Could one be considered a DMT shaman? What in your view would make someone a qualify as a DMT shaman if it is at all possible?

I take DMT very seriously and there are some people I will not give it to, but many of the people that I have consider me a shaman of sorts because of the way I take them through it.

I don't pretend that I understand what DMT is, I certainly have a some ideas, but I have smoalked enough that I feel I have a very strong relationship and bond with hyperspace and I'm good at helping people decide if it's something they want to do and walking them though it in a way that they often feel is meaningful.

So that being said, is there such thing as a DMT shaman and what would it really take to be one>

Part of me thinks no and another part yes.

also aliens and stuff...

Many indigenous "shamans" often use it for purposes of healing others and so on, so I'm not sure just giving people dmt and being a good host is the same thing.

But at any rate...who cares?

It's all just made up words anyways

Forget the label. Keep your intentions clean. We learn by sharing so I think even when teaching be a student. True indigenous healers know plants and plant medicines. If I ever sought out a so called Shaman it would be to study the medicinal plants and not just the psychedelic ones. Big pharma is out of control and has a lot of folks by the balls so to speak. The world could use more people who know plant medicines and who can keep sharing the knowledge.

Well...

I have a shamanic practice with the mushrooms, that is, I guide ceremonies for individuals, couples and small groups (10 people is already a bit much for deep work IMHO), by singing traditional amazonian songs and playing instruments (gong, flutes, jew's harps and a few others).

But before starting that practice (and learning from experienced shamans from many different traditions, I didn't improvise myself a guide), I was a psychonaut and introduced many people to DMT and changa.
At the time, all I could do was to provide them with a safe, dark and silent environment, as well as a tried out ROA for DMT (GVG).
Thing is, the (pure) DMT trip is so fast and so alien, that even today with my experience as a guide, all I can do is to provide a nice setting and prepare their mindset. The rest is in the hands of the spirits.

Now with changa, due to the longer trip, which is closer to Ayahuasca (IMHE), I find it possible to guide others with my singing.

I'll share my most significant experience in that regard...

I had a student of mine visiting me at home, who had never experienced a shamanic ceremony, but wasn't ready yet for a complete night (it lasts 4h to 6h with the mushroom), so I proposed a little changa ceremony, which she accepted with joy, as she had had another experience with changa (with me).
While preparing the setting, I heard (in my head) a voice saying : "take a bucket with you."
I answered "nah, I've never had anybody puke with changa before" (I had discovered changa 3 years before that moment and partaken it with at least 20 people.) The voice repeated "TAKE A BUCKET with you", which I didn't want to listen to.

So there we are, in my living room, at night with lights off, but there was a huge window in that room and it was a full moon...
I roll her a changa joint (tobacco+changa, no weed of course), but before giving it to her to smoke, I put 40mg * in my GVG so that I can connect with the elves before she does, and show her how I "do" it ** (that is, lying down with eyes closed and a huge smile on my face.)
I had only put 40mg of changa in the GVG, because I was sure it wasn't enough for me to have a full breakthrough experience so I could still be present for my "patient" afterwards but would still connect with the energy of changa... LOL, sometimes, I'm still so naïve I can only laugh at myself
7 seconds later, the elves showed up, saying "hey look who's there, someone who didn't want to visit us so he could keep control, hihihihihi"
Still, it wasn't very heavy, and a few minutes later I'm back, telling my "patient" everything's perfect, she can light up the joint now...
As soon as she finished the joint and leaves to hyperspace, the spirits talk to me again, saying : "sit straight, center yourself and sing for her"...
So I do and sing a pretty song, which starts like this : "
Hermanito, hermanita, hermanito, hermanita x2

Hermanita, te pedimos mirar tu tristeza,
Hermanita, te pedimos reconocer tu tristeza,
Hermanita, te pedimos dejar tu tristeza,
En el camino a Dios, no puedes llevar, tu tristeza, hermanita,
En el camino a Dios, no puedes llevar, tu tristeza"

And voila, she starts puking on the floor, of course, as I didn't want to get her a bucket
So I finished the song, but had only time to sing her another song/icaros and maybe play her a little flute and she was back to usual consciousness.

My conclusion to that experience, is that healing with changa like a traditional shaman is possible, but very short (10-15 minutes max) and is a bit pointless from a practicioner's perspective compared with ayahuasca or the mushrooms in a ceremony lasting 4 to 6h...

So, to your question, "could one be considered a DMT shaman", my answer would be "not really", but like universecannon said :

Being a good host is the best thing you can do with DMT anyways, the rest is up to the person and the DMT spirits...


IMHO, you cannot be a shaman, you can only be yourself
Now if you'd like to behave like a shaman, then you have to learn from shamans, directly.
Attend as many ceremonies as you can from as many different shamans as you can, observe everything but don't judge, try to understand what they're doing, with your heart (not your mind), and find a maestro who will teach you through experience...
Don't be afraid of a good spiritual spanking from time to time, don't take things personally but most of all : only do it because you love it. <3

Cheers,
Silly(c)One.

--------------------Notes--------------------

* [... now that changa batch was special, I had used my usual ratio (2.5g FB DMT/2.5g caapi leaf/625mg FB harmalas) but added a pinch of mapacho and a pinch of chaliponga in it and I sang shipibo icaros to it for a few hours while the acetone was evaporating, so I had prepared it like I would prepare ayahuasca ...]

** [... Every time I initiate someone to changa/DMT (I don't initiate people with straight DMT anymore, as IMHE changa is softer, slower coming, much longer lasting and allows for a much easier integration of the experience compared to pure DMT, which is also more difficult to administer properly, even with the GVG which needs a little practice - though that may change as I'm experimenting now with e-cigs, but I'm disgressing), the spirits have always told me to go first. ...]

I think a shaman is selected. Shamans often lived on the outskirts or even far outside the villages they would help. Some great shamans would be sought out from far away villages. The honed their art of healing and are selected. They same way you would select a good doctor. As some people fear going to the doctor, people also fear going to the shaman. Healing can be hard. You need someone strong to guide you sometimes. The shaman takes the role and provides this strength and guidance for the purpose of healing.

These shamans would train themselves to access the world of spirits. The would enter trances and find things. They could see into someone's body and see the location of the pain or the foundation of suffering. Starting at the cause. Healing the soul or spirit. These "true" shamans have much to teach all of us. They have unique knowledge.

I had brought up modern shamanism a little while back. There were so many interpretations of shamanism. The subject is not without debate to say the least. Here is a link to that thread. I think you will find it interesting based off of your questioning here.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=70338

My thought on this is that you are the shaman of your group. You were selected. I don't see this modern selection any different from ancient selections for shamans.

I think there are many shamans here on the nexus. We travel through time and space, enter hyperspace and spirit realms, encounter entities and gods. We go there and come back with unique knowledge. We share it in hopes of helping others. There are shamans of many skill levels. If someone is defining you as a shaman then I think that makes you a shaman. I do not think a shaman gives him/herself that title.

We cannot be defined by words. We are not the labels. We are all potential shamans. The same way we are all potential artists or craftsman. We choose a certain skill set. We learn what we choose to learn. We travel into alter states of consciousness we bring back a unique skill set. We traveled a road many never take and come back to tell about the road. It takes time to become a craftsman or good artist. You practice and practice. You learn as much as you can. People may define some of us as a shaman based off of our unique psychedelic craft and art. It is a skill set the same as any other.

On a personal note I have a few friends that jokingly and affectionately call me 'shaman' from time to time. If there was a shaman in my group, I would be it I guess. lol

I used to be in a similar situation a few years back. Most of the people im friends with have considered me this shaman/chemistry buff [when im actually neither and far from it, especially compared to many of the people here]. I can see why my friends would say that though - none of them are as interested with psychedelics or the informations behind them, especially DMT/extraction, so naturally I think to them they see me as something beyond what I actually am lol. Sounds like a similar situation to me Horus. Im sure others here have encountered the same things with friends.

But the whole labeling, like 'DMT shaman' haha, I would skip the labels entirely. As uni said - they're just words.

If it was me, I wouldn't worry about what your friends consider you and just continue being who you are.

Why not just consider oneself a cleva fella.....? You know, some these anthropologists, orientalists and many of these other funnies are leading large portions of the population astray with these rigid classification groupings/namings.....why apply they crappy naming on ones own doings? That sounds misguided....(we think).

Why not do your thing as is: 'unclassified'? Unless one wants to receive gifts and hand out du'a/darshan

With the labeling, I would rather go for a callsign/middle name assigned by your friends, since they usually have a better view on how others see you. Self labeling has a serious tendency to inflation over time.

btw, the callsign my friends gave me is: 'Chemical' Trav


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I don't understand why people here fixate on the word 'shaman' to the extent that they do. Ayahuasqueros don't call themselves shamans, it's a term form Central Asia and has very little to do with psychedelics. I feel like people get hung up on these recycled, new-age icons without much of a sense of what they originally meant.

Why not just call it like it is: guide, facilitator, or something specific to you and your group (like Trav suggested).

Blessings
~ND

There is this thing with psychedelics. A person does them and has themself a wonderful transformative experience. Then they feel everyone should have this too and they are the one to give it to them. It seems kind if self important to me. I mean, I can navigate my psyche, identify the things that ail me and set out to fix this things. But for me to think I could do the same for a friend our stranger seems akin to assuming I could fly a jet because I rode from Florida to Oregon on one once.

I've seen the word used to filtch people out of large sums of money by questionable (to be nice) people who are out to prey upon the vulnerabilities of 'seekers" (see: trinity de guzman and ayahuasca healings, aka the battle I picked).

I get that, I do the same thing (trying to introduce them to people who I think will find them healing/useful/meaningful), what I don't understand is the need to go associating with all kinds of cultures, especially when those cultures actually have very little to do with what you're doing.

We've all seen those guys with dream catchers, who talk about shamans, drink Ayahuasca, and discuss their chakras, even though none of those things have any real historical relationship with eachother. Dream catchers are from Indigenous groups in N. America, Ayahuasca is from the Amazon, shaman is an Ivenki term from central asia, and Chakras are Hindu. Fold in some garbled stuff about quantum mechanics and a set of poi and you've got a Burner.

If you find these experiences spiritually meaningful, that's totally fine, and if you want to create some kind of practice around them, that's also totally fine, I just don't understand why the hodge-podge of poorly understood 'exotic' symbolism comes from.

Blessings
~ND

But Nathaniel, just because something comes from another culture, doesn't mean it can't have value for you. And if someone likes to combine zen wisdom with native pipes and dream catchers and also drinks aya, but feels like they benefit from all theses things then why should they not use them in conjunction with one another.

At the end of the day we all share one culture of being human, and I think that cultural bias and stigma is a step back not forwards. Do not judge lest he be judged.

This is a big part of how culture is even formed in the first place, groups borrow ideas from others who have introduced these ideas to them, and then they twist the ideas to fit their own framework. Despite the many differences in shamanic and spiritual culture there are also a great deal of core similarities. I think it's cause at some point a lot of these ideas had the same origins.

Then again even cultures that lived completely isolated from eachother shared similar practices like the building of pyramids at sacred sites occurs on several continents

If we all stuck to things straight from "our culture" then most of us should not be using mushrooms ayahuasca or cactus. If your logic tword the other beliefs and practices is applied to plant use, that is the result I see...

I think what Nathanial was getting at is not that we should stop valuing and learning from other cultures, but that we might do it in a more thoughtful and considerate way.

If I were interested in Abrahamic religions, for example, I wouldn't go around calling myself a rabbi just because I identify with a few passages from the Torah--especially if my own practice happened to reflect Christianity or some other tradition distinct from Judaism. This might seem obvious to most of us because we collectively recognize that becoming a Rabbi entails an intensive process of study and dedication, as laid out by Judaic custom and culture.

Yet for some reason it's much less obvious to us when we take on cultural roles that we perceive as exotic or indigenous. "Shaman" is not a made up word that we can use however we want. It's not a costume we can just try on for kicks. Like a rabbi, a shaman plays a very specific role in the communities of a specific culture--and frankly psychedelics have very little to do with that.

A lot of ideas that we have in the psychedelic scene about what a "shaman" is supposed to be are a result of the exportation of diverse cultural practices that have been homogenized and rebranded for Western consumption. Indigenous people around the world still struggle to maintain their autonomy in the face of violent repression and assimilation, so it's a big deal when living, breathing traditions are treated as exotic artifacts and eventually phased out by the interpretations of a dominant foreign power.

I of course only speak for myself, but think that I share some of nat's sympathies.

There's a certain disingenuousness that makes the difference between appropriation and... what would the term be...assimilation? I'm going to use my favorite icon of charlatanism, Trinity de Guzman of ayahuasca heaLings who, in his quest to start a for profit ayahuasca church, did so under the false umbrella of the oklevuha (sp?) native American church which itself twists and construes tradition to include everything except hard drugs as traditional sacrament. When trinity finally caved to pressure to stop lying about being legal, he submitted a proposal to the dea in which he outLined the tenets of the ' earth based healing ' religion he was creating. In it he included everything from abrahamic archangels, Hindu deities,some mystery school kabbalistic mumbo mumbo, south American tribal cultures, native American ritual and myth - with a good chunk of chakra and chi thrown in for good measure. He shows no understanding whatsoever of any of it, it just sounds good and looks really mystical.

He caters to a crowd of spiritual seekers, themselves perhaps not very knowledgeable about mystical things and presents himself as a great teacher when he himself has no comprehension of what he speaks.

It's that kind of. ..I Have too many words for it to pick one. .. that chafes my patooty.

For sure I totally understand where you guys are coming from and it rings true. As with many things the devil is in the details and I could see some situations where it is harmless and some where it could really be destructive to a certain tradition. I suppose it really depends on the circumstances.

I live in a place where Native American tradition has a strong presence. And I get defensive because, whenever in my community a white person does anything even remotely pagan and earth honoring they are often bashed for trying to appropriate native culture, even something as simple as drumming by a fire in the woods. So stuff like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people say or think one culture or dogma holds the keys to spirituality.

That said, the other extreme is like the example you just brought up. Definetly bringing all those traditions together reeks of a certain shallowness of understanding of those cultures, for sure not going to argue that.

But I stand by if a guy wants to use a dream catcher after a zen meditation, followed up with some ayahuasca, I don't see the problem if he is coming from a good place and following his heart. I only see it as a problem if he claims to now BE a shaman, and preaches to others. But I think your spiritual path needs to be totally up to you literally not even considering the opinions of others. Just follow the heart

People like tagging fast and lighthearted, for themselves and for others.
TAG tag tag .....
tag!

I seriously doubt it, unless they are some kind of sham artist.

by limiting yourself to the wisdom and knowledg of a single culture are you not in a sense cheating yourself from access to the wisdom and knowledge of other cultures?

If a person is interested in meditation, psychedelics, and lucid dreaming, would it really seem odd to see a dream-catcher, a copy of the Bardo Thodol, and an ayahuasqueros mesa in the same room?

It's great to take interest in these things, provided you have a good "bull-shit detector"



There are real mysteries, and the real mysteries can stand up to all the scrutiny that you or anybody else can throw at them, it's these mysteries I'm interested in.



-eg

Are you serious?

DMT shamanism is ancient.





-eg

Every culture in the world has shamanism in its past, even Europeans, so any shamanoloigist will likely have artifacts from multiple cultures and times in history.

Any modern person with an interest in practicing shamanism is also likely to incorporate shamanism from multiple cultures and places.

-eg