analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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the cloudiness is due to microemulsions. from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula? I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4612 Joined: 17-Jan-2009 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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benzyme wrote:the cloudiness is due to microemulsions. from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula?
I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS. @Benz Quick question, I have this other container of klean strip naphtha, same as this recent container I used, though it doesn't 'smell' the same as the other [is there a typical naphtha smell?], although this 'different smelling' naphtha evaporates clean [poured a little onto a glass dish and it left absolutely no trace, film, nothing]. Why would there be a contrast in how it smells? Fine to use?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 45 Joined: 20-Nov-2016 Last visit: 13-Apr-2018
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I would really like to know how much the VM&P is around where you live guys. It's freaking expensive around here?! This world is a hoax! Go for it and create your own reality...
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 45 Joined: 20-Nov-2016 Last visit: 13-Apr-2018
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benzyme wrote:the cloudiness is due to microemulsions. from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula?
I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS. Yeah that sounds like a reason. So...when my naphta leaves no traces...is it fine to use? I already ordered a cleaner alternative. Best thing would be pure hexane but it's not that easy to purchase. This world is a hoax! Go for it and create your own reality...
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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tatt wrote:benzyme wrote:the cloudiness is due to microemulsions. from the linked pdf's, it looks like they added some polymers to the formula?
I'd screen naphtha, but I don't have an APCI interface. I can only test ionizable solvents. this is a job for GCMS. @Benz Quick question, I have this other container of klean strip naphtha, same as this recent container I used, though it doesn't 'smell' the same as the other [is there a typical naphtha smell?], although this 'different smelling' naphtha evaporates clean [poured a little onto a glass dish and it left absolutely no trace, film, nothing]. Why would there be a contrast in how it smells? Fine to use? is it a light, or medium (weight) naphtha? medium naphtha contains some aromatics, and has a higher boiling point range. vm&p (light naphtha) has a distinctive lighter fluid smell. it is a mixture of short-chain aliphatic hydrocarbons, including iso-aliphatics. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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The can of naphtha that I was able to repeat the cloudy vinegar test with was used for A/B extraction as well as recrystalization and I can tell you that the final product was super clean. I have done many A/B extractions and this was possibly the cleanest. Whatever chemicals were added, if it was intentional, is likely to control evaporation rate.
Possibly if we want to remove said chemicals, acid washes could be done until washing solution comes out clear but that seems like it may be completely unnecessary.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 45 Joined: 20-Nov-2016 Last visit: 13-Apr-2018
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Well the naphta i used was totally fine with the evap. test. But it left my vinegar cloudy. Today i took a look in the freezer...and i expected some crytals but I got clumps. One of them is huge. It looks like a piece of sugar which disolves in tea. I'm not really sure what that means This world is a hoax! Go for it and create your own reality...
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4612 Joined: 17-Jan-2009 Last visit: 07-Mar-2024
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benzyme wrote:
is it a light, or medium (weight) naphtha? medium naphtha contains some aromatics, and has a higher boiling point range. vm&p (light naphtha) has a distinctive lighter fluid smell. it is a mixture of short-chain aliphatic hydrocarbons, including iso-aliphatics.
here's from the msds: ○ attached the following image(s): 456.png (22kb) downloaded 320 time(s).
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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After letting the naptha and about 20% aceitic acid sit for a couple days, both are clear and shaking/inverting causes only normal light emulsions. I will let the whole thing evaporate and see if there is any residue. My assumption is that only if there is some sort of salt or oil left behind from the aqueous solution that we have anything to worry about.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation
Good news: This salt can be analyzed
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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is that just from adding vinegar to vm&p? I may have to try this. just picked up a qt. of kleen strip today. i can definitely test salts. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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Boundary condition
Posts: 8617 Joined: 30-Aug-2008 Last visit: 07-Nov-2024 Location: square root of minus one
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syberdelic wrote:Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation
Good news: This salt can be analyzed
Have you evaped a sample of the acetic acid alone, without mixing with the naphtha first? i.e. testing a blank “There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work." ― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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downwardsfromzero wrote:syberdelic wrote:Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation
Good news: This salt can be analyzed
Have you evaped a sample of the acetic acid alone, without mixing with the naphtha first? i.e. testing a blank I will try it, but I'd bet money that it comes out clear.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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benzyme wrote:is that just from adding vinegar to vm&p? I may have to try this. just picked up a qt. of kleen strip today. i can definitely test salts. Yes, give it a shot. If yours doesn't go cloudy, I can send you some of the salts that I recovered.
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Chairman of the Celestial Divison
Posts: 1393 Joined: 21-Jul-2010 Last visit: 11-Aug-2024 Location: the ancient cluster
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syberdelic wrote:downwardsfromzero wrote:syberdelic wrote:Bad news: There is an acetate salt residue from the aqueous solution after full evaporation
Good news: This salt can be analyzed
Have you evaped a sample of the acetic acid alone, without mixing with the naphtha first? i.e. testing a blank I will try it, but I'd bet money that it comes out clear. keep in mind 'distilled white vinegar' isn't always as clean as it looks, some dissolved organics, could leave a residue, so do a control test too if you do EDIT: Wow I literally did not read the post or I read it and saw something else. Exactly that was said, My mistake! Expect nothing, Receive everything. "Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). " He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita "The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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And this is not grocery store vinegar. It is glacial acetic acid diluted with distilled water to 20%. The label claims 99.8%.
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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you could send me some salts, and I will attempt an experiment with HCF Vinegar, and Kleen Strip VM&P. I still have that Kodak Glacial Acetic Acid, so I could try that as well. again..this has to be a salt, or ionizable solvent, for me to run through electrospray. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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It has to be an acetate salt of something that is soluble in naphtha and boils under 130F. The salt form obviously has a much higher boiling point.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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The acetic acid does indeed evaporate entirely, leaving nothing behind so the residue is most definitely being pulled from the naphtha.
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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I'm screening it now. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah "Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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