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Quote: No one can say where or how shamanism first appeared. It seems to spring naturally from the earth and stones beneath us, the rivers and seas that surround us, the air that we breathe. It seems to dawn with the first stirrings of human awareness that we are not alone, that there is a spiritual dimension to all life, and those who recognize this are called to act as an intermediaries between the world of humans and spirits. Every culture, from every part of the globe has shamanism in its past, and it seems despite the culture from which this shamanism was generated, and despite the point in history from which it exists in, the concepts and principles are unchanged, a ancient Celtic shaman could interact with a modern Amazonian shaman, and the concepts and principles of their practise would be very similar, and easily understood by each party. Shamanism transcends cultures and times, and because every culture has had shamanism in its past, shamanism incorporates aspects from every culture and time. In modern times there have been many "shamans" who will advertise themselves as such, often seeking capitol gains in exchange for their "services", I feel that the majority of these people are exploiting the tradition in order to generate money for themselves, however, Mathews makes an interesting point below: Quote:
One of the reasons this ancient skill is still practised is because it is effective. Just as people may not return to a doctor who brings them no relief, so, too, they will not continue to seek help from ineffective shamans. The healing that may come though this route is real. It touches not just the body but also the soul, where causes of illness often hide. By harmonizing the causes of illness and disquiet, and restoring soul and spirit to its rightful state, shamans restore balance.
-shamanism bible ; Mathews
Which basically states that the charlatans and frauds will eventually be rooted out by their ineffective practice Quote:
Because it is not a religion as such, but rather a spiritual practice, shamanism cuts across all faiths and creeds, reaching the bedrock of ancestral memory. As a primal belief system that precedes religion, it has its own universal symbolism and cosmology, inhabited by beings, gods and spiritual allies that show manifestly similar characteristics though they appear in localized forms depending on their place of origin. -shamanism bible;Mathews
Quote:The shaman is part of the age-old tradition of the Perennial Philosophy – the mystical teaching of unity of all things and all being. In the realm of magic everything is interrelated; nothing exists in isolation.… This level of consciousness, like a gigantic telephone exchange, affords access to all other realms of awareness. All mystical paths are agreed that such a way of experiencing requires a suspension of normal awareness and of rational thought by means of special techniques of mind training.
DREAM TIME AND INNER SPACE, HOLGER KALWEIT, 1984 Below, shamanic initiation is outlined, I feel this crucial aspect into entering shamanic practice is vastly overlooked in the west. (This connection between entheogens and after-death consciousness has also driven me deeply into texts such as the "Tibetan book of the dead", Tibetan Buddhism, and eastern spirituality in general are huge influences in my practice, the bardo thodol and the Bhagavad Gita are key texts in my practice, and deeply relate to my Entheogenic spirituality, even though culturally the two are unrelated. ) Quote:
INITIATION
Shamanic abilities are generally brought on by a personal crisis, such as illness or sudden shock. Where this is not naturally forthcoming, initiations designed to produce the effects of such a state are used to bring about re-birth as a shaman. The shaman sees through everything, dies and is reborn, suffers the pangs of the world, and sees into its darkest corners. The near-death of initiation is common to shamans the world over and a metaphor for their experiences. Afterwards, they are never the same; everything has changed for them. They have known total knowledge and, to a degree according to their skills and strengths, have permanent access to it from that moment on.
( -shamanism bible )
Ecstasy is the bliss of experiencing everyday life and the otherworlds as one reality. Mircea Eliade, the greatest contemporary writer on the subject, defines this further:
In the sphere of shamanism in the strict sense, the mystical experience is expressed in a … trance…. The shaman is pre-eminently an ecstatic. Now on the plane of primitive religions ecstasy signifies the soul’s flight to heaven, or its wanderings about the earth, or, finally, its descent to the subterranean world.
-SHAMANISM: ARCHAIC TECHNIQUES OF ECSTASY, MIRCEA ELIADE, 1964
-shamanism bible ; Mathews
Below was my shamanic initiation, however this was not an intentional event, I was not looking for spiritual awakening, enlightenment, to be reborn, I was not looking for any answers, I was simply curious, but ended up being transformed permanently. I had shamanic tendencies and experience with entheogens prior to this, however this was the true turning point, a true transformation, and an event that has left me forever changed, it ranks with my birth and my eventual death in terms of significance: Quote:*note: the dose range in this report is highly inflated, there is no reason to ever dose this high*
the first time I used N,N-dimethyltryptamine I smoked 200mgs of translucent yellow crystals on top of a small amount of high-grade cannabis, I consumed it in a single inhalation. I held the hit in less than 5 seconds when the rush began, "I don't believe it!" I kept repeating in my head, "this is impossible".... my surroundings began to quiver and slither apart, faster than anything I had ever seen everything began moving away from everything else in a mash of brilliant color geometric form, and speed, before fully shattering the "reality" in my visual and mental field, it came on like a freight train, I remember thinking "oh fuck! Get this stuff out of me!" And frantically trying to exhale. It was pure terror, I thought "now you have done it! You killed yourself!" After brief mourning at the life I had just departed from I began to pay attention to the present, I remember feeling like I was at the bottom of a foggy mountain with dirt roads, the clouds felt like a domed ceiling, everything was wet, misty, cloudy and rainy, I was overcome with an intense feeling of panic and deja-vu, I felt like a lost child, everything I knew about who I was or my life or earth seemed like a distant dream, like I dissolved out of existence, I interpreted this as dying, I knew that I was dead, and I was emotionally overwhelmed while confronting the event of my death, just like sand slipping through finger cracks I tried to hold onto this all as my entire identity as a human was dissolved, I remembered my name, the earth, my family, who I was, being a human, and life, but like grabbing at smoke, it was futile, all of this slipped away and nearly faded entirely out of my memory, impossible to cling to all this, I had to let it go...I kept thinking "what the fuck was life?" ...I could not tell if I was breathing or not, I would take air in, but couldn't feel it, I began taking in panicked deep breaths, thinking that none of the oxygen was entering my system, then noticed a pain in my chest, a giant mantis like being had its claws in my chest! It proceeded to tear open my chest and stomach removing all my organs and insides, I was about to go into shock when I saw a bright green light flash over my shoulder, it nearly hit me, it then became a beautiful fractal-geometric object, morphing and color changing, at times it was metallic at other times it was a beautiful jewel, and all the while to look into it was to view endless geometric fractal patterns, moving, morphing, and changing color. The mantis then put this object in my torn up body, he began to make billions of these objects, each one unique and radiating beautiful colored light, and the mantoid filled my body with them, billions of them, becoming small as atoms to construct the new insides of my mangled corpse, then I was sealed up and propelled into an orange light where I was resurrected, my conscious-being (soul) was becoming reunited with the physical world ...then I felt as if I was being pushed head first through a thick gelatinous membrane, violent gesticulations of the membrane surrounding me were forcing me through this thing...I was being born...slowly I began to recognize my surroundings, my face still covered in tears, I looked up and saw the branches of a tree in the yard all slither in sinister fashion in from all directions to take place and solidify as the tree in the distance, the world began to slither back into place, most things moved in an elegant liquid serpentine slithering motion, or like the dancing movements of a flame, as the world constructed itself back into the familiar, so did my conscious state and memory, I was still disoriented, and fairly traumatized, I thought I had been gone for millennia, "how long was I gone I asked?"...."about 20 minutes" was the answer ....those who were there said in reality I curled up into a ball and began to cry for 20 minutes, I was wondering why my face was wet, because it felt like I had actually just been through being born, I was still covered in tears...any way the immense deep spiritual and psychological implications of this experience left me for ever transformed, reborn as a new person entirely, it was the single most meaningful thing that has ever happened to me, and changed me in many significant ways, all for the better.
-eg Below are some quick excerpts outlining shamanism, which is actually very difficult to define, as this practice spans through nearly every culture since the dawn of human existance, shamanism means many things to many people, though I feel the core of shamanism transcends these mild "barriers". Quote:
WHAT IS SHAMANISM?
Definitions of shamanism vary from culture to culture and from tradition to tradition, but most agree on common principles such as soul flight (the journey out of the body into different states of being) and the ability to heal sickness in collaboration with spiritual allies. Anthropology terms shamanism ‘animistic’ – that is, founded on the belief that all things have spirit – but practical shamanism is much more: it is a servant of all spiritual traditions, able to draw upon the deep primordial life of the universe, preceding all of our received religions as wisdom inherited by all. It is a transcendent system that puts the practitioner in touch with every level of creation, both inside and outside what is generally accepted as reality. Above all, it is supremely practical and requires a pragmatic, down-to-earth respect for truth, nature and knowledge – the three candles that no darkness can extinguish.
WHO IS THE SHAMAN?
The shaman has many roles, but not every individual possesses a full range of shamanic skills and individual shamans often specialize in various aspects of spiritual work. The shaman can be a spirit doctor, healer, diviner, seer, prophet, negotiator, ancestral intermediary and ritualist, among other roles. Shamanism itself is the practice of bringing healing, wholeness and harmony to body, mind and soul. Where ancestral laws or environmental boundaries have been violated, the shaman will seek to re-harmonize the relations between people and land, or with tribal ancestors. Where an individual falls into soul sickness, the shaman will journey to that person’s spiritual guardians and allies, who can take away illness and restore wholeness. When sickness comes to domestic beasts, the shaman may commune with the spirits to find healing and renewal.
Shamanism bible ; Mathews
Quote:Shamans continually travel between the otherworld of dream and vision and the everyday world of waking consciousness. These two worlds are seen as comprising a single reality. This unified vision of one world with two dimensions stands in stark contrast to the increasingly prevalent view that the everyday world and the life we live is the only reality. Shamans keep open the ways between the worlds in order to maintain this unified vision, because it is the bedrock of all healing and connection with the infinite. No one and nothing is left out of this unity. -shamanism bible ; Mathews http://browser.ebs.io/9780600627883/OEBPS/004.htmlThis link briefly gives a very incomplete glimpse into shamanism across the globe, and while most associate the term with Amazonian or native American spirituality, shamanism itself is global, even when comparing Entheogenic shamanism to non-Entheogenic shamanism the core is identical, its the techniques such differ. -eg
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 990 Joined: 13-Nov-2014 Last visit: 05-Dec-2020
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After your rebirth, do you find yourself drawn to any particular area of practice? Inconsistency is in my nature. The simple PHYLLODE tekI'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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Koornut wrote:After your rebirth, do you find yourself drawn to any particular area of practice? No, simply the practice itself, this was very recent, only 4 years ago, I'm still growing into my spirituality and my spiritual practice, I'm still leaning and evolving in these areas every day. ...they say people who are struck by lightening make good shamans... Quote:Terence McKenna — 'The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself My transformation relates in this sense, my sickness, my madness, my delusions, all whisked away with that initial dose of DMT...This also means you don't need to be initiated by ceremony or institution, it doesn't even have to happen intentionally, you may get struck by lightening and live, you may face terrible illness and recover, or you may out of pure curiosity smoke a large dose of DMT. I'll refer back to this excerpt: Quote:Shamanic abilities are generally brought on by a personal crisis, such as illness or sudden shock. Where this is not naturally forthcoming, initiations designed to produce the effects of such a state are used to bring about re-birth as a shaman. The shaman sees through everything, dies and is reborn, suffers the pangs of the world, and sees into its darkest corners. The near-death of initiation is common to shamans the world over and a metaphor for their experiences. Afterwards, they are never the same; everything has changed for them. They have known total knowledge and, to a degree according to their skills and strengths, have permanent access to it from that moment on.
( -shamanism bible ) ...it's simply been building my practice since. Shamanic techniques, experiencing spirituality first hand, are clearly the most pure techniques in the spiritual world, Tibetan Buddhism and (global) shamanism are my biggest influences now, though I study all spirituality searching for valuable wisdom, I love eastern philosophy and spirituality, but have found some rare gems in western faiths as well... I have all of history, all of the globe, all culture, past and present at my fingertips, through the modern world and the internet, this is an alchemical dream, and I intend to take full advantage. I'm getting off topic though. -eg
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Quote:shamans are are simply curious people. Intellectuals of a certain type. -terence mckenna I've had shamanic tendencies before I was ever aware of shamanism, I had mystical experiences as a child and by coincidence in my social standing* and lifestyle I also fit very well the descriptions of the traditional shaman, which may partially explain my high affinity for the tradition. Quote:Part of the thing I found with hanging with shamans in various places and times is that once you get past the language barrier, what shamans are are simply curious people. Intellectuals of a certain type. In Australian aboriginal slang, a shaman is called a “clever fellow”. If someone says “I’m a clever fellow”, they mean, you know, I’m a shaman. Well, that’s all it is – it’s somebody who pays attention to how things actually work, and sort of transcends the culture by that means. It’s a weird paradox. It’s that the shamans, who are the keepers of the cultural values, are also necessarily the keepers of the secrets of the theatrics of the cultural values, and so they live their lives in the light of the knowledge that it all rests on showbiz. You know, everybody else is a true believer, but these are the image-makers, the people who actually pull the strings and control the evolution of the mythologies. And in a way, it’s a situation of alienation. And it is alienating... Quote:Even in traditional societies, the shaman is central to the social functioning, and the health, and so forth – but is never allowed to be physically central. There is a leader, a head man or something; the shaman lives off at the edge of the village, sometimes off in the woods; he is approached with fear and trembling; he is loathed and respected, and feared and loved, because it is understood that he represents a dimension that nevertheless must be tolerated, because it is the channel through which knowledge, and healing, and higher values, come. -terence mckenna By pure coincidence I had already been playing this role, peripheral to culture but key to it, you maintain balance and provide influence while remaining separated... Quote:the shaman is socially marginal, politically marginal, lives at the edge of the village, and so forth and so on, and is feared by the people, because dealings with the shaman are always dealings about life and death. But then the shaman comes forward in this critical role, as go-between, as mediator, between the cultural mind and the real world, which is this potent set of forces and planetary cycles and meteorological events and diseases and, you know, fate; and the shaman mediates. In many languages, the word for shaman means “go-between”. So the cost of this, or the price of this, for the shaman himself, or herself, is a kind of alienation from the cultural values, and a kind of understanding that it’s a game that’s kept in play. -terence mckenna -eg
Quote:
“Admit it. You aren’t like them. You’re not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes. But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider, watching the “normal people” as they go about their automatic existences. For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”. Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others -Tim Leary
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That's interesting EG. I can see this consumes a lot of your thoughts. I'm not sure how I would process the responsibility of first "hearing the call" and then "picking up the phone" with the same conviction as you. It appears to me at first glance that folk who aren't grandfathered into this way of living have a tendency to cut a path that is unlike any other path. Thats why I'm curios about your methods, because I imagine they vary greatly from anything else I've read or heard about. Inconsistency is in my nature. The simple PHYLLODE tekI'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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Koornut wrote:That's interesting EG. I can see this consumes a lot of your thoughts.
I'm not sure how I would process the responsibility of first "hearing the call" and then "picking up the phone" with the same conviction as you.
It appears to me at first glance that folk who aren't grandfathered into this way of living have a tendency to cut a path that is unlike any other path. Thats why I'm curios about your methods, because I imagine they vary greatly from anything else I've read or heard about. Hmmm... Not really, most my time is consumed with academic study and social obligations, but you have to personally wonder, what is the nature of consciousness? Then if by some means you have come to realize that the physical body and the conscious-being are actually two separate entities, then what are the implications of this realization? Where would this lead you? Tibetan Buddhism, shamanism, and other traditions focused on exploration of consciousness have been huge influences for me, but I've never abandoned my skepticism, my questioning and scientific nature, or my rationality in thought. I enjoy how mckenna articulates these feelings, as he has a much more refined and eloquent style of speech and writing: Quote:"My method, my style, has always been to be open-minded, to be critical, to be rational, but to seek the weird. And to seek it seriously. Now, if you seek the weird without a critical intelligence, it will find you faster than you can lock your apartment behind you! The number of squirrelly ideas on the market these days is truly alarming. I coined a phrase (I hope), "the balkanization of epistemology". This is what we're dealing with now. You understand what I mean? It means people can't tell shit from Shinola, but they wanna talk about it, a lot! This is a place where you have to bring to bear what are called razors, logical razors. One is: hypotheses should not be multiplied without necessity. Another is: equations should not be multiplied without necessity. Razors always seek what is called the principle of parsimony. In other words, keep it simple, stupid. The simplest explanation is always to be preferred first."
- Terence McKenna So a healthy skepticism and an intact and well functioning "bull-shit detector" are key, it's always been stressed that you must have your wits about oneself before entering these areas or the results could be disastrous. -eg
I'll leave with some related quotes from mckenna: Quote:My favorite story in the gospels, and this shows you how ... I am, my favorite story in the gospels, is the story of the apostel Thomas. Because you will recall that after the crucifixion - this is a good place to end, this is an alchemical story - after the crucifixion Christ appeared to the apostels in the upper room in Jerusalem, 40 days after, and Thomas was not there. I don't know where he was, somewhere, they sent him out for sandwiches or something. Anyway he came back, and they said "the master was with us" and he said "come oooon you guys," he said, "you been smoking too much red lab we brought in 3 weeks ago," and they said "no no the master was with us," and he said, "unless I put my hand into the wound, I will not believe it."
So then time passed, and then Christ came again to the apostels, and Thomas was among them on this second get go, and Christ walked in and kicked off his overshoes and looked around the room, and he said "Thomas, come forward, put your hand into the wound," which he did, which he did. Now, people have different interpretations of this story, my interpretation of it ... is that alone among all human beings, in all of human history, only one person was ever so priviliged as to be allowed to touch the resurrected body, it was Thomas the Doubter, who was allowed to touch the resurrection body because he didn't believe, and so if you want to touch the resurrection body, be very careful with where you commit your belief, keep your eyes open, stay smart, take it easy...
-terence mckenna Quote:So extreme experience is the necessary key...This is true in all forms of endeavour. If you want to understand the atom...you have to smash it. Sitting around looking at it, it will never yield its secrets. You have to smash that sucker to bits and then collect the pieces
and then examine exactly how it all came apart in the same way and without you know going to far afield for the pun we must smash ordinary consciousness get smashed and then look at the pieces flying in all directions and say gee I didn't know minds could do that. -terence mckenna
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I began doing research on shamanic initiation, mostly as a result of this quote (below) having so many similarities to my first DMT event: Quote:Shamanic abilities are generally brought on by a personal crisis, such as illness or sudden shock. Where this is not naturally forthcoming, initiations designed to produce the effects of such a state are used to bring about re-birth as a shaman. The shaman sees through everything, dies and is reborn, suffers the pangs of the world, and sees into its darkest corners. The near-death of initiation is common to shamans the world over and a metaphor for their experiences. Afterwards, they are never the same; everything has changed for them. They have known total knowledge and, to a degree according to their skills and strengths, have permanent access to it from that moment on.
( -shamanism bible ) ...then this morning, I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the information on the screen that was being presented to me, it was almost a shock to hear my exact DMT event being described back to me in the terms of "shamanic initiation" Ok, first I'll post my report (again, sorry): Quote:*note: the dose range in this report is highly inflated, there is no reason to ever dose this high*
the first time I used N,N-dimethyltryptamine I smoked 200mgs of translucent yellow crystals on top of a small amount of high-grade cannabis, I consumed it in a single inhalation. I held the hit in less than 5 seconds when the rush began, "I don't believe it!" I kept repeating in my head, "this is impossible".... my surroundings began to quiver and slither apart, faster than anything I had ever seen everything began moving away from everything else in a mash of brilliant color geometric form, and speed, before fully shattering the "reality" in my visual and mental field, it came on like a freight train, I remember thinking "oh fuck! Get this stuff out of me!" And frantically trying to exhale. It was pure terror, I thought "now you have done it! You killed yourself!" After brief mourning at the life I had just departed from I began to pay attention to the present, I remember feeling like I was at the bottom of a foggy mountain with dirt roads, the clouds felt like a domed ceiling, everything was wet, misty, cloudy and rainy, I was overcome with an intense feeling of panic and deja-vu, I felt like a lost child, everything I knew about who I was or my life or earth seemed like a distant dream, like I dissolved out of existence, I interpreted this as dying, I knew that I was dead, and I was emotionally overwhelmed while confronting the event of my death, just like sand slipping through finger cracks I tried to hold onto this all as my entire identity as a human was dissolved, I remembered my name, the earth, my family, who I was, being a human, and life, but like grabbing at smoke, it was futile, all of this slipped away and nearly faded entirely out of my memory, impossible to cling to all this, I had to let it go...I kept thinking "what the fuck was life?" ...I could not tell if I was breathing or not, I would take air in, but couldn't feel it, I began taking in panicked deep breaths, thinking that none of the oxygen was entering my system, then noticed a pain in my chest, a giant mantis like being had its claws in my chest! It proceeded to tear open my chest and stomach removing all my organs and insides, I was about to go into shock when I saw a bright green light flash over my shoulder, it nearly hit me, it then became a beautiful fractal-geometric object, morphing and color changing, at times it was metallic at other times it was a beautiful jewel, and all the while to look into it was to view endless geometric fractal patterns, moving, morphing, and changing color. The mantis then put this object in my torn up body, he began to make billions of these objects, each one unique and radiating beautiful colored light, and the mantoid filled my body with them, billions of them, becoming small as atoms to construct the new insides of my mangled corpse, then I was sealed up and propelled into an orange light where I was resurrected, my conscious-being (soul) was becoming reunited with the physical world ...then I felt as if I was being pushed head first through a thick gelatinous membrane, violent gesticulations of the membrane surrounding me were forcing me through this thing...I was being born...slowly I began to recognize my surroundings, my face still covered in tears, I looked up and saw the branches of a tree in the yard all slither in sinister fashion in from all directions to take place and solidify as the tree in the distance, the world began to slither back into place, most things moved in an elegant liquid serpentine slithering motion, or like the dancing movements of a flame, as the world constructed itself back into the familiar, so did my conscious state and memory, I was still disoriented, and fairly traumatized, I thought I had been gone for millennia, "how long was I gone I asked?"...."about 20 minutes" was the answer ....those who were there said in reality I curled up into a ball and began to cry for 20 minutes, I was wondering why my face was wet, because it felt like I had actually just been through being born, I was still covered in tears...any way the immense deep spiritual and psychological implications of this experience left me for ever transformed, reborn as a new person entirely, it was the single most meaningful thing that has ever happened to me, and changed me in many significant ways, all for the better.
-eg Now I'll post further research, most of which I just found this morning, and most of which I'm somewhat in shock over, I have never heard another explain events which matched my personal.experience so well... Quote:*in reference to Siberian shamanic initiation* Often these initiations by either another shaman or the spirits involved a traumatic visionary death and rebirth experience. Sometimes this included a journey to the underworld, meetings with deities and the would-be shaman’s body being dismembered and then put together again.http://www.newdawnmagazi...ts-of-siberian-shamanism Quote:The actual initiation can be equally excruciating. Most initiations in most cultures involve a symbolic death and rebirth: the candidate 'dies' to his old identity and is reborn to a new one. Shamanic initiates often experience this resurrection in gruesome ways. When the rai (spirits) make a shaman in western australia, they take him to their home.
'There they cut him up and hang up his insides...his body is dead, but his soul remains there, and on the order of the rai to look steadily at the part hanging up, he recognizes [his organs]. His body is put over a hot earth-oven, with magic cooking stones in it, and covered with paper-bark. The perspiration streams down. The rai replace his insides and close up the flesh. He is told that he can henceforth travel in the air like a bird or under the ground like a goanna...
....
Stories of disembowelment, dismemberment, and reassembly ( usually with magic stones or crystals inserted into the shamans frame) are best understood in this light.
-Hidden Wisdom: A Guide to the Western Inner Traditions
By Richard Smoley, Jay Kinney; page 161
Quote:The initiation is understood as a process of death and rebirth: “first, torture at the hands of demons or spirits, who play the role of masters of initiation; second, ritual death, experienced by the patient as a descent to hill or an ascent to heaven; third, resurrection to a new mode of being – the mode of ‘consecrated man,’ that is, a man who can personally communicate with gods, demons and spirits. For initiatory death is always followed by a resurrection; that is, in terms of psychopathological experience, the crisis is resolved and the sickness cured. The shaman’s integration of a new personality is in large part dependent on his being cured
-Written by Mircea Eliade, the entry for Shamanism in vol. 19 of Man, Myth and Magic Quote:In Shamanic cultures, the shaman plays a priest like role; however, there is an essential difference between the two, as Joseph Campbell describes: The priest is the socially initiated, ceremonially inducted member of a recognized religious organization, where he holds a certain rank and functions as the tenant of an office that was held by others before him, while the shaman is one who, as a consequence of a personal psychological crisis, has gained a certain power of his own. A shaman may be initiated via a serious illness, by being struck by lightning, or by a near-death experience (e.g. the shaman Black Elk), and there usually is a set of cultural imagery expected to be experienced during shamanic initiation regardless of method. According to Mircea Eliade, such imagery often includes being transported to the spirit world and interacting with beings inhabiting it, meeting a spiritual guide, being devoured by some being and emerging transformed, and/or being "dismantled" and "reassembled" again, often with implanted amulets such as magical crystals. The imagery of initiation generally speaks of transformation and granting powers, and often entails themes of death and rebirth. http://www.crystalinks.com/shamanism.html So, after reading my experience report, and the information regarding shamanic initiation, is it really so crazy for me to actually believe that this is what happened to me? -eg
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I think it is certifiably crazy EG  That shouldn't take away from your experiences though I hope you know that. My inquiry is curiosity, I'm not attempting a debunk. Have you found others who have had similar intensity in their breakthroughs? I remember a while back you were advocating the 200mg megadose for one and all, my guess is that has changed slightly. Inconsistency is in my nature. The simple PHYLLODE tekI'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
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Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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Koornut wrote:I think it is certifiably crazy EG That shouldn't take away from your experiences though I hope you know that. My inquiry is curiosity, I'm not attempting a debunk. Have you found others who have had similar intensity in their breakthroughs? I remember a while back you were advocating the 200mg megadose for one and all, my guess is that has changed slightly. (I read similar experiences every week in the "first steps in hyperspace" section of this site, what happened to me is not the exception, it's the norm) Debunk away if you want. I encourage scrutiny and detailed examination in every situation. (I feel the fact that ethnobotanists such as Mircea Eliade were interviewing practicing shamans, from various cultures and countries, and that these shamans were reporting experiences which were near identical to my own, means these experiences are ingrained in the entheogens themselves, the modern practice of taking psychedelics, even for recreation, is shamanism, whether all these first world suburban consumers ever realize it is irrelavant, and it does get through, most people will tell you how a deep psychedelic voyage forever altered their perspectives, there science behind this as well: Quote:these data suggest that regular use of psychedelic drugs could potentially lead to structural changes in brain areas supporting attentional processes, self-referential thought, and internal mentation. These changes could underlie the previously reported personality changes in long-term users and highlight the involvement of the PCC in the effects of psychedelics.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25637267 ...so debunk away, I've tried to do so myself, obviously the hardest individual to convince was myself. however the point is not convincing others to believe my story, the point is to encourage others to explore these spaces for themselves... The dose issue was essentially a misunderstanding, I never advocated for others to take such doses, and I've only taken such a dose a single time in my life... Though I did argue for sufficient dosing, for obvious reasons... Quote:You know, Christ said “the lukewarm I vomit from my mouth;” and, that’s how I feel about people who chip away at psychedelics and take piss-ant amounts, and go to clubs, and go to class, and go to the mall, and, you know, this is not the program, folks. I mean, it’s somebody’s program, but I’m interested in life-changing experiences, and the wonderful thing about psychedelics is that, as drugs, they are the safest drugs known to pharmacology. In other words, uh, you would have to take 300 times the effective dose of psilocybin to place yourself in physical danger! -terence mckenna Though that's neither here nor there, or really even in relation to this thread. What's your experience with shamanism and entheogens? -eg
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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I was really hoping you would elaborate on exactly what you perceived as "crazy" about what I've posted in this thread, or perhaps discuss how Mircea Eliade differed from Richard Evans schultes on their views on shamanism, or perhaps discuss some of other the posted matter.
have you ever taken psychedelics for reasons other than recreation?
...to think that all the consciousness you will ever experience will be limited to a single physical body, in a single place and a single time seems absurd to me, when I speak about "spirituality" I'm referring to non-physical conscious states.
-eg
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 990 Joined: 13-Nov-2014 Last visit: 05-Dec-2020
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We are in agreement of everything you mentioned - particularly the potential universality of modern entheo use and it's relation to the wierdos of the tribe. It's yours - it's mine - it's ours - it's not just for old men charging money for a story, nor for hermits plugged deep into the forests. The fibre optic connection we all have access to, the all spark. It's the one thing that's been suppressed beyond comprehension with modernity, so powerful such that particles escaping its suppression constantly burst forth into reality in the shape of architecture and art and science and math and narrative. We can all access it. Some choose to do so more than others - and the end result always seems to be the some that go deeper, cut wider paths to come back, create maps to show others. But going deep and coming back are strange bedfellows, things get lost in translation. Better make sure your map is a good one before you start showing others. Sorry for the butchered syntax Psychedelics are my surfboard, the waves are my imagination. I have no desire to share my board with anyone, because I don't even know how I'm riding the damn thing or where I'm going. But I'll gladly tell you a tale of the time I met a hyperdragon in his perfectly landscaped and manicured courtyard, or my battles with snow white superspiders with appetites for small dogs. Inconsistency is in my nature. The simple PHYLLODE tekI'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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Koornut wrote:We are in agreement of everything you mentioned - particularly the potential universality of modern entheo use and it's relation to the wierdos of the tribe. It's yours - it's mine - it's ours - it's not just for old men charging money for a story, nor for hermits plugged deep into the forests. The fibre optic connection we all have access to, the all spark. It's the one thing that's been suppressed beyond comprehension with modernity, so powerful such that particles escaping its suppression constantly burst forth into reality in the shape of architecture and art and science and math and narrative. We can all access it. Some choose to do so more than others - and the end result always seems to be the some that go deeper, cut wider paths to come back, create maps to show others. But going deep and coming back are strange bedfellows, things get lost in translation. Better make sure your map is a good one before you start showing others. Sorry for the butchered syntax Psychedelics are my surfboard, the waves are my imagination. I have no desire to share my board with anyone, because I don't even know how I'm riding the damn thing or where I'm going. But I'll gladly tell you a tale of the time I met a hyperdragon in his perfectly landscaped and manicured courtyard, or my battles with snow white superspiders with appetites for small dogs. I don't believe I have ever mentioned giving these entheogens to other people. -eg
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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Quote:So there is a tradition 50,000 years old of shamanism/bohemianism. People who are deputized to be weird and are told, ‘ok you be weird, we’ll give you a hut at the edge of the village – you be weird and if we need you, we’ll call.’ That’s basically the role. ‘No, don’t bother, we’ll call you.’ The political position of shamans is fascinating in these societies because they share it but they are not of it. They are only asked in when things are really desperate. I think that bohemianism, this orphic tradition I’ve talked about that goes back – way, way back - is the continuation of that. So we here represent to some degree a self selected group of these Orphic eccentrics who carry this charge of otherness. In many languages the word shaman means go-between. The shaman moves between levels, and the mythologies differ but either into a spirit world, or an ancestor world, or an animal world – but a go-between. -terence McKenna Quote:
Even in traditional societies, the shaman is central to the social functioning, and the health, and so forth – but is never allowed to be physically central. There is a leader, a head man or something; the shaman lives off at the edge of the village, sometimes off in the woods; he is approached with fear and trembling; he is loathed and respected, and feared and loved, because it is understood that he represents a dimension that nevertheless must be tolerated, because it is the channel through which knowledge, and healing, and higher values, come. -terence mckenna
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the shaman is socially marginal, politically marginal, lives at the edge of the village, and so forth and so on, and is feared by the people, because dealings with the shaman are always dealings about life and death. But then the shaman comes forward in this critical role, as go-between, as mediator, between the cultural mind and the real world, which is this potent set of forces and planetary cycles and meteorological events and diseases and, you know, fate; and the shaman mediates. In many languages, the word for shaman means “go-between”. So the cost of this, or the price of this, for the shaman himself, or herself, is a kind of alienation from the cultural values, and a kind of understanding that it’s a game that’s kept in play. -terence mckenna Quote:Part of the thing I found with hanging with shamans in various places and times is that once you get past the language barrier, what shamans are are simply curious people. Intellectuals of a certain type. In Australian aboriginal slang, a shaman is called a “clever fellow”. If someone says “I’m a clever fellow”, they mean, you know, I’m a shaman. Well, that’s all it is – it’s somebody who pays attention to how things actually work, and sort of transcends the culture by that means. It’s a weird paradox. It’s that the shamans, who are the keepers of the cultural values, are also necessarily the keepers of the secrets of the theatrics of the cultural values, and so they live their lives in the light of the knowledge that it all rests on showbiz. You know, everybody else is a true believer, but these are the image-makers, the people who actually pull the strings and control the evolution of the mythologies. And in a way, it’s a situation of alienation. -terence McKenna -eg
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 517 Joined: 04-Apr-2015 Last visit: 23-Jan-2022 Location: USA
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Grandiloquence patiently endured, I suspect most extant entheogenists are familiar with the definition/concept of, "shamanism". "Neo-shamanism", now that brings the baggage.
Once a certain degree of facility with psychedelics is developed, those presently practicing entheogen catalyzed spiritual growth, more likely need/desire a "huckleberry" versus a "shaman".
Peace
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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I am not sure you have made a proper perception of this thread or my views regarding shamanism, perhaps your notions of shamanism have been clouded by modern misperceptions, generally fueled by the herds of charlatans and new age con-men seeking to exploit the shamanic image and pieces of shamanic practice, while discounting the core principles that define the practice itself. Shamanism is in the history of all peoples, from all places and all cultures, from Europe, irelamd and the United kingdom, to Russia, Asia, Africa, south America, north America, Australia, and so on...when you look to any cultures archaic past you find shamanic practice. I think one engages in shamanic practice every time they ingest an entheogen, whether they realize it or not. In shamanism, it is the entheogens who are the teachers, and who are to be revered as the wise guides and disseminaters of gnosis, and any actual shaman will have no delusions about this. I have a high affinity towards shamanic spirituality as it is analogous to my own spiritual practice, I use entheogens to derive first hand experiences of non-physical conscious states. Which is all shamanism is at its core... Quote:I have been a slender sword
A drop in the air
A shining bright star
A letter amoung words
-6th century bard taliesin shamanic writing
such statements were for a long time seen as poetic bombast, But in more recent times they have been accepted as accounts of actual experiences, when a taliesin speaks of having "been" a sword, or a drop of rain or a star, he means that he has literally experienced what it means to be so completely at one with the things he sees and hears in such a way, that he feels as if he were indeed one of them.
-Mathews;shamanism bible It all comes down to first hand experience, being able to observe and interpret and learn through first hand experience. This (shamanism) is my means of practicing spirituality, first hand experience of the divine, of the other, of the non-physical, of the after-death, of the "spiritual", all facilitated through entheogens ( which are the vehicles, the teachers, and the guides) At no point do I ever claim to give entheogens to others, or to heal others, or to charge others money for ceremony, or any of these other nonsense misperceptions that people hold when they hear the word "shaman", and by saying I am a shaman does not mean I engage in these activities or hold certain views towards non-shamanic entheogen consumption (if such a thing exists)
All you that faine philosophers would be, And night and day in Geber's kitchen broyle, Wasting the chips of ancient Hermes' Tree, Weening to turn them to a precious oyle, The more you work the more you lose and spoil, To you I say, how learned soe'er you be, Go and burn your books and come learn of me... -Edward Kelley The above quote always reminded me of shamanism, and in this unique shamanic view it could be interpreted as saying "you're bright, but you are wasting your time searching for gnosis and spirituality in texts, or churches, or dogma, and that you should go and burn your books and dogma and come learn through first hand experience", and while this may not have anything to do with Sir Edward Kelley's (or Kelly's or Edward Talbot' s ) intended meaning behind the quote, as he could not have been aware of shamanism, it fits quite nicely, and actually embodies much of the same sentiment as the alternative meaning for which I put to the phrase...
Misc. Information Traditionally, when you would go see a shaman, it would be the shaman consuming the entheogen, not the patient, and because the shaman has learned how to use the entheogen for various practical means which apply to the real world, the shaman would be using the entheogen as his tool to diagnose and treat disease and ailments, both physical and psychological. In this case the entheogens can be seen as medical equipment. At 46 minutes into this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oIAq8FhU78 , we see that a shaman ingested ayahuasca, he then waved his rattle, blew some smoke on the patient, then and he then actually saw into his patient, visually confirming stomach parasites, in this case the entheogen is like an x-Ray machine, or like a diagnostic blood test, it's an actual medical tool.
People will always say "not all shamanism uses entheogens" Mircea Eliade argued that Entheogenic shamanism was in a state of decay, however, many would disagree, R. E. Schultes and terence McKenna, as well as myself, to name a few. In non-Entheogenic shamanism they must resort to ordeal or poisons, because the entheogens were vastly not available, meaning non-Entheogenic shamanism is a resort, and is in a state of decay. Non-entheogenic shamanism must resort to fasting, sleep deprivation, stranding oneself in nature, undergoing painful events such as wearing gloves of stinging ants or ingesting poisons, sweat lodges, and so on to induce something that may or may not be effective, keep in mind all these methods are quite dangerous. While with entheogens the experience is produced reliably, and effectively and it's produced in a manner which is safe, specially compared to the practices of non-Entheogenic shamanism. (Though I can see value in these non-Entheogenic shamanic practices, say you live in the rain-Forrest and you slip.and fall into.a pile of stinging ants, since you went through a ceremony where you had to endure wearing gloves made of these ants, you are now prepared to endure the pain and make it back to the village. (They are also finding medical benefits to shamanic plants and poisons, Entheogenic or otherwise. In these cultures the shaman is like a strange mix of a doctor, a sorcerer, a keeper of plant knowledge, a generator of culture, a spiritual "go between" and a facilitator of ceremony. Though it all comes down to This individuals first hand experience and to his plant teachers and guides.) I think in the thread above I have made a great case for my affinity towards shamanic practice, and have provided ample information defining and describing shamanic practice itself, I think if you re-read this thread you may see that there may have been some misperceptions or misunderstandings, at least that is how it appeared from your last response, as the response did not seem to correlate in Amy way with the content of the thread thus far. -eg
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DMT-Nexus member
 
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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Can I ask what is your age and how recent is all of this in your life? I ask out of curiosity because when I discovered all these psychedelics, Mckenna, ideas of some kind of global wide thing called "shamanism" I got really into it and came to many of the same conclusions and held similar beliefs. I went to school, studied some anthropology and fell into a serious period of ayahuasca drinking that lasted years. Now older coming into my mid 30's, my views have shifted a lot. I don't believe in one primordial "shamanic" religion. I think calling oneself a shaman in the western world is like a pilates instructor saying they are a yogi. I don't think that psychedelics and shamanism belong to each other...any more than yoga and psychedelics belong together, or computer programming and LSD belong together. I feel there is a bit of a sit at home fantasy dungeons and dragons-esque aspect to the new age "shamanic" trend that has arisen around psychedelics and ayahuasca especially..and I feel that it has become part of that trend to later deny any ties to that same new age thread of thought that has seeded itself through every aspect of the counter culture. I would never call the Telestai of the mysteries shaman simply because psychedelics seem to have played a central role. Much use of tryptamines in the amazon seems to be more about warfare, rites of innitiation, recreational partying(men usually) and to be frank, just men grabbing themselves by the balls and being men..and nothing wrong with that. It's typically a men's thing and has little to do with western ideas of spirituality. Most of that is old world mysticism and psychedelic use in the west largely represents that model more effectively. I don't really know anyone who is using tryptamines this way(traditional), nor do I really feel there are any shamans in the west. Just some thoughts I have in retrospect as I look back on my 20's and many of the ideas I held as true for me at the time. Long live the unwoke.
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Dreamoar
Posts: 4711 Joined: 10-Sep-2009 Last visit: 21-Nov-2024 Location: Rocky mountain high
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While I generally disagree with the use of the blanket term "shamanism" for a diversity of unique cultural practices. There is something of sacredness, ritual, and ceremony that is a birthright embedded deeply in our genes, fully transcending culture. I'm just gonna leave this here, as it demonstrates my thinking much better than a wall of text ever could. Fire on the Mountain- A Gathering of Shamans ♥
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 214 Joined: 30-Aug-2014 Last visit: 04-Aug-2024 Location: Midlands UK
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There is a broadly accepted definition of the term "shamanism", and it applies to the practice of a designated individual who travels through the spirit worlds and interacts with spirits (or other shamans) for the purpose of healing the sick, or sick animals, finding lost items, etc.
I wonder why we need this specific meaning to validate our contemporary use of psychedelics, even when we use them for healing, on whatever level? I think we are better off, in general, with fewer beliefs rather than more.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4031 Joined: 28-Jun-2012 Last visit: 05-Mar-2024
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Dreamer042 thanks for that link, saw it twice  It left me with a double feeling: 1 where I feel where/what shamanism can truly contribute, and 1 where I thought shamanism goes overboard with itself. The contributing part IMHO: here I would place shamanism as an instrument that works on the level of state-of-mind and/or state-of-being, this of course works only if it resonates with you. Quite identically to poems, book writers, musicians/singers, architects, movies, sports aficionados, hobbies, ... things that float on a talent to make it catching you and to form highlights of your life, making life worth life. The impact this has on mind/being is enormous. This works completely independent from a true-ish factor. To make it work it only has to be there, to strike chords intensely on the person who favors it. I seriously doubt contingent shamanic wizardry as in hokuspokus, but to those who think that shamanism is only and utterly BS I would like to ask if they can prove that placebo effect doesn't exist. At least this should be granted I think, and not to be under estimated!
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