2 or 3 weeks ago I had a difficult experience with DMT, there's a thread here.

I have been doing some inner exploring and working with myself, I would like to smoalk again but now I'm a little scared. The vision I had on that particular trip was horrifying, I saw true monsters. I am concerned that by being concerned about what I saw last time I may manifest it or attract it again.

How do I better let go of this fear? What can I do to better prepare myself? Is there some sort of rationalization for overcoming these types of experiences? Or must I just clear my soul and mind as much as possible and use my faith?

Any shared experiences or techniques would be highly appreciated.

Peace

N

This topic comes up frequently. Look around the nexus and you will find many who struggle with fear issues including myself. So don't feel alone.

What has helped me is seeing it as something I need to see and feel. Accepting whatever comes. That's easier said than done. Sometimes it's hard to control the emotions. Something is restricted and it takes some effort to find a positive perspective. One thought can completely change your journey for the better or worse. I have had journey's begin terrifying and transform in an instant because of one single thought or change of perception.

What is it that you perceive? Is it real? It may feel real but is it really something that can hurt you? Go into that fear and really look at it. It can feel as if you are about to go mad with fear, screaming in your head for it to end, but it can't hurt you. You are not in danger. Your mind is creating distractions. Anything to remain what it is. Acceptance is the greatest tool you have I feel.

I touched on this recently and will state it again. I like that I have had both positive and difficult experiences. It's a contrast that I enjoy. I see both as illusions. I pay attention but try not to buy into the story the mind creates. I have had journeys where I totally convinced myself that I was dead. I was terrified. It was so real in my mind. The despair of it. I missed my life and body. My mind raced with so many worries I felt like I was going to lose my mind. Then came acceptance. When I accepted that I was dead and just let it all go, let all the thoughts go, let all the emotion go. I suddenly felt a very strong sense of appreciation and gratitude for what I was. ME. I don't remember much about what happens when I lose my ego. It's scattered. I just know in that state I have no preference. I just am. And I feel like I am nothing and everything all at once.

It can all be very overwhelming and it's hard to say what may work for you in facing your fear. It can be petrifying to take a toke of DMT some days. Courage. Face your fear. Let it take you over until you accept it. The terrifying figures on the wall may not be monsters after all. Misperceptions are everywhere in hyperspace. It's easy to get drawn into some story or thought that comes up. Next thing you know your off track.

I have to be honest that I usually wait until I have excitement to use DMT anymore. I wait until it calls I guess. I feel like it's an invitation. When I feel a good vibe about doing it I always have a great experience. That is where I am at with DMT at the moment. I like to meditate for a bit before. I like to create a ceremony for mental preparation with some candles and smudging. I enjoy music with no lyrics for some grounding. This is my preference for creating a positive experience. I don't have fear under these conditions. I feel protected and positive going in and that mindset helps quite a bit.

Treat it all with the utmost respect and pay attention. Can you get yourself back into a better state of mind when you experience fear? Concentrate on your breath. Set any intention in your mind that you want to have a positive experience. Go into it looking for positive. Listen for positive sounds. Look for positive emotions. Look for acceptance. Maybe some logic just to say "Everything is ok, just relax." One thought is all it takes. You can change your experience. You have more control than you may think.

All this is just my deal and may or not work for ya. Fight or flight. I like to put up my dukes. Then I realized I was fighting shadows. Then it was just humorous to me. Illusions causing me so much pain and trouble. They only exist if you give them value.

I got to blabbing here. Oh well. Happens from time to time. I guess I have thought about this topic a lot. I hope you can find a way to enjoy your fears in some way. Roller coasters are scary but they can be enjoyable too. Ride it out and try not to dwell on the fear. Anything worth doing is difficult.

Good luck!

Thanks for your reply D. I really appreciate it.

I paused to think over lunch what it is that is actually scaring me, and came up with the most unexpected answer.

What I'm fearing is fear itself.

That is so unexpected and totally blows me away, I really hadn't thought this through as well as I had thought. It's an unrealised gift. Once again difficult experiences are just as valuable as enjoyable ones.

I keep typing things here and then deleting them. Rather than ramble now, I will take this thought back with me and dwell on it some more.

Thanks again mate

N

Hi,

First of all I feel you. As DmnStr8 stated it happends to a lot of people who use DMT. I think the DMT opens "doors" to Sacred states of consciousness that without substances takes a lot of spiritual training to open... That's why I think when psychonauts go for the deep dive without a lot of training some experiences can be overwhelmnig, and we're receiving that hard lessons, so we don't become hedonistic lazy people who just do drugs and feel great and don't do anything about themselves. It is not what psychedelics do fortunately. They open us to greater awe and happiness, but also give us Lessons to get there in general. Sometimes lessons are tough...

So as to overcoming fear (such a great lesson), I HIGHLY RECOMMEND listening/watching this lecture by venerable Ajahn Brahm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7rFsrdtMM8

Also I think the best thing you can do is to just make your life better overall, work on developing good qualities in mind and body. To try create a peaceful atmoshere inside and around you, practice some form of meditation, try to become "the best version of yourself". Personally I think that psychotherapy and meditation are the most powerful synergies with psychedelic exploration.

Then I think the trips will be more senere. Tranquil heart and setting gives tranquil trips I suppose. And I think psychedelics tend to give scary experiences to those who should focus more on their life rather than further exploration, but I also heard theories that those fears can be faced during trips and recommend further diving into hyperspace until resolving fear.
So it's always a matter of choice. I personally definiately preffer the first option (fixing stuff in life slow-mode rather and then when I'm done doing next trip if needed than going hard-core into trips). At least I think so after I overdid psychedelics myself a little at certain point.

So it is up to you mate. But for sure that lecture by Ajahn Brahm will help you. I wish you best luck. And be careful

I believe the fear is some what essential...

I go into great detail in the thread below:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=71924




-eg

.

Bam! Exactly! Afraid to feel fear. Then it's round and round. It's ok to feel fear. It's hard sometimes. It's so easy to get locked into a paralysis fearing the raw emotion that is fear.

Sounds like your working through it pretty good. Integration is key.

Have a great day!

I gave up my fear tonight. I said ok, bring the blackness and the monsters. But they did not come. They certainly didn't hurt me.

It seems that when I faced my fears they were all illusions, no more than shadows. The whole DMT experience seemed like an illusion for the first time. (it seemed so real before) My friend got scared and went home though. I felt invincible.

Now just for that illusion to come crashing down around my ears.

While it's a dead beaten subject, think this is a great thread.

That is my recent love study as of late, not academic but profound life-wise. Our relationship to emotion(s). It's not about urge to control but to understand. And from there, once better understood or a little more humble formulated: having a theory that does the job, from there maybe performing control as a sweet free candy that happens to become (more) accessible, over emotions I mean. All about having more free choice when to become consumed by it, or not.

Before that, there was no choice, or little, than to be an emo-character, like most people so not necessarily pathological excessive. A hard definition but why not: we are all emotion-junkies.
Stance: emo delivers the adrenaline which is the true face of the addiction, or whatnot that wanders trough the system. It wants it's 'shake' and eventually it can be (very) healthy. Like in all addictions it can run the protagonist into self harm.

A one theory sounds like: emotions is like executing an awareness script on which the body reacts by producing endogenous molecules that triggers the system, it is addictive. If you like to see it the other way around be my guest.

It is striking how manifestations of grand grief or extreme joy could be actually, looking from the body side, quite equal. Even for a sudden uninformed onlooker, it could be difficult to distinguish someone's cry out loud tears from joy or grief. Krishnamurti once said IIRC that an orgasm, looking from the body side of things, does not differ from physical suffering process. I did not believe him right away but noticed over decades that many many emotional deployments had really the very same bodily feeling as a result, usually a kicking one. It led me to believe we are addicted to the kick, and thus also on the means that deliver, which are for one, a huge one: emotions.

So what?
I use that theory to shine a light on the item called: emotions. So I can steadily grow from a victim status toward a managing one. So there becomes choice, or more choice, about those processes as a result, the free candy.
I feel there's little choice in being addicted to endogenous 'drugs' though, but the way this addiction gets form on my path has changed for the better. The difference between truly believing in your lies, or executing them in a more conscience way, can't be bigger, while still doing the same. In the second case the theory shone light on it and the emotion becomes debunked in a way. For me there's now little drive to focus on the emotions like in trying to heal them. But when seen from the theory' eyes as a more aware executor, they do lose hold on you, and they change from their selves. Not gone, but profound change already, yet still growing. All this applying to fear as one of the best deliverer of the goodies, a successful script by all means.

I get all the same fears and anxiety that most others do about DMT. It is the same for any other psychedelic drug but to a much lesser degree. For instance, DMT is the only drug I've ever taken where the irrational thought of being stuck that way persists on heavy doses no matter how much I "know better" and no matter how much experience I gain (20+ years). Even on the hellish experiences of Salvia D., I understand the inevitable return to consensus reality.

So, on to my partner. I have introduced her to a broad spectrum of psychedelic drugs. I have introduced a lot of people to a lot of psychedelic drugs for that matter. Some common threads I see with everyone but her is profundity and duality. Profundity as in seemingly mundane things or even moments in time have the potential to seem like the universe hinges on them somehow. Duality in that with Bliss comes agony or that there is a dark side to every trip. Even on the best trips, there is a tinge of darkness that comes with it. She gets none of this.

She has broken through twice now on vaped DMT and has had 6 Ayahuasca experiences in the jungle. Her last Ayahuasca trip in the jungle was with ~20 individuals. They made the brew especially strong and everyone was loosing their shit while she sits there observing the ensuing chaos of everyone flipping out. The only negative she describes from it is a sort of survivors guilt but that was something that precipitated mostly after the trip. The profundity, I am tying in with the religious/spiritual aspect as she gets nothing in this arena as well.

She is entirely agnostic and has zero spiritual practice. She never does anything that could even remotely be considered meditation. She doesn't have any kind of extraordinary mental stability, just a very strong will power and identity that also negates any sort of loss of ego.

I consider three possibilities in her psychedelic exceptionalism;
1) She is physiologically different than the rest of us, resulting in abnormal brain chemistry or possibly her neural circuitry is different.
2) She has all the same wiring as the rest of us but has attained a state of mind over her life that entirely negates the negative aspects of tripping that the rest of us struggle with.
3) There is something supernatural at play such as that she is a higher form inhabiting a human body or that she is in a more advanced incarnation.

Option 3 is fun to toy around with but has no scientific recourse. Option 1 is interesting, but runs the risk of turning her into a test subject in order to explore. Option 2 is what I'm hoping for as this leads me into the possibility that it may be something that can be learned. If I can manage to learn any of this from her, I will share here on the Nexus as it seems like something of great value.

I just thought I'd share this. She has caused me to question a lot of what I had taken for granted as the way things are in the world of psychedelics. I have a long history as a psychedelic psychonaut and she has turned much of what I have come to understand on its head.

If I can manage to learn any of this, I have a suspicion that it's going to involve throwing what I have left of spirituality to the wind and just accepting reality as our perceivable universe.

4) She could be stoic about any problems that arise and suffers in silence well.

I have had people say the same types of things about me. I can push through quite a bit when I am around other people. Other people tripping hard and asking me "Are you even tripping?" I just maintain well. Inside sometimes I feel like I could come out of my skin. It's willpower and familiar terrain for me.

It also has something to do with depth. I will dive into higher doses, but only if I am alone. I think if anyone takes enough, they will feel the full brunt of the psychedelic experience. Everyone has a tipping point. 1200 micrograms of LSD or eight grams of mushrooms will push anyone to the limits of what they can handle.

All in all I think it's about having a good headspace. I would think she is #2 you listed and maybe a little of #4 I listed.

We have discussed this extensively and no, she is not suffering in silence.
I have some suspicion that it is a physical abnormality. When she does Kambo, she gets zero nausea or smooth muscle contractions. The guy in the jungle administering it was thoroughly baffled. She had twice as much as a large guy that violently purged the contents of his stomach to include a large amount of bile and just shrugged her shoulders when he demanded her to purge.

And with psychedelics, it's not a matter of less of these disturbing aspects. They are completely absent. Because zero times anything is zero, I suspect that any dose of any classical psychedelic short of a black out will have the same results.

Fair enough! She sounds like an awesome person!

How good is her recall of her experiences? I would be interested to here her perspective as you have peaked my interest. I am sure she could give some insight into what it is that keeps her so calm and present. If so, I would like to hear about it.

I would say that her recall is extremely good. Her first breakthrough took about 120mg vaped. (no loss here as it was through an E-cig set to 36 watts) She recalls the entities showing her a museum where at least one of the exhibits was actually another entity.

She is actually a member on the Nexus but has not received enough votes to become a full member. She put in a lot of time/effort to become a member and then got very frustrated that after a few weeks of posting in the welcome section was still not able to post elsewhere. I believe that if she gets to full member status, she will probably return to post about her experiences.

Here is a thread where she describes some of her Ayahuasca trips. (RabidLabMouse)
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74132

And here is a thread that is specifically about her but that she cannot post in since it's not in the welcom section;
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74492

Please vote for her to be a full member as I think with her unique perspective, she could potentially have some important contributions to the community.

I voted her up! Perhaps you can vouch for her. Message a moderator. I think she would be a great member! Ask her to post some more and not to be frustrated.

She's already a full member as I reply now.

So Friday night I added quite a bit of extra harmalas, as well as the DMT. Probably about 150mg DMT in total. I was concerned that if I used a more complex mantra like I usually do I may become distracted and give in to any doubts or underlying fears. So after taking the substance I said in my mind, "Om". That is all I allowed myself to think. The journey was just filled with golden sacred geometry. There were no memorable entities or leading visions sending me messages. After I came back to my body it was like never before, there was just beautiful light in full interaction for about 3 hours duration. Light and geometry interacting and interlacing with with everything around me, as well as the music I was playing. Total connectedness. It totally defies all my other DMT experiences.

Not only did I forget my fear but I also gained a different perspective of time. It seems that I have so much more of it now. Everything seems to be passing so much more slowly. It's like I have been gifted with more life. I don't know how long this effect will last, or even that it is an effect. I highly suspect it is just a perspective shift and it will remain like this for as long as I choose it to do so.

What I previously understood about the experience (24 hours ago) to be an illusion does not seem like an illusion now. Or inversely it confirms that everything is an illusion. It has shown me that all is perspective. I have known this for a long time, but in this manner it is truly shown to me. It's not just a rationalisation.

I want to thank you DmnStr8 for your thoughts that helped give me enough courage and self reflection to be able to attempt this, and do so successfully.

Thanks for the votes, people. And the acceptance. At some point soon I'll write a detailed post about what I believe is going on inside me while on psychedelics, DMT in particular, and why I think I am this way, but for now I'll address some of the questions and thoughts in this thread.

It's true that I get no anxiety or fear on any psychedelic. I feel joy, exhilaration, amusement, wonder, but no flip side, and that's solid through every trip I've ever taken over the last nearly three years (I was introduced late in life by Syberdelic.) I do have an excellent poker face but I haven't felt the need to keep my reactions and emotions under wraps while tripping because all I feel is joy. Why hide that? I'm pretty sure I giggle like a naked teenager running through a field full of pussy willows the whole time.

My recall is also great. The only instance I've ever lost time was with ketamine and even that was pretty great, a new Cubist reality forming in my mind that I thoroughly enjoyed. But then, I also remember my dreams, good or bad, much more than average. Pretty much every night, actually. Perhaps there's a correlation there.

Also, yes, I am not in the least bit spiritual. If logic could be a religion, then that would be my faith. When Syberdelic gave me my first mushrooms, he seemed to hope (and I also did) that I would touch on something that would inspire some sort of faith in me, or even just a sense of connectedness to some kind of ephemeral energy that surrounds and binds us all. Or at least something to that effect. It did not and nothing else has either. I'm still open to the possibility but I'm also fine (at least, I think I am) without it.

Either way, I love DMT. It gives me the kind of pure joy (even "joy" feels like a paltry, threadbare description) that nothing else does in this world. All light, no shadows. I deeply wish it could be this way for everyone because it pains me to watch others, especially Syberdelic, struggle with it. What I like most about it is that it doesn't inspire in me any kind of drive to chase it. It's been weeks since I did DMT and I'm okay with that. I still love it but I don't need it. Agape, man.

My option 4 is something along the lines of, what goes up must come down. There seems to be a "free pass" for awhile. My only advice would be careful not to break your toy. I don't know anyone who has seriously taken on the role of exploration that hasnt been spiked like a football at some point. So, when it finally switches, it sounds like your girl might be hit with something brand new at a significant dose without any sense of "damage control". It could be bad. Just something to think about and keep in the back of your mind.

That's not any sort of discrediting etc., just one possible way this thing could play out.

Well said Asher. Your words mirrored my thoughts when I read the account also.

You echo what I've been telling him since the beginning, heh. Actually, what I've been telling myself my whole life too, now that I think of it. I didn't even manage to get drunk on alcohol (it takes a lot) until I was 25ish and I haven't had a hangover. Ever. I've heard they're incredibly awful. I told myself, "Self, you've been lucky. Some day it'll happen. It happens to everyone. It'll happen to you. When it does... that'll be the day you stop drinking."

It never happened but I've stopped drinking anyway. I never acquired a taste for alcohol, despite my best efforts, and it can be relatively expensive to get me drunk (and because I don't like the taste, the only reason to drink is to get drunk and I prefer to drink high proof liquors as they'll get me there quicker without having to consume as much) if I go out. Just not worth it, at least to me.

I am sure that I will have a bad experience one day. The law of averages. And with every trip, it becomes more and more statistically likely (logic IS my faith, after all). And I'm sure that there's nothing I can do to stop it. All I can do to prepare myself is to accept that it may happen, take comfort from the fact that it happens to everyone and the knowledge that there are people all over the world I can talk to about it, which seems to help people here.

On the other side of the coin, I don't want to prepare for it so much that it forces the issue and causes it to happen, in the vein of what was said earlier in the thread. I don't want my hypothetical fear of fear to.. I don't know. Basically, I don't want my brain to say, "Well, this is what is expected to happen and we don't want to disappoint her so let's bring out the childhood trauma and PTSD! WOO!" Just because I was thinking about it too much and trying to brace myself.

Statistical likelihood may become so heavy, so powerful, that it bursts through the membrane of my protective bubble some day but.. For now, I'm INCREDIBLY, INDESCRIBABLY grateful for my experiences. I do not take them for granted.