Hello this is my first post, i hope to get some good replys.

The question for this topic is - When i smoke dmt i get psychedelic visualls , Is the feeling psychedelic when you eat dmt ?

The mind produces dmt naturally when sleeping and at times of death.
Is it possible to administire dmt to some one who is already asleep ?
If it is , what do you think would be the effects once a person is sleeping already , would his dream be more intense would there be any harm done , would the person potentially reach enlightment?

Another question is what is the difference between the dmt produced by the pineal gland and the dmt extracted from plant material.
Is it truely the same ?
The reason i ask this question is i dont think we are ever awake when we experience the natural dmt produced by our pineal gland , if we are the feeling is different , so there must be a difference in potency or chemical form in the brain.

Hi Godscreator and welcome to the Nexus!

There is no evidence at all that dmt is produced by the pineal gland, or whether it is produced while we sleep or die. All these are just Strassman's hypotheses(=not facts).

dmt is however produced in the body in trace amounts yet its role is unclear. And yes, it is the same dmt that is found in plants. Just line the amino acids, nucleic acids, lipids are more-or-less the same between different organisms.

Hope that clarifies the situation!

There are many chemicals in the body, some very close to DMT in structure, so I wouldn't be surprised if DMT was a breakdown product of another chemical.

I have no strong strong feelings either way.

I imagine if you administered DMT to someone who is asleep they would wake up feeling very uncormfortable. I wouldn't recommend it.

Hmm if its somehow produced by our body, it may effect dreaming i guess. since delta waves occur in a deep dreamless sleep/REM or whatever, and due to neuromapping report ive read that you posted sumwhere, it says most slightly decreases are at delta, theta and beta-1 band. possible but hard to make such conclusion at all. I have been to a near death experience and i agree it starts with a white light and some speech kinda things may be heard, but again hard to relate it to dmt i guess. So for now i think its no more than just a theory, since we dont know at which dose the body is producing dmt or is it really producing

I dont believe in that stuff about Dmt on the brain. Even with low doses I see beautifull things, things I cant imagine even in my dream-meditation previous to sleep... I see things, but just like my common dreams, normal things, and dreams are not psychedelics, even my lucidDreams... So I thing human brain produces a very low dose every night or our dream molecule is not Dmt, maybe similar, but not Dmt.
Just my humble opinion.... Peace

Hello and welcome to the forum!

I took some pharmahuasca in capsules a while back. After two hours, nothing had happened, so I went to sleep. I woke up 30 minutes later tripping face, so at least in my case it caused an awakening...

this has been measured (in human plasma) quantitatively in the nanomolar region. what hasn't been determined is the measurement in vivo (as it's being produced).

it's commonly thought to occur in peripheral tissues rather than in cerebral tissues.

now, what is known to be produced by the pineal (aside from melatonin) is pinoline. that is more than likely what is produced when the third-eye is awakened, rather than DMT. the pineal gland simply lacks expression of the enzymes for dmt production

wow, interesting... can you give us some link or more info about that ? please!

info on what, pinoline?

or the tryptophan metabolic pathway?

see 2.1.1.49? that's INMT (indole-n-methyl transferase), it is not expressed in the pineal gland. completely different pathway

here's an example of new-age quackery on the internet; a compilation of ideas tailored to conveniently fit someone's utopian ideals.

enzymes don't magically appear and express themselves when someone does yoga or has a lucid dream

I must agree benzyme just because the pineal gland has the required components to create DMT doesn't mean that it does, a silly example of my logic is something like, a lawnmower factory wouldnt start making sports cars just because it had the required raw materials or vice versa for that matter. Nature is super crazy and im sure it is possible and I certainly don't think I know more than someone with a PhD in the field however it never seemed to logically add up to me.

My own dreams potentially could be psychedelic because occasionally they are reminiscent of tryptamines however they seem more easily matabolized or more refined for the purpose of dreaming. Further my dream realities are often backwards reality themes that remind me more of the effects of high doses of mushrooms but that is only my own opinion.

that's the thing...it most likely doesn't.
it contains the latter products in a different pathway, with a completely different methylating enzyme

well that person with the Ph.D doesn't have all the answers either. He merely proposed hypotheses, which many people misinterpreted as accepted scientific facts.



dreams are commonly thought of as artifacts of memories, acetylcholine has a major role in both memory and dreaming.
Even Dali, as psychedelic as his paintings were, attributed his style to dreams and memories.

DMT has been found in the cerebral spinal fluid. Furthermore Barker et al. have shown that it does exhibit properties of a classical neurotransmitter. It has also been found in peripheral tissue fluids. it is found in both normal and psychotic patients with no significant differences. Work is currently underway to advance and clarify the findings and discover its true role.

Due to its properties and presence in the CNS it is very likely that DMT is an endogenous transmitter. While it is not known what this endogenous DMT does, several hypothesis have been proposed. Remember cannabinoids and opiates were both known before their endogenous systems were discovered and understood. Furthermore their activities told us something about the role their endogenous counter-parts play in physiology. Strassman's views are theories and lack any real evidence. There are other theories that are more logical in my eyes. Strassman is a very logical person and is open to these other theories. His views are taken as true by the new age pop culture.

There are no known larger molecules that contain the DMT skeleton. There are other tryptamines but not methylated ones. DMT maybe a metabolite of tryptamine (tryptamine receptors are known) although it is generally not a good idea to make active metabolites (unless they are not true metabolites). Even though it is found in low levels this does not mean it is not an active transmitter. The site of release and its local concentrations are all that matters. Endogenous DMT may only be used at a small select number of neural synapses (regions). Thus the low levels.

I assume you mean methylated derivatives of dmt; NMT is an intermediate, and INMT also methylates serotonin. look at the KEGG pathway

All this brain chemistry is extremely interesting to me, but I don't have much of a background in metabolic pathways/biology. so if I am reading this correctly, tryptophan can lead to N-methylserotonin, which is an analog of N,N-DMT (I see that serotonin has an additional hydroxy group as well as lacking a N-methyl group)? the enzymes which catalyze the creation of this molecule (neurotransmitter) don't occur in the pineal gland?

could someone expand on the peripheral tissue? does that mean skin?

lots of questions I know, but I'm a chemist so I'm used to everything being in a shiny glass tube.

see that pathway that converts tryptamine to N-methyltryptamine? well, it's thought double-pass metabolism of tryptamine occurs to further convert it to DMT. see how it's a completely separate pathway from serotonin --> melatonin?
INMT (E.C. # 2.1.1.49) isn't expressed in the pineal gland, and i've yet to see any lit. that claims otherwise.

peripheral tissues are non neural-tissues; the currently accepted theory is that INMT is expressed in these (lung, adrenal, and muscle tissues). evidence for its expression in the brain is scant

ah I see. good to know, I had previously been under the assumption that DMT caused dreams and the like. is there any research on what activity or function it has then?

there are several studies out there, but the function of DMT remains a mystery. although it's been detected in human plasma, MAO oxidizes it, so it doesn't stay around long. some is excreted in urine

it's been shown to bind different receptors, such as the g-coupled trace amine receptors, 5HT, and sigma-1

After discovering DMT ive practically gone on a learning binge and have come across several interesting facts/theories. Please post some of you knowledge if you come across this thread.

DMT is highly suggested to come from the pineal gland in the brain. This gland has long been known as the 'third eye' or the 'seat of the soul' throughout cultures and religions.

The pineal gland is located in the very center of the brain between the lobes and is very close to nerve cells/neurotransmitters (name escapes me, i believe it is collisuli or something) that is wildly responsible for visuals, auditory and regulates emotional feelings, it is only separated from the pineal by a thin layer of cerebrospinal fluid.

We do factually know that melatonin (i believe also a very mild hallucinogenic) is created in the pineal gland, however it has no reason to be in the center of the brain. It could be in the back of the neck or by the spine and be able to do its job just as efficiently. For DMT effects to be imminent and precise however, its location is crucial.

As we know, DMT is released in times of extreme high stress and near death experiences as well. But why not with only mild stress or with mild adrenaline? The brain actively protects this little gland that is centered within our brain ferociously. The pineal gland actually creates a enzyme that acts as a barrier for adrenaline and other substances that could trigger DMT so we do not get full blast affects of DMT throughout our daily lives (imagine whenever you get excited or go run you fall down and enter the 'spiritual reality' A Very advanced defense mechanism we have evolved.

This defense mechanism can be overridden with extreme stress situations such as giving birth without anesthetics, near death, possibly when the baby is being born as well. It is known some newborn animals carry DMT with them, yet noone has tested mothers giving birth or the newborns for DMT traces.

The pineal becomes visible in a fetus in (i believe) 49 days, pretty much the exact time when we can see if the baby is male or female.

This may have been debunked and misleading: In the Buddhism practice, it takes 49(?) days for a soul to be reincarnated, the same amount of days it takes for the pineal to form.

VERY interesting... The pineal gland, although in the center and in a deep part of the brain, is not composed of brain tissue at all! In a fetus, the pineal grows in the top of the mouth, made out of specialized cells, and migrates to this deep area in the brain!

We know very little about the process of death. Are we dead with our final breath? does our mind keep ticking for a while? Is the pineal gland releasing DMT and easing us into the spiritual world from our biological body? Is this why some traditions not move/disturb or bury the dead for a period of time?

So many questions, no research being conducted for answers. Being the curious creatures we are, this is very odd. Please add to this list and feel free to correct me anywhere where i may have gone wrong in the post, imma little tired :idea:

I wouldn't say DMT is highly suggested to come from the pineal gland. I'd say it has been theorized with 0 evidence to back it up.

It's all interesting stuff though.