Something that is very odd about cactus, is that the effects seem to change and vary dependant on dose.

In low amounts, cactus, especially peyote, has effects that are close to that of MDMA,MDEA,methylone and the other XTC's. I don't know if mescaline itself is responsible for this, or whether it are the other phenethylamines that can be found in cacti.

In larger amounts though, the effects will change dramatically. Here the comparison with ayahuasca, DMT or mushrooms is more apropriate.

Apparently there is a threshold where something interesting happens. Maybe the mescalin starts to overpower the effects of the other phen's, maybe the effects mescalin has on a certain receptor or multiple receptors require e threshold to become noticeable, that is higher then the threshold for some other receptors.
Who knows?

Another idea i have on this, is that it's not the phen's but some MAOI compounds that aslo occur in cacti. One of the typical effects of XTC is an increased level of serotonin, wich is exactly what MAO-b-inhibitors can accomplish.

There is something else that points to this direction: The initial effects of ayahuasca, the first noticeable effects, can also resemble the effects of XTC and they definately resemble the effects of small amounts of cactus. The harmaline's are MAOI's an cause an increase of serotonin levels.

This leads me to thinking that the combination of MAOI activity and a mixture of phenethylamine's is responsible for the XTC-like effects of low doses.

Higher amounts of mescalin leads to exactly the opposite: a decrease of serotonergic activity by downregulation of serotonin receptors as a consequence of mescaline's 5-ht2 activity.
It seems there is a point where the balance of the scale is being tipped into the other direction.

When you think how much cacti have been cross bred over the years there's no wonder they all have such different effects. My experience is only with Pachanoii, but just looking at the contents you come across a lot of odd stuff in all psy-cacti.

As for the variation on effects with dose, this is very typical of all substances. I think it stands out more with cacti because the psychoactive effects are very subtle or "invisible" as I like to say, then only at higher doses do the seams really start to split.

Mushrooms were quite the same for me also, because they are all very different and low doses just make me feel giddy, but with high doses... well you know that old story.

I still feel that safe feeling with cactus even with quite high doses, as opposed to the run behind the couch syndrome I get with tryptamines.

actually I'm interested to read this I've wondered this myself... SWIM has a lot of experiences with all kinds of stims and RC's and thought his tolerance was moderate to high... but 800mg of mescaline acetate distributed over 6-8 hrs caused the most unpleasant hyperactive experience of his life... has had better experiences since with low doses of pure hcl, 80mg was like MD, 160mg was nicer but caused a bit of nausea at the peek which could've been anxiety... really tempted to try may 200mg hcl + 200mg thh at the same time.... is it true that there is a threshold for the "true" mescaline effect? or was that hypermania thing mescaline cuz that sucked big time...

will prolly try this anyway with benzos handy, but if you have the experience let me know.. I'm guessing it's an under dosage and I probably need the equivalent of 500mg pure at once to get it.

I think a good strong dose of nice cactus is visually on par with dmt but with much less anxiety... for me anyway. Though my friends don't seem to get visuals from mescaline at the doses we've tried so far, they just got the stimulation and general feeling of well-being.

I was near enough talking to the fireplace

SWIM definitely noticed a shift in effects with 230mg of cleaned hcl. Four hours in OEV were apparent and very fluid. It was very psychedelic and SWIM was very surprised at how different it was, it seemed far more than a double up of 100.

Ibeing perhaps the other alkaloids present aren't for SWIY. If pedro was used that 800mg could have contained 400mg of non mesc alks, thats a hell of a lot. SWIM doesn't like them much at all. But in saying that, 4 or 5 hours into it SWIY should have been totally immersed in colors and visions. 400mg of mesc is a heck of a lot.... That would be a completely immersive experience for SIWM. So perhaps there are some other factors SWIY should look at. Was it SWIY who said they were on SSRI's?

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Ibeing. I will concur with info found on this site about harmalas dampening the stim effects of at least T.Pach(only cacti swim is fam with). For me, ~35mg of caapi copy under the tongue about an hour or two after peak def took the 'edge' off. Gave the experience a bit more 'love', if you will, also.
If its available to you, then I suggest a trial. Its always been a loving friend to the spice and now having tried it with T.Pach, I plan on having alot more on hand.

Good luck,

J

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Thanks for the replies, that's great info... SWIM extracted from torch, torch was used for both the acetate and the hcl extracts, SWIM knows the acetate pulled a lot of other alkaloids, and actually the evidence is pretty clear when the same batch was used for an hcl extraction, actually SWIM cant remember the exact figures but a lot came out over the course of a month, I think it was over 5g actually but what SWIM remembers most is that on the first wash with acetone, that 5g came down a lot, to something like 1.5g, the propol wash took another 300mg....

SWIM let the acetone evap and what was left was pretty disgusting actually it was dark brown crystals and what looked like oil crystals, weird... the propol evapped a nice white/grey crystal... if SWIM had to guess, the dark stuff is dodgy there was a lot of it... so the acetate was full of it....

The pure hcl stuff was pretty nice actually, SWIM loved the lower dose.. and the nausea at the higher dose was fine, SWIM's chest got tight, abdomen tense, breathing deeply through it helped and like I said, I think SWIM was just getting a bit of fake anxiety caused by the nightmare from before... it may have been the feeling of being on the verge of something, after all 140mg of pure hcl is a low dose right? and you have to figure even less negative alkaloids are present.

SWIM thinks THH200+MESC200 (+benzos just in case) sounds good because it may just remove the tension and racyness of the experience... I must say though, SWIM has noticed a positive rebound effect of the acetate nightmare, as with most bad trips, this was an anti-drug experience, but also as I've written about before, SWIM's body ticks seem to have disappeared which is really saying something.

SWIM is on no SSRI's, no medications actually...

Haha ya cacti are the best in my opinion. Mescaline hcl in doses above 600mg are actually pretty sedating. This also happens when eating alot of torch flesh but not so much with the others i have tried... Anyone else notice this?

ahh good good..... SWIM found that keeping busy for the first half of the experience was helpful... Playing with his dog or walking outside etc.... But the last half was quite relaxed in comparison

"T. bridgesii apparently contains Kaempferol and Quercetin, both said to be MAOI."
found here - http://www.entheogen.com...um/showthread.php?t=8266

Do not mix this cactus with cocoa ever. Never had a headache hurt so bad for so long. Intense nausea as well.

cacao or coca ? caus swim finds cacao beans/nibs to greatly intensifiy mesc - moreso then coffee. very enjoyable.

I also never noticed anything unpleasant with chocolate or pure theobromine.