rhetoric to me, especially because of the empowering word "extremely". Regular changa combustion smoke I think of it as just unhealthy, and unfortunate changa compositions that makes one really suffer to "extreme" levels as downright fails somehow, or being it lung sensitive people who better drop that ROA all together, enough alternatives are at hand.

Interesting, thank you.

I see the logic in that, but again becoming ill after a changa session is quite not right somehow, something is really off I think.

I feel to be such a person, rarely or never smoke, and I can do changa. Doses are limited though for the reasons you mention, but in no way the "extreme" or ill effects you describe. That's way I questioned the changa blend.
Don't get me wrong, I'll prefer oral harmalas + vaped at any time.

Syberdelic, why the harmala HCL burning/vaping? People do freebase exactly to get a cleaner and lower temp performance.

Also thinking that maybe smoking method could also be an issue. Maybe I was a little gung ho with the lighter and a slower burn with a pause to let the smoke cool before clearing the bong might help.

Also I don't see this particular mix as being the issue. I know there a lot of people on here who really like using caapi vine and pau d'arco. In the past (before the last 2 years or so of vaping only and being smoke free) this blend was not a problem for me.

I will definitely have another go and see.

Do you find oral harmalas and vaped dmt slows the onset and allows one to get there slowly while still using a vape? Allowing a larger window of time essentially to slowly take the hits rather than as much as possible in one go.

I have never done this, but I really want to as soon as I can. I'm currently on an NDRI and an SSRI. From what I've read, it sounds like this is exactly the case. I would however highly recommend getting a sub-ohm e-cig. If the wattage/temperature is set correctly, you will waste almost nothing. The delivery speed is also much slower, allowing for that slow clime. And your throat won't hurt.

I'm also a non smoker, except for changa...

I find that the blend makes a big difference. Some blends leave me feeling unwell for days with a terrible sore throat and chest, whilst others are just great and I feel fully recovered an hour after smoking. I think it has to do with mullein, it just doesn't agree with me for some reason. I will have to try it by itself next time I have some on hand. Maybe even try all of the ingredients individually until I find the one that doesn't agree with me.

I like the ease of dosage with changa and don't miss the fuss of potentially burning the product. 1st time, every time... always does the trick.

Mullein.

i assumed it was fairly benign, since it's so green and fluffy and pretty. after some research, it appears there's some things about it that aren't so wonderful. those little black specks; those are from the flower and contain a toxin:

"The seeds of mullein contain rotenone. It is a potentially toxic substance which may cause adverse side effects if it is ingested, especially it these seeds are consumed on a regular basis."

i have had my only horrible spice experiences when they involved Mullein being burnt. they weren't "bad trips", but rather, physiological side-effects with fever/flu-like/headache, etc. vaporized, so far, so good, but i'll never smoke Mullein again.

many enjoy it without any problems. bravo. i'm actually jealous for it's probably the single-most efficient herb for soaking up solvent evenly.

Nicely put: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=805013#post805013

Try your herbs alone before making the changa. Mullien leaf seems smooth for me but it also an expectorant and is used as such alone. I have one batch that i added some things to that is harsh and one that is simply 1g mullein 1g dmt and .5g rue extracted harmala that is very smooth. Too much harmala has given me odd physicql symptoms during the trip i dont like. Heavy body load and numbness in my extremties that made me panic. The simple blend seems very easy on my system. In the summer wild mullein can easily be found. Pick it yourself so you k ow it is void of flower.

Strangely, i feel less body disconfort in my monbth and lung when i smoke than vape. My herbal mix is so smooth, and my DMT is made with organic extraction (smell really different than nafta crystals kind), it's just 100% easy, doesn't burn, doesn't let strange after taste. So everything is possible ^^