Hello nexians, I thought I'd ask this here, I know there are a few salvianauts on here that might be able to lend there opinion.

I'm looking to try my first quid tomorrow night if all goes to plan. i have the house to myself and can get some peace and quiet for a few hours without any disturbances in complete darkness and I feel the time is right after I have had at least 20-30 sessions with the Shepherdess using the bridge of smoke (AKA smoked plain leaf).

I'm longing for a longer hang time in her space, more time to learn her strange and beautiful ways. I'm shooting for a light visionary state that can be reached with the right dose and combined meditation and focus (plus intent).

My question is, being that I am a massive salvia softhead with a real low tolerance, I can get to the light visionary level at a dosage of 50mg plain leaf smoked. Looking on erowid and elsewhere on the net I see that the general dosage for a quid of dried leaves (that are later reconstituted in water) to be around 10 times the dose that you would use for a smoked dose of similar intensity of effects.

So I was thinking a dose of around 500-600mg of dried leaf (about 4 medium palm sized leaves after I weighed) would put me at the same level as my smoked dose, being that is ten times my usual one, does this sound about right?

Have you guys found from experience that you need more than ten times the amount of dried leaf for a quid compared to smoking?

Thanks for your time fellow nexians!

An update:

So I quidded the planned on 600mg of reconstituted plain leaf quid/ball about an hour and a half ago. I achieved a level 1 experience. Subtle, but definitely imbued with the salvia essence. Completely different than smoked, less novelty and feels more like I was sorting through mental hangups and finding solutions in an honest, clear headed way, a teaching from the Shepherdess if you will. I had some body effects, what I call the salvia fingers, kind of an electric buzzing felt in the extremities. Meditation and quieting of the mind came easier too.

It started coming on about 10-15 minutes after I placed the quid in my mouth and peaked for about a half hour with residual effects for a further half hour. I spat it out after a half hour, it was hard to keep the quid/ball together in my mouth without it breaking apart... the taste wasn't as bad as I expected, pungent but I could tolerate it and appreciate it in a weird plant essence kind of way.

An hour after I had taken the quid I smoked some harmalas then a small 25mg dose of some plain leaf Sally. It came on slower, had a slower pace than normal and dwindled out slower too. Definitely different smoking after a quid, it extends it and slows it down for sure.

I'm thinking 1 gram (about 20 times a smoked dose for me) next time should shoot me into a more visionary experience. I enjoyed it for what it was and was an easy introduction into the longer slow dance with Lady Salvia, promising indeed.

My first few times quidding was pretty hit and miss, technique is a biggie. Theres a great guide on the forum somewhere thay clarified things for me when I was getting mixed results. I believe it was written by jamie. If I werent at work I would get the topic for you. I have always needed 8 or so leaves for medium effects which if I remember was about double what the guide recommended. That could be because I dont have as much reverse tolerance as the author. It could also be my technique, it seems to be the most crucial part. Your experience seems typical for me at about 5 big leaves if that's anything to go by. Good thing with quidding salvia is the gentle come on, though it gets so weird sometimes that ive stopped before I had finished all I had set aside. Hope this helps abit. Maybe someone with more experience could chime in?

A.

Thanks TheAwakening. Yeah, I had read jamies guide which was helpful. I made sure I chewed at my back wisdom teeth and sloshed the saliva around the back of my throat too and cheeks. It was tough because I had some smaller slightly broken up pieces of leaf too that broke up pretty quickly from chewing and were hard to keep in the quid. Using only full leaves would've helped. Though I noticed effects quicker than I thought and it built for the next ten minutes of the chewing.

On another note, I ended up with another night at home to myself tonight and remembered I had a home made tincture that I made about 6 months ago. Not wanting to waste a quiet night alone and my curiousity piqued to the buccal/sublingual route I thought I'd give the tincture a go. I went for one droppers worth, about 1 ml, which would equal around a half gram of leaf according to how I made it. This put me at a similar amount of leaf to last night but in tincture form.

I'm not sure if it was the ethanol in the tincture increasing absorption but I had a stronger experience than last night. I combined the tincture in a shot glass with some honey and a touch of hot water to create a slurry. It didn't burn no way near as bad as I expected, more of a tingle wherever I held it in my mouth (mostly under the tongue and the back of my tongue). The taste was fine, I could still taste the bitter plant essence but the honey helped offset it and I found the combination quite pleasant.

After 5-10 minutes I noticed first effects which quickly built into a beautiful and distinct altered, expanded and dissociated headspace. I had on my mindfold and was listening to a epic, repetitive track by Acid Mothers Temple "Pink Lady Lemonade (You're so sweet)" which really helped give me a directed focus because of its trancey nature. The music had deepened quite noticeably and gained extra meaning as the sage had her way. I had the buzzing Salvia fingers happening in my extremities again. I didn't quite get to a visual stage but I felt consumed by the plant essence, the bitter/sweet tincture held in my mouth enhanced this feeling also. After half an hour I swallowed the tincture and rode out the rest of the peak for another 15 minutes and felt back to baseline (besides a nice afterglow) an hour after first putting the tincture in my mouth.

Deeper meditative mind states came really easy, verging on heading into a deeper meditative void/blackness several times. I took off my mindfold at one point and looked out my balcony doors onto the moonlit neighbourhood from my vantage point on the hill and found it quite striking, definitely more than usual. When I put my mindfold back on I found I went back into the deepened salvia space real easy, I like the ability to choose when to go deeper with the sublingual route, much more control is put into your mind compared to smoked.

I prefer tincture to quid, easier to hold in the mouth when combined with the honey and hot water and I found it less distracting not having to chew every few minutes and try and hold the quid together. Just hold in mouth and wait. I like how it came on quicker too. Definitely going for two droppers next time, that should put me at least into a light visual level on top what I experienced tonight. A beautiful, expansive experience and I feel really good right now, very calm, cleansed and centred

Thanks for that sharing your experience with your tincture Inner Paths. I've been wanting to try making a tincture out of crude extract for a while because apparently crude extracts help absorption. May I ask what kind of alcohol you used? I do have some 100 proof alcohol here but I don't think it would be enough and getting a hold of 190 or even 150 proof has proved challenging so far. Another route I thought was the glycerin tincture but I want to explore salvia-space with a known working tincture before I try experimenting.

Hey TheAwakening. I used Polmos Spiritus which is 95% alcohol. It's the only alcohol with that high a rating in Australia that you can get at a bottle shop. I let the leaf soak for at least a week so I would class it as crude - it would have all the plant extras, chlorophyl, etc that are meant to help with absorption. I used 5 grams of leaf and evapped down to 10ml of tincture so around a 1ml dropper full is equal to 500mg of leaf.

I need to get my sally cutting established so I can get surplus leaf to make more tincture and be set for life, the shepherdess is starting to feel like an Ally for me that has taken a liking to me and vice versa

So after a three year gap from my previous buccal experience with the lady I consumed some home made tincture last night again. What a beautiful experience...

I only had one dropper full of the tincture to test the waters but it was enough to experience her subtle yet strong ways (total softhead here, a little goes a long way for me). First effects manifested as a morphing of my perception of my body, I was lying down on my bed and felt my boundary of self stretch into a horizontal plane, it felt very much like I had become mulch over a garden bed.

Very therapeutically, I was able to get some great perspective on the mental pathways of how my ego works to undermine my connection to the moment and to other people. At one point as I thought that the effects had worn off and I just relaxed into the after moments, an internal voice was heard to say "I'll show you who you really are..." to which I felt some apprehension as my inner space dissolved and twisted into these beautiful but muted visuals of ancient archetecture. I realised I was scared of my true self and what lies below the surface of everyday consciousness and in that moment I was taught to trust in my true self and to confront the ugliness of ego games and accept the raw beauty of what lies at the core of me at all times, a core that is neither good nor evil, it just is...

To which I simply exclaimed "Magic mint eh?..."

IP, we're of a kind when it comes to SD. I can get subtle yet profound messaging with minimal tincture or a few rehydrated leaves quidded. Sometimes I'll smoke a bit of plain leaf to "finish" the session.

Fascinating how SD can bring a relatively shallow yet profound trance as one gains experience. Very ergonomic and simple to incorporate into a busy life. The relative brevity and ability to "exit" the trance state should it be necessary, make SD a super practical sacrament that can be used when time and ones functional capacity are at a premium.

I, like you am a real SD "soft head"(thankfully) and have found Her to be an ally that can be counted on to "lift the veil" gently yet reliably when used modestly. Smoked extracts seem more an ordeal, but do bring a familiarity that imprints a long term sensitization to Her effects such that subsequent "low dose" encounters can be realized.

In short, "Magic Mint".....true that!

Peace

Yes, the subtle but powerful effects of low to mid level buccal dosing are wonderful for a busier life as you can sit up from the trance and be almost back to baseline and functional but once you lie back down and let go you can enter the trance again. Wonderful plant ally