Ralph Abraham is a mathematician and chaos theorist...you may dig some of his work.

I never looked into any of the links.

Why would realizing that a physical body is not a prerequisite to conscious being cause a person to reject science...specially in favor of machine elves.

(Mckenna was a skeptic, and very scientific, the problem is people mistake "entertainment" for fact, mckenna was sharing good ideas not facts, and some people are unable to differentiate when he is speculating or generating novel ideas for entertainment, and when he is being serious.)

That was the one curse of mckenna work, it was too far over most peoples heads, not the concepts, but his intentions in speaking about them...

Spirituality just means you acknowledge that consciousness is not limited to.a single physical.body, place, or time, consciousness does not die with the body, because it's not a product of the body.

-eg

Neither Dawkins nor Hawking but I read an interviewer today ask Brian Cox if he has considered using hallucinogens.

https://www.theguardian....al-a-guide-to-the-cosmos

Alas he doesn't seem interested. I'm always amazed when I watch his documentaries at how he can make me see things differently and I think with a brain like that with knowledge of quantum physics and the cosmos a DMT trip could potentially be especially interesting.

You must get into theories of perception a lot at your end of science. With that in mind have you seen the value of hallucinogenics to shift your understanding?

No, I’m from what Richard Feynman calls the “shut up and calculate school”. Whatever you think about quantum mechanics, the role of the observer is quite slight, the science predicts probabilities very precisely and suggests that if you know how particles move around and bump into each other and do a bit of calculation you can build a transistor. It’s great. You can have loads of arguments about perception but the role of science is to make models, in my view, and you take measurements and make models and you see if the model describes nature. Take general relativity, for example. You have this model called space-time, which curves and warps in the presence of mass. Is space-time real? Is it a real thing? Is the universe really a fabric? I don’t know – but I do know the model works brilliantly.

Here's a more legit stance from Dawkins on psychedelics : https://richarddawkins.n...and-the-meaning-of-life/

thats by sam harris, not dawkins

I think you need to remember to look at psychedelics from the perspective of someone who's as devoutly materialistic as a lot of these atheists are. From that perspective, we psychedelic enthusiasts probably don't look any different from people who drink alcohol for pleasure and get plastered. We're altering our consciousness for some kind of 'high.'

It's the nature of this particular compound that it flips the cognitive switches associated with 'profundity,' and so we lap it up, even though (again, from their perspective) we're just giving ourselves cases of drug-induced psychosis.

I think this gives insight into prohibitionist mindsets too.

It's like a lot of Nexians look down on those who consume alcohol, or how I'm sure most of us would look askance at anyone who said 'hey, the shadow people I met after my 5 day meth binge have bee really insightful, wanna try?'

Blessings
~ND

spiritual =/= religous imo
I haven't tried DMT but have had spiritual experiences with cannabis and when sober. Hearing everyone's stories about their DMT trips isn't convincing me that there's anything supernatural out there, but that there's a hell of a lot more to the natural world than I once thought there was. Maybe when I get the chance and I'm in a better mind set I'll try DMT and report back.

Been trippimg for 10 years and have tried everything I could get my hands on, grow or extract.

I think I'm more materialistic now than when I started tripping.