http://herbs.mxf.yuku.co...nuts?page=3#.VcvsTHFViko


This post suggests that taking Lecitin will improve the absorption of the active ingredients in Nutmeg (which are oils).
It also suggests that inhibiting certain enzymes will improve the experience.
I will certainly try this when I have time...
Thoughts?

Hey, missed out on the latter part of this conversation due to it happening during my busiest time of the year for work.

Yes, lecithin can help. Yes, enzyme inhibition is becoming a fairly well-developed technique. Yes, alcoholic tinctures of nutmeg work very well. Yes, the negative effects of nutmeg can be avoided by proper extraction and adequate water consumption. Yes, you still have to look after your liver!!! Yes, nutmeg is a viable 'mood-enhancing food ingredient' (and definitely not a drug! )

Check out the following threads for some helpful tips:

Space Paste
69ron's original Space Paste thread
Space Booze
Space Chocolate
Nutmeg Constituents are Mildly Soluble in Water
Acorus calamus info (related)
Also known as sweet flag
Absinthe - recipe
Elemi Oil
Thujone oil and Garden Sage - contains some interesting and relevant comments related to this field
Essential Oils and Entheogenic Use - good first post, also post #9 is very relevant to this field
NAC :: N-acetylcysteine :: Substantial Psychoactivity - generally useful information
essential oils/perfumero.. - early aromatics post

Hope this is of some use! Take good care of your livers, everyone

MERGED

okay...

"Dear member, please remember: No discussion is allowed about selling drugs, buying drugs, procuring drugs, prices of drugs, trading drugs and trafficking of drugs. This includes all isolated psychedelic compounds and RCs (Research Chemicals), whether they are legal or not. "

The reason I'm on here is because I wanted to immediately correct a Knot that members on a specific forum seem to have created in the confusion of understanding the psychedelic properties behind Nutmeg. In order to explain this correction and untie this knot I must explain a procure, or as I've interpreted that as "making" it. I made a very funny video with a friend of mine that shows us going through our day on this specific experience, it's on YouTube, I could put it on here right now, but I have to follow your rules.

I can be a total troll, but for the sake of the argument, this forum has no need for that, so I'm not interested in saying stupid shit.

Keep me updated on what I can do to be able to tell you anything, and I will immediately tell you some pretty crazy stuff that is ultimately very positive for Myristicin or 'Myra'. I don't think anybody knows what I know right now... And I would be very interested to see the M.A.P.S. Research team, test what I think should be tested.

Lemme know..

Oilman
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=35654

Dont know about.. [nut meg] tripping ..but i like it on some food!!

Rather than infused oil I had 5mL of my usual nutmeg tincture this morning - details of what this is are posted round here somewhere - mixed with some milky coffee. The effects build over the course of three to five hours and continue for, er, well, it's now thirteen hours after ingestion and I'm unquestionably still experiencing them. This is what I'd call a low-medium dose.

These effects being:- enhancement of colour perception, mood elevation, increased sociability, occasional difficulty with concentration and a general improvement of outlook. Dry mouth, gastric symptoms and all the usual gamut of other negative symptoms are absent, except perhaps for some difficulty with complex cognition which would lead to a description of confusion given the correct (inappropriate) circumstances.

Staying well-hydrated is the key. To reiterate yet again, certain other foodstuffs and beverages enhance the effects, most notably coffee. A very real and noticeable rekindling of the effects can be brought about on the following day with eggs and tomatoes. Salmon and prawns also work in this respect. The thing these foods all have in common is the presence of abundant carotenoids and similar conjugated polyenes. As far as I know, no-one else has noted this effect and I therefore claim this as my piece of original research.

How these coloured foodstuffs bring about this rekindling, I have as yet barely any inkling of an idea. Sensible suggestions are therefore most welcome (welcomest? )

Because of nutmeg's long-lasting effects, it is possible to lower the dose over subsequent days to achieve a prolonged antidepressant effect. This is best done using some kind of nutmeg infusion, although I have yet to try the olive oil method. Always use freshly powdered, whole nutmegs. Pre-powdered nutmeg tends to be much more unreliable.

I feel a key factor in the activity of extracts of whole nutmeg in contrast to the unreliable activity of pure myristicin as reported in the literature is that nutmeg contains many other bioactive components, quite notably macelignan which is an incredibly potent inhibitor of CYP2D9 or thereabouts. To my mind at least, there is a very high probability that other related enzyme inhibitors are present which will significantly contribute to the activation of myristicin and the other nutmeg phenylpropenes. I am unsure of the solubility of macelignan and the other CYPxxx inhibitors in olive oil and thus prefer to stick with the tincture.

Published research into the composition of nutmeg seems patchy at best and genuinely good research papers on the subject are few and far between. Much of what is published on nutmeg is out-and-out wrong. When I have time I'll be adding more to the 'Quality nutmeg information' thread and I also hope to start a 'Nutmeg myths and misconceptions' thread.

Meanwhile, if you haven't already, have a read of this Erowid article reproduced from the Entheogen Review. It's a pretty good article.

If you don't want to make a tincture or infused oil, then this recipe seems like a pretty good bet (but what is a "stick" of butter? US cooking measurements are totally lousy.)

And remember, always use freshly ground nutmeg and DRINK PLENTY OF WATER for the two days of the effects. Not too much though, hyponatraemia sucks worse than a post-nutmeg dehydration hangover.

Trust me dont do it.
Your tongue is gonna be a brick for the next 2 days.

This space paste doesnt seem too strong.
I smoked a joint during a nutmeg trip once and turned myself into a stone statue for a day.
Couldnt move or think. I was permanently green.

If you ate a pile of nutmeg powder then you did it wrong. Also I bet you didn't drink enough water.

But yeah, blah, blah, don't do it. Don't do anything.





Best left for those who know.

I drank like 3 liters of water that day.
How wouldnt I with the brick mouth it makes
Its less about the bodyload more about the trip itself. I dont think its really something you want.
I had euphoria but bery short only

Out of interest, do you recall how much nutmeg you took? Was it freshly ground or purchased as pre-ground powder? What kind of experience were you looking for? Do you not normally drink 3L of water every day?


(Sorry for the previous judgemental response, I probably should have been asleep long before that point )

It's just that I've consistently found that nutmeg tincture made using freshly ground nutmeg in a lemon balm distillate with 80% ABV works for me every time... and in such small amounts, it's quite bizarre - and these small amounts are much less than the standard recommended dose for the lemon balm distillate without the nutmeg.

I would suggest re-reading post #5



and post #9


There is a typo, 1 tablespoon = 15 mL so oilman is surely referring to a normal kitchen teaspoon, rather closer to 2.5 mL. 15 mL would be scary!
I may yet try this, if so I'll report back.

Ok, I did finally get round to soaking a bunch of whole nutmegs in olive oil but results indicate that the tincture is far more effective- although I've yet to ascertain the efficacy of this particular batch of nutmegs in tincture form so they might just be bunk as is sometimes the case.

Further experimentation will only be possible in several weeks' time at the earliest. In the meantime I'll be able to prepare a couple of samples of different tinctures from the same batch of nutmeg for comparison.

Lots of lecithin in citrus, that white stuff, grapefruit for example. Interesting about the blue chamomile oil too, I wonder if it possible to use this herb in chai, adding coconut oil infused with 1/6th the dose of what would be a trippy amount of nutmeg. This is my comfortable established amount of calamus for sharing with people, and I personally have several cups of chai a day.

I know this sounds confusing, I'm talking about 2 different things - chai and calamus. I put calamus in my chai when it's just me. In my experience 14 grams of calamus is pleasantly psychoactive to the point I don't want to be social, but when sharingthat much between six people at a less concentrated brew the flavor is right on and everyone enjoys the noticeable microdose feeling. The trick is steep it as the water boils and separate the calamus from the tea before the bitter flavor starts getting in the tea from over steeping. Side note, I'll have to find the source but Calamus may be responsible for psychoactive effects of Absinthe, as it was at one point a common additive. Anyway this is why I'd like to make a 'bullet proof' chai with each tablespoon of coconut oil containing 1/6th of what would be considered trippy and relatively safe.

Any idea how much nutmeg that would be? I could re read the original post (and will), just would like to hear what people think is a good range for 1/6th the trippy dose. With European calamus root it's something over 2 grams per serving or less in my experience.

Nutmeg efficacy varies with body mass, enzyme profile and diet, possibly also with chronological variations in enzyme expression. When made into a tincture using 30g of nutmeg and 120mL of 80% alcohol, good nutmeg will be active at somewhere between 8 and 20 drops with each drop being 0.25mL. This is for a 60kg male with a favourable diet and enzyme profile.


On the whole, grapefruit is not a recommended additive for use with nutmeg as its effect of strongly inhibiting CYP3A4 leads to undesirable effects. Also, it would appear you're confusing lecithin with pectin, the latter of which grapefruits do indeed contain an abundance thereof. For lecithin, consider sunflower seeds.

Calamus may contribute to the psychoactive properties of absinthe when used - not all varieties contain each of the herbs used - and I'd rather talk about absinthe and calamus in a different thread, but suffice to say, it's the combination of herbs that leads to enhanced CNS effects. (Although nutmeg can be psychoactive when used on its own I'd hesitate to say that definitively because I almost always combine it with coffee. Otherwise I combine it with egg, which, while not being psychoactive in any usual sense of the word, contributes both to absorption of the nutmeg and some kind of metabolic stimulation/nutritional synergy.)

Not confusing with pectin, that's in the peel. Lecithin is a component of all plant and animal membranes. I'm sure there are higher sources, having trouble finding my original source about the white skin of citrus. I believe I was looking for vegan and non soy source when I found that.

I thought the whole thing about the enzyme inhibition was to actually get the desired effects. Only experience will tell me really and I'm definitely intrigued by the German blue chamomile and want flowers now. Yes I'm considering a 6th of the lowest average dose, regardless of the variation between bodies, since I'm only talking about microdosing it.

I like to mix these things in such small amounts. It's a party in my tea 🎉

Nutmeg in coffee is ok, I do that too but I'm such a small amount. If you've ever tried bulletproof coffee or its vegan relatives that's enjoyable - so I'm thinking if the one could make a polar layer to heat together with the nutmeg in coconut it might separate out some of the desirables and be yummy in coffee and chai. What I'm thinking is to make a simple alcohol extraction on nutmeg to get the concentration correct with the right amount of coconut oil as well and add the extract to the oil with the water layer and separate that off. I'd be curious to see after dying up that water what chromatography paper might reveal of these polar fractions. I'd like the concentration at 1/6th average 'dose' of alcohol extract to 1/2 tbsp coconut. How much nutmeg would that be in each serving of 1/2 tbsp? After that I would go by taste and decide if it's too strong and divide it in half by adding another tbsp of oil. Then a whole jar can be made. Sounds like 2-5 ml at 30 g for 120 ml alcohol meaning at 2ml increments there is half a gram of nutmeg. This sounds like too little though I'll have to try to know. I'm thinking it would be possible to comfortably have 12 - 24 ml at 4 ml/g.

Some enzyme subtypes need to be inhibited, other subtypes need to be induced and yet others can be left alone. The details of this other members have posted and I have collated this information into a document attached somewhere in one of the nutmeg or Space Paste/Space Booze threads. I'm not up for duplicating it again here right now but a quick search should lead you to it.

With nutmeg, I was surprised how effective low doses are. Others, more sturdy than I, felt no effects at what would be a largish dose for me. I feel there is little merit to the higher doses of nutmeg anyhow, and they certainly shouldn't be repeated on a frequent basis. Going for deliriant doses is the stuff of desperate teenagers and convicts and is not, for me, what nutmeg is about.

So, the half a gram of nutmeg is in that context, plus it is much more effective when extracted into alcohol as this seems to pull more lignans and possibly carotenoids into solution than other methods. One of the lignans in nutmeg is an extremely potent inhibitor of CYP2D9.

Thus I recommend keeping doses low, and that each individual takes responsibility for titrating their own optimal dose.

I recently re-extracted the left-over solids from my previous nutmeg and mace tinctures. The first extraction was made with 80% alcohol and this second extraction was made with 69½% alcohol. Interestingly, this second extract made my tongue go numb and the overall effects were slightly different in a way that I can't yet characterise. Ultimately, I aim to isolate the alkaloid fraction of nutmeg because it is in there somewhere. I probably won't do that via olive oil infusion, however.

Word

Thanks for all of your efforts, I like how you in effect have me almost exactly 1/6th of the average dose one might potentially work up to if they did find a favorable way their own body to handle it without negative effects (on the low side too!) that was exactly the information I wanted when coming to this thread.

I think the coconut oil is worth a try, and I'll save a bit of the polar water fraction for comparison with the alcohol extract to see what has changed using TLC.

(^that line is significantly changed in meaning when divorced from its original context.)



Of course, being human and replete with contradictions, I have made some nutmeg infused olive oil, as already noted above.

Basically I filled a jar with whole nutmegs and then poured in as much extra virgin olive oil as would cover the nutmegs. This was warmed gently several times over the course of a few days, largely as per the instructions in the OP except my ratio of nutmeg to olive oil was much larger. I didn't bother weighing, just filled the jar.

Initial organoleptic tests suggested not much was coming out in the way of aroma compounds. This may be because the nutmegs were not as new as they could have been - one of the perils of bulk-buying! The jar and its contents, being well sealed, were left for a time. Over the course of intervening months sampling indicated that the volatiles were indeed being extracted.

For me, ^this didn't happen.

Now, some eight months later, I have about 180 mL of the above-mentioned infusion. It appears to be active transdermally, producing mood elevation and sensory enhancement.

Its possible role an uncomfortable incident, I will describe in another thread.



The coconut oil is definitely worth a try. Your TLC efforts are commendable, how have they turned out?