Hi all,

I find that my body cannot/ does not want a 3rd/4th inhale, and as a result I get to a crazy colours trip level (for about 4- 5mins) but have yet to 'breakthrough'.
My body feels "knocked out" and I start wanting to close my eyes and hand my bong to my trip sitter.

Any advice on 'pushing on through' to take that crucial extra inhale?
many thanks, D

(fyi - i use a home made bong from a plastic bottle/foil, use freebase, and use more than 60-90mg although i never use it all as per above)

This is exactly one of the advantages of freebasing over ayahuasca. With ayahuasca, it's too easy to take too much and then be stuck in an uncomfortable space for 3-4 hours. If your body/mind is telling you "ENOUGH!", listen. If you are having trouble with the harsh vapors, that's another issue, but don't try to go further than you are ready for. Have humility about it and know that hyperspace will be there if and when you are ready. Most likely, as you become familiar with it, things will change and further territory will open up to you.

Thanks for the advice.
I think its more due to never smoking before (never smoked tobacco, weed etc etc), but appreciate the sentiment re trusting your mind/body.
I have enjoyable trips and would regard myself as a very well balance individual. I think its like once I start tripping after 2nd large inhale, I almost forget what I am 'here' to do (i.e. hyperspace/obe etc). You lose your intention etc.

Thanks

Expect nothing, embrace everything. Having set intentions are good but when you are in the thick of it all, making sure you are in a comfortable place and in a good mindset beforehand are more important than trying to push it further when you can't physically do so. Like you said, you sort of lose your original intention as it gets harder to focus on taking hits. The DMT flash is pretty short acting so when you get that urge to close your eyes again, go with the flow and close them, sit back, relax, breathe, and enjoy the ride.

I would highly recommend looking into another way to vape your DMT. You'll get more bang for your buck, need less hits, and could likely cut your dosages in half. Most here consider 60mg a pretty hefty dose when vaporized fully and correctly.

Peace

I echo TGO above, you serious maybe look into another vaping mechanism. I use a simple "straight shooter" (glass tube), and sandwich material between two pieces of copper mesh, and can get to where i want to go in one hit, typically with less than 50mg.

I've never been able to do the multiple hit thing, once it comes on and i exhale a fractal rainbow cloud, i freak out a little and hand over the pipe.

As a new user, I was completely successful in my first attempt with a "machine". It was easy to make, and almost free. I can't imagine why you wouldn't get your full dose in one almost tasteless toke.

Yeah i agree with the others. Bin the plastic bottle/foil thing and get a decent vaping device. A vapour genie. Or make yourself a machine. Get your vaping technique right and you probably won't need a second toke, let alone a 3rd or a 4th.

i'd like to chime in here...

when i first began i had only changa and did not want to combust anything in the house so i used an electronic vape. i had varying success; sometimes it would work well, other times it would not. many hits were required; i thought i was getting there. i was wrong.

after i began extracting and having my own FB, i learned how to use the GVG correctly. i then learned where this molecule truly takes us.

when one gets technique right, one hit is all that is needed most of the time. if you can't see your hand, the pipe or the room anymore, another hit is superfluous.

my opinion.

Hi,

I have the problem that after the first toke (I don't have a huge breathing volume), my body kinda freezes (not in a uncomfortable sense) and I somehow drift off from real world (but doesn't break through). Due to this I also hold my first toke probably very long in. There's surely no smoke coming out, when I then suddenly get aware what I'm doing and then exhale.
(Meanwhile I get extremely fast visuals, of which I actually cannot see really anything, as it's that fast. Like a slide show where every pic is only shown for a fraction of a second, before the next appears [CEV]. OEV everything gets a geometric shape, but I can hardly keep my eyes open)

Then I have kinda big problems taking the 2nd toke, as I cannot really breath anymore consciously (It's like I'm decoupled from any complex body controls). I more consciously just press my belly out and somehow air gets sucked in from my mouth. But the 2nd toke is kinda like a burning/harsh/stinging sensation, so that I always immediately have to cough. I only manage to take another toke and hold it in when already the effects get weaker.

Any advice, what I could try?
BTW: I'm not a smoker, and never have smoked...

BTW: I'm currently using a flowermate vaporizer with the wax capsules, as it has been recommended by a fellow comrade, which had a lot of success with that.
And I probably also would be successful, if I only would manage to take a 2nd toke...
I really don't want to use any smoking tek which needs open fire...or hot parts...

If the second hit is significantly more harsh than the first, then I would say you are running too hot and/or your device has too much heat retention. DMT oxides have that harsh stinging quality. I find that with an oil burner, I have exactly the same problem.

Having someone there to help with liftoff is not only the safe way to proceed, but they can assist you to push further once you are already in and take the device from you once you achieve orbit. As of yet, I have been unable to fully leave reality without some assistance. It usually takes me 3-4 inhalations, but after 2 I can barely function and further attempts result in mostly DMT oxides in my throat and lips making me feel like I just tried to drink something caustic.

an added point:

it's not just correct device/vaporization technique - it's also integral that one develop correct breathing technique.

begin to learn some breathing exercises - in yoga practice it's called "pranayama"; translated as "life-force restraint/regulation"

it will serve you well, helping you to control how long your inhale can last. this insures that one can actually clear the amount loaded in said device - usually in one puff, greatly reducing the need/desire for further hits.

these practices will also help strengthen and expand the associated muscles (diaphragm, abdominal and intercostal muscles) for greater capacity, as well as longer retention - in other words, holding the hit in longer.

namaste!

Learn to take bigger hits so that less hits are needed, two preferably. The name of the game is to get massive tokes, and hold them 15+ seconds or as long as humanly possible [unless that experience decides to hit you hard and fast for whichever reason lol]. Try not to blow them out prematurely. Also if you're taking 4-5 hits, that's typically far too many for a given time frame, which can lend itself to being much more difficult to breakthrough and an 'on the cusp' experience.

And yeah the plastic bottle w/e foil - ditch that and invest in a more efficient smoking device, there's many threads throughout the forum that cover this, especially the smoking' and changa' sections. You could make some enhanced leaf; check out the 'smoking' section of the forum, there should be threads on making enhanced leaf.

It doesn't get much more efficient than the glass vapor genie imo/ime. Hot air passing over the freebase crystals from the inhale is far superior in terms of effects once you get the hang of it - in comparison to freebase dmt crystals being directly touched by a hot flame or surface. Convection > Conduction. Ime, once I switched over to a GVG, the lightyears in difference of effect - in terms of experience and the speed and intensity at which it comes on is massive, and the consistency in intensity was very high.

You could also use a small about 1ft tall bong with ice ice cold water and use the sandwich method -leaf/dmt/leaf, long slow pulls and the same rules to the hits apply as above.

Ice cold water in a small bubbler or bong is a great way to take massive tokes and not nearly be as intense on the throat n' lungs. Ice cold water' can't be stressed enough imo.

Hope you find a method that works very well for you.

For those of us with allergies and/or asthma, breathing excercises don't do any good. I've tried the pranayama excercises and it made my allergies worse for a few hours after. I have recently moved away from all the cedar and mold that has been kicking my ass for years so it shouldn't be as much of an issue, but until now I have had to clear my nose mechanically, use saline solution to clear my sinuses, and then use menthol to loosen all the rest of the mucus in my trachea and lungs before liftoff. The pranayama excercises only succeeded in irritating and inflaming my airways due to all the crap in the air.
Even with weed, I have to take smaller hits until I get where I want. If I take a huge rip, I get chest and trachea pain for the next 30 minutes that negates any positive effects from the high.
And all of this is despite being a moderately successful runner. Finishing a 10k in 45 minutes takes a lot of oxygen.

Bottom line; If you can get there in one or two hits, good for you but some of us just don't have the capacity to inhale 50mg of harsh DMT vapor in a single lung full or 100mg in two. I'm going to try the sub-ohm e-cig someday which should improve the situation, but with an oil burner and being very careful not to burn it, 50mg in a single hit would be a guaranteed bad trip from the chest pain and irritation.

I suffer from allergy/asthma and any hint of burnt DMT has resulted in me feeling wheezy. This almost put me off vaping it completely.
I would recomend you try a vapour genie. I bought one and sometimes i can't even tell that i have inhaled the vapour. No harshness, just warm slightly flowery tasting air and with the right technique no more than 30mgs taken in one hit should get you where you want to go. The classic vapour genie is not too pricey but maybe needs a bit more practice than the glass vapour genie, as with the gvg you can watch the vaporisation process happening (atleast that's what i assume as i have never used a gvg).

Would you recommend that over a good sub-ohm e-cig? I'm hearing good things about them.

Also, I need to find a device that allows my GF to see hyperspace as well. She has unreal tolerance issues with many drugs including DMT. She has had ayahuasca 6 times and only ever feels the harmalas and maybe just a touch of DMT on the larger doses. I took half as much as her and was fully gone from reality.

When I gave her freebase DMT in an oil burner, she consumed over 200mg over about 10 minutes and managed to see some pretty colors/patterns and some tentacles but never even close to loosing ego, let alone reality. For me, that level is usually around 20mg. I suspect that her hyperspace dose for ayahuasca is going to be 5-10 times normal or somewhere around a quarter to half a gram. So yea, I need a device capable of vaporizing half a gram smoothly in 5 minutes or less.

This is one of the reasons I quit drinking. I always drink alone with her unless she's chugging vodka. She has about 5 times normal tolerance for ethanol.

As I have a vaporizer, I don't think that this is the problem. As also, when I'm not tripping as hard again (coming down a bit), I have no problems taking another toke, and then it doesn't feel harsh at all. Actually I also don't find the DMT taste bad at all, I kinda like it.

It seems just that due to already strongly tripping from the first toke, the sensual input perception is such altered that then inhaling DMT feels very stingy.

I just read in the "Ayahuasca Analogues" that there they recommend only holding the first toke 2-3secs, exhale and then immediately take the 2nd toke and then hold that for a long time.
Kinda strange. But honestly. Mayybe this tek could help me. Will try it next time, although it seems a bit like a waste.

I cannot comment on the efficacy of the sub ohm type of e-cig as i have not tried one. Once i got my VG i was so happy with the results that i have stuck with it over the years.
It is simple, which appeals to me. I remember reading a description on the forum that it was "a devastatingly efficient device" and this is true for me. But the best thing about it is that i can be rocketed into god knows where with no discomfort to my chest.

As for your G/F, maybe the sub ohm route would suit her tolerance but i will say that spacing a dose out over minutes or several tokes has not resulted in a breakthrough for me. Tolerance builds up quickly over the minutes and the action of having to take multiple vapes can be distracting from the job at hand.
If i am in the correct head space 25mg, one toke = breakthrough. It has to be one long drawn out inhale and i understand that there are those of us that do not have a healthy set of lungs. As well as asthma i have one side of my chest that is more compressed than the other after having broken all of my ribs, which also left me with a collapsed lung, on that particular side a few years ago. This, at times, feels physically restricting when i take deep breaths. In order to be able to inhale and hold the dose in for the maximum amount of time i take a few deep breaths before the vape.

This is just my opinion. I don't want to push you away from the sub ohm if it could be the better solution for you and your G/F. If you have the funds why not get both and experiment? The Glass vapour genie is more expensive than the classic but, as i said before, you have the added bonus of being able to see your product vapourise, which speeds up the ability of perfecting the vaping technique.

I have found that anything over about 10 seconds is just holding your' breath for no good reason and just makes it take longer to prepare for the next inhalation.

many thanks for all your comments.

I'll look into purchasing a Vapor Genie.

I always read that you needed to hold in the breath for c.20/30 seconds, do you think 10 seconds is enough? As you say, given the body builds up a tolerance quickly, i'd imagine the quicker you get 'in', the better.

Thanks

I have a similar situation. I did an mhrb extraction and made some enhanced leaf. One big hit from a regular glass pipe twists me up so hard I can hardly comprehend my hands, much less get it together to load and take another hit, not to mention that sudden sensation of the air being removed from the room and being disconnected from the sensation of breathing.

Anyway, Pyramids and Casinos but no breakthrough, so I got a small bubbler and ordered a Vapocane, hoping to get to Hyperspace in one hit.