Hello friends,

I have some experience with rue and mushrooms (~20 dreams) but I have yet to use mushrooms as light with Vine.....

I have dosed oral dmt with both these maoi sources.

For me, Mushrooms with Rue is very different from Mushrooms alone.

Is Mushrooms with Vine very different in effects to Mushrooms with Rue?

For some reason it does not seem to be a highly reported combination and the few reports I have encountered report literally awesome results......

Anybody here have insight with regard to this?

I remember terence mckenna telling a story about taking 1/2 a dose of psilocybin, and half a dose of ayahuasca, and having it induce "one of the longest nights" of his life...totally overwhelmed...

In his book "true hallucinations" mckenna also describes "The Experiment of La Chorrera" this is where cannabis, ayahuasca, psilocybe fungi, and vocal frequencies were combined...I'll let you assess the results of that event...

Any way, I've never combined psilocybin and an MAOI, and because of the multiple warnings from those who have, I would be very careful in such experimentation...

Though you are speaking of harmala alkaloids and psilocin without any DMT, correct?

How have your experiments gone?

What quantity of what plant was used?

-eg

I have combined rue with both mushrooms about 20 times and one time with mushrooms and an acacia confusa brew.....

Last time I spoke mentioned the doses I took I was ostracized by other members so......

DISCLAIMER: I do not recommend ingesting anything let alone the doses I am about to mention.

I always too between 2 and 4 grams of rue and always with my standard mushrooms doses (between 2g and 10g of dried cubes) ….

The experience was significantly altered. It became even more incredible. (With rue and mushrooms without dmt)
First, the duration almost doubled and the intensity was up about 60%
Then, for the first two or three hours (guessing that’s down to the rue’s duration) the experience became less euphoric, less colorful, and more “serious” or “shamanic” feeling - Telepathic communication with plants and animals.

The remaining 5 or so hours went back to the euphoric mushroom, colorful mushrooms experience, while losing none of the intensity. The tail end of an eighth of mushrooms with rue felt like the tail end of a 5g mushroom experience….
The visuals also took on a more “dmt-ish” grainy digitalized look…….

The downside is that the reduction in euphoria makes it easier for those of us less experienced in mental grounding to lose touch with inner peace....it's harder to not let the anxiety take over sometimes when one is in a such a strong psychedelic environment without soothing euphoric feelings.....I would say that high doses of psilohuasca should be reserved to super experienced travelers, but if one is accustomed to taking 3-5g of cubes, he/she should be fine adding a couple grams of rue to their eighth........

I absolutely love mushrooms with caapi. To me, the caapi enhances euphoria. A lot. There is just so much more warmth and feeling. I find mushrooms by themselves realy lacking on the emotional plain, but not with caapi. I have done it dozens of times, and had only one negative experience. I don't think it's any more risky than 'normal' ayahuasca.

I haven't tried them with rue. I think the diminished euphoria described in the post above
could have three causes:A-toxins in p.cubensis. Some shrooms just happen to contain other tryptamines beside psilocin. Some could maybe affect the experience negatively in combination with harmala alkaloïds. Therefore it's best to try a very 'clean' species of shroom like p.cyanensis. B-Toxins in rue. Rue contains other substances beside harmala-alkaloïds, wich contribute significantly to things like nausea. C-Harmaline. Harmaline is chemically very close to ibogaïne, and may have simmilar effects when large amounts are taken. NMDA-antagonism has effects, in some sense opposite to the effects typical of psychedelic's. Visuals may be diminished. As well as euphoria.

i prefer them with rue, and some changa at the peak. for me mushes with caapi allways have darker scenarios, while rue (extracted alks in fact) enhance the visions, and the colors, and its like the rue adds all this lines that connect me to everything.
caapi and shrromz i only took in the end of ayahuasca cerimonies, and it quite good but I end up feeling more the caapi and less the shroomz.

How do you think the mono amine oxidase action of the harmala alkaloids is influencing the psilocybin?

-eg

Technically, any alkaloid found in peganum harmala is a "harmala alkaloid"

Psilocybe cyanescens is known to contain Baeocystin (4-phosphorloxy-N-methyl-tryptamine) as well as psilocybin and psilocin...

Baeocystin (4-phosphorloxy-N-methyl-tryptamine) and Norbaeocystin (4-hydroxy-N-methyl-tryptamine) are found in many species of psilocybin producing fungi. ( Including the "clean" fungi you mentioned ) and appear to be the only other alkaloids produced by these fungi.
(Inocybe aeruginascens produces the novel compound N,N,N-trimethyl-4-phosphoryloxytryptamine, though this compound is only found in a single species of mushroom, and thus is not relevant to the discussion, but was mentioned just out of being thorough...)

Very little is known about the pharmocological properties of these very minor components of psilocybe fungi, however, Jochen Gartz reports a 10mg dose of Baeocystin as being similar to a 10mg dose of psilocin...regardless, these compounds are present in very small quantity, and likely only have very minor influences regarding the experience, though some claim these compounds induce a more "sleepy" or "sedated" experience...

It would be interesting to experiment with Baeocystin and norbaeocystin as pure compounds, then as pure compounds in combination with an MAOI...I believe that 4-aco-NMT is available as a research chemical, this compound should metabolize to 4-HO-NMT or "norbaeocystin", this May be a means of experimentation....

I'm going off topic though...


-eg

Yeah, i knew about the beaocystin and norbeaocystin. P.azurescens, another favorite of mine, also is reported to contain those 'analogue's'. But sometimes there are other tryptamines present in shrooms as well. Tryptophan is just one i know of from the back of my head, but there are more of these kind of substances, often with unknown effects. I suppose tryptophan would definately have noticeable effects in combination with rue or caapi.

Could you provide a source which details these "other tryptamine" compounds which are found in psilocybe fungi?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but The only tryptamines known to be found in psilocybe fungi are:

·4-phosphorloxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine
·4-hydroxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine
·4-phosphorloxy-N-methyl-tryptamine
·4-hydroxy-N-methyl-tryptamine
*N,N,N-trimethyl-4-phosphoryloxytryptamine; Aeruginascin (only found in Pholiotina cyanopus* and Inocybe aeruginascens)
*dimethyltryptamine (as intermediate in biosynthesis)
*N-methyl-tryptamine (as intermediate in biosynthesis)
*tryptamine (as intermediate in biosynthesis)
*5-hydroxy-tryptamine (serotonin) (generally present in Panaeolus or Copelandia species)

Tryptophan can be found in psilocybe fungi, but it's not a product of the fungi, it's derived from the environment, and tryptophan is not a tryptamine, it's an amino acid.

Strangely enough, phenethylamine is said to be found in certain species of psilocybe fungi, and is said to alter the effects produced by the N-alkylated tryptamines present:

---

*

-eg

Don't you think that tryptophan and the tryptamines you mentioned could interact with a large dose of harmala's? Well, DMT does so anyway, as we all know. But i mean, the others you mentioned. I don't know if serotonin would pass the blood-brain barrier, but it sure could have some noticeable physical effects when enough MAOI's are taken, definately affecting the experience.

Interesting. Could you expound on this, please?



Am I wrong in believing that this could be a biased comparison, then? Perhaps the detected differences were due to the timing and the fact that you consumed (I assume) DMT Delete repeated word the mushrooms as well as vine, whereas the rue and mushrooms hadn't the spice to alter the dream....