Last week my new GVG arrived. Excited to give it a try, Friday I began experimenting. I went in three times. First, I started with 20mg. A few hours later again at 30. Both were sub-breakthrough but amazing and immersive nonetheless.

Again, a few hours after the last I wanted to make another attempt. I really wanted to break through (hasn't happened yet), so I loaded 40mg. I don't know which was the mistake: The dose size or making multiple attempts in one day, or both. I hit it and it felt quite harsh all going in. It hit pretty hard too. The room looked absurd and beautiful but it was clear I was wasn't going anywhere.

I closed my eyes and it began like every other experience: visuals exploded into my view like a toy jack-in-the-box opening. It was all incredibly beautiful but I knew immediately something was different. What I saw felt wicked. No love or concern for me. It felt like its only purpose was to make me squirm and suffer to show me who was in charge. I was never in pain, but the emotional and physical discomfit was very intense. It almost felt like it was dissecting my mind and pealing it away. Some of the sensations were almost like receiving paper cuts. I vividly recall at one point feeling like my teeth were shattering, and in my vision the bits of my teeth were becoming adornments in the beautiful geometry that was moving about. It just felt cruel.

Emerging from this I felt like I had been betrayed and abandoned by all the loving experiences prior- tricked even. I also felt quite sad that this happened while trying to venture deeper. It very much felt like a smackdown. It was an eye opener that not every experience would feel loving. In retrospect, I would have been more surprised if every experience was loving. I know from stories here as well as my experiences with other psychedelics that just isn't how it works- it just hadn't happened to me yet with DMT.

With some time the intensity of the experience evaporated and I was able to think about it rationally. Thoughts:

* Bad roll of the dice. I've always felt that there's an element of randomness with psychedelics that is independent of intentions, mindset, setting, etc.
* I pushed too hard to break through and something on the other end (my mind, or otherwise) said no, and made sure I understood it was not up to me.
* I dosed too high.
* My mind was tired/fatigued from the previous trips and I was simply going too fast. Need to slow down.

Anyway, thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Although I felt defeated at the time, it has by no means frightened me away. I do, however, want to proceed with a bit more caution.

Sounds like you burnt the DMT, which has been associated with more difficult experiences. But, as you note, there are multiple factors at play. There could also have been a build up of DMT in the pipe which gave you a higher dose than expected if you then heated it more intensely.

In the context of shamanism though, an experience of being tortured and dismembered could be considered to be propitious.

Interesting. I had never heard of shamanic dismemberment but I see a lot of stories around regarding it. I will need to read more. Thanks for mentioning that! Despite the intensity at the moment, it wasn't traumatizing.

It's quite possible I burnt it. I was using a small torch rather than a lighter, and the ceramic disc I used to hold the DMT sits high, close to the ceramic filter. I guess it will take a little time to figure out proper usage.

hallucinogenic experiences while conducted by us choosing to take a drug are still very random. Salvia was by no means a drug for me, literal physical pain, high heat, total discomfort. I love LSD though, i recently dropped with a few buds, and it was much more different than the trip i had before, and that trip was more than 6 months ago, probably had something to do with me only taking one tab and everyone one else taking 3. i was self conscious about my laughing, where as everyone else was zoning out. it wasnt a bad experience just not what i had hoped for. I didnt worry too much about it though, i like lighter doses to let my hair down. maybe your serotonin levels were lower from all of your other recent trips and a break would be best.

Salvia- I only had to see a few videos on youtube of people jumping through windows before deciding I had no interest in trying that one

I love LSD too. My thoughts on the randomness of psychedelics are based on my use of LSD, actually. The most confusing and ego-shattering LSD trips I've ever had were on low doses, yet I've had relatively coherent and blissful experiences up to 800ug. It's weird stuff.

The DMT experience I originally posted about may have been due to frequency alone, but I suspect now that it was due to several factors combined: Frequency, increasing dosage with each use, burning spice, having an expectation for the experience... Regardless, I think it will be good to keep all these things in mind in the future. I'm still learning and figuring out my boundaries with this substance.

The first time a smoked I felt that my teeth shattered in my mouth also, could even taste something weird that I thought was blood, very strange experience. I dosed around 40-50mg (~100mg 1:1 changa), which is pretty close to you there. The whole experience was pretty frightening. I don't really think there's anything to do that can prepare one for that.

Though I did jump straight back in about 1/2 an hour later.

Though all the factors mentioned certainly play a role, and randomness is also likely, I'm going to have to put my vote in for "pushed too hard." I did this once. It wasn't traumatizing, but the message was loud and clear. I was intrinsically informed that I need to respect the experience and have patience.

My advice is take a break for however long you think is necessary, then try again with positivity and good intentions.

But who knows? Every time I try to apply reason / methodology / explanation to the experience, I'm reminded that I'm not dealing with something that can't be defined by these terms.

Glad I'm not the only one haha. Did you ever feel that sensation again? I've felt it a few more times but not nearly as intense. Every time I've felt it again I've told my vision to back off and leave my mouth alone or I'll open my eyes and end the conversation. Seems to work, but I don't know if that's why the sensation dissipates.


It's interesting how it seems to communicate that you're over doing it. I had another interesting "shut out" this friday after going in several times. All my visuals had this appearance like doors slamming closed, things being thrown in my face, or someone throwing their hand up at you in a "talk to the hand" kind of gesture. It was like it was trying to constantly block my view into something deeper.

When it happened to me I could actually feel all my teeth melt and then come apart, then all the broken bits of teeth floating around in my mouth. It wasn't a visual sensation at all. I had to remind myself it was a hallucination as not to freak out as it was so convincing. I was right on the edge of breaking through and the world was terrifying and inexplicable with open eyes. I was holding on for dear life and talking myself through it... it was my first time.

I changed out my pipe after that and moved to a water pipe, it hasn't happened again.

Interesting. My first breakthrough just a few days ago also felt quite unpleasant. I'm pretty sure I ended up burning stuff. First time I hear about a potential connection.

If there is residue in the bottom mixed with pyrolysed products and such, would it be worth cleaning this out with some solvent and re-evaping?

I haven't smoked enough to have a sense for whether or not burnt spice has a consistent affect on the quality of the experience, but I've come across several posts here on the nexus besides this thread suggesting that it is linked to difficult experiences.

Besides that, this weekend I was experimenting with different methods for loading my GVG and ended up making a complete mess of the pipe. Every time I smoked after that, even when loading it correctly, I got a lung full of smoke that was coming from all the leftover burnt junk in the pipe. A small amount of IPA cleaned it up. I evaporated it but it looked pretty nasty so I just tossed it.

Weird, burnt DMT causing more difficult experiences? I've never had any bad trips from DMT whatsoever, just one weird one out of hundreds, all of which were out of a bowl with the sandwich method, (think I'll pick up a GVG but something about the way its shaped might trip me out, for example the colour white makes me think of mental hospitals when tripping, and the clear pipe might freak me out in a similar way especially with it being kind of shaped like flabby arm fat, but I digress...) was slightly difficult because I tried listening to The Doors and DMT yelled at me "How dare you, you think you can listen to MUSIC right now?" As if it were some meaningless toy obliterated by the prowess of DMT.

But yeah the only bad trip I've ever had, I was tired when I started, and took an accidentally way too high dose of mushrooms. Could be partially the reason why

I don't know. Maybe it's not worth analyzing any further. I don't know about mushrooms, but like I said about LSD, my hardest experiences have been on low doses, not high. Although I've found posts saying that high dose burnt dmt trips have been difficult, I've also seen mention of high dose trips that were fine. Perhaps another factor is just that it affects each of us differently and we need to determine our own individual usage boundaries with the substance.

It's funny you mention the GVG's shape. I initially thought it looked like it was designed to be shoved into one of a few different orifices. I would have preferred a wood model for aesthetics but I do find it useful to see when the vapor begins and ends. Usually it's all inhaled quite fast and a full inhale is not even necessary.

Can anyone else attest to the claim of burnt DMT causing bad trips? I find this hard to believe. My understanding is that burnt DMT is just wasted DMT. I don't really understand this theory from a straight chemistry perspective either. It's either DMT or it isn't, right? Also, isn't it kind of hard to burn DMT in a gvg since the heat source isn't directly on the spice?

Regarding the OP, I'm going to go with Occam's Razor for an explanation. 40g is a pretty significant dose. Your experience doesn't sound that surprising given the dose. I've heard of worse.

Well burnt/pyrolised DMT is a mixture of unknown substances some of them are totally inactive and some could be active(such as DMT oxide) and might cause negative effects..

And also burnt DMT is harmful and harsh to the lungs throat and mouth, this alone can bring big discomfort and affect the experience negatively, instead of flying comfortably you'd be feeling your throat and lungs melting for example.. i've had really terrifying trips where i felt my throat was perforated..