DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 13 Joined: 22-May-2016 Last visit: 29-Nov-2016
|
It's been a while since I posted here. I'm feeling somewhat alienated by others' differing approaches to taking psychedelics in general, and more specifically ayahuasca. It's a powerful medicine that I feel pulled to share with those closest to me who are open minded enough to try, but I'm realizing that the way my partner is approaching taking it is completely different.
I usually make an effort to fast, refrain from sex, and set intentions beforehand. This kind of discipline and respect for the medicine has really helped me in the past to stay grounded throughout the experience. However, I'm finding that my partner is approaching taking it more as a recreational substance. This is deeply frustrating to me, and it detracts from my experience overall, because to me aya is a profound spiritual tool. At the same time, I recognize that I can't force my beliefs/approach on anyone else. Part of me wants to be patient with others and give them the chance to open up and see their potential on their own, but part of me is really disheartened.
I also don't have a good space to drink it alone, since I share my living space with roommates who don't share my perspective, and aren't especially spiritual people to begin with. I'm not comfortable taking it in the woods by myself. It's naive of me to expect other people to look at things the way I do, but I wish people would have a more open mind or at the very least give me enough space to do things the way I need to. In general I just don't feel like most of the people in my life feel connected to spirituality, and as I continue to grow in this way it makes it so much harder for me to relate to them.
|
|
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4031 Joined: 28-Jun-2012 Last visit: 05-Mar-2024
|
I hope things grow lesser irritant for you as time goes by. Just want to say that the word Spirituality is a very large box with a lot of meanings and practices in it, many things that might even be in conflict within the box itself. Blessed be.
|
|
|
Come what may
Posts: 1698 Joined: 08-Mar-2015 Last visit: 23-Mar-2019
|
Have you explained this to your friends in question? You may be surprised how receptive people can be when approached in a sincere manor. Give your buddies a chance and set the example. Sounds like your the level headed one in your group. Teach them. "In the universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link." ~Carlos Castaneda
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
|
Rather than forcing or convincing those around you to take interest in these things, I've found its more about finding people you can relate with, which can also be separate from your friends and family who don't understand or can't relate. Quote:He [Steve jobs] said there were things about him that people who had not tried psychedelics — even people who knew him well, including his wife — could never understand,” John Markoff reported for the Times. Think about this, there were things that Steve jobs could not even share with his wife, but which a psychedelic user would understand. -eg
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 203 Joined: 06-Aug-2016 Last visit: 16-Feb-2018
|
Can u define their "recreational" use please ?
If i drink aya its to Play with Gods, and to me its very Religious. I also tend to be in Shavasana 90% of the Adventure, while sometimes ill do push ups move around etc. since imo If i have work maybe these gods also do, so why should me in this human body go to them in their "free time" to get a 101 with Dr.Phil lol . F*** that lets play n be m8s. Also i dont view Aya as a mother to me thats a completely disgusting insult to my Earth Mother who is the Perfect mother. Aya to Me is The Ultimate Oiran/courtesan of the Highest Class . If im drinking her, and can feel her in my Reproductive Organs etc, well calling her Mother is a lil too much insestful for me . Final Incarnate is an RPG Character in Terra's Terra . Everything this character has done or does is part of an RPG Story
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4031 Joined: 28-Jun-2012 Last visit: 05-Mar-2024
|
Heheh good points here BTW, if I was now confronted with my self version 30 years ago, oh dear I would have given up on that poor guy LOL. In a manner of speaking. I mean, that's why I can not give up on others now, but by no means in a pushing way, that would work counter productive me thinks.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1023 Joined: 19-Mar-2016 Last visit: 07-Apr-2024
|
Well just because she isnt spiritual before using it doesnt mean she wont be while and afterwards. Im a deeply scientific person and not really spiritual at all. Ive yet to take dmt but even on LSD things I did felt like a ritual. Ofc I returned to my normal self afterwards. Some people might argue that my use is recreational some might not. I myself see it as kinda recreational kind of to find myself kinda for the experience. Also to change myself. But this is her descision and you cant force her to be spiritual. You can just try that you both accept the way it is. And after her first experience she might change her mind. Just like EG said. People have their mind. But after psychedelic use we share the thoughts and experiences we had. This connects people, an experience the stronger the deeper will the conection be. If you would meet someone on the street and ask them if they use psycedelics. If they say yes you will automatically think more of them as a user yourself.
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
|
Spirituality to me only means acknowledging non-physical conscious-being. A physical body is not a prerequisite for conscious-being. Before DMT I was agnostic, leaning towards atheist... DMT and myself is a lot like mckenna's interpretation of "Thomas the doubter", I could not believe in conscious-being after death, and ended up, metaphorically, with my hand in the wound of Christ, I was forced into non-physical being, I experienced death, dismembermentment, resurrection, and rebirth, but we will get to that later, for now let's review mckennas Thomas the doubter lecture: Quote:Real mysteries, you don't have to believe. You don't have to have been initiated. You don't have to have your aura cleared, or your mantras in order. Real mysteries operate and you get to touch.
My favorite story in the Gospel is the story of Thomas the Doubter because, remember, he wasn't present when Christ came to the upper room the first time, after the Crucifixion. And so Thomas came a couple days later and the apostles said to him, "the master was here, he was here," and he said, 'you guys have been smoking too many of these little brown cigarettes from Lebanon, we saw him crucified!" Well, so then Christ came a second time and Thomas was present and he said, "unless I put my hand into the wound, I will not believe it." So Christ said to Thomas, "come forward, put your hand into my wound," and he did.
Now my interpretation for that Gospel story is that ALONE, of all the apostles, it was Thomas the Doubter who touched the resurrection body because he was the only one who had his shit together enough to DOUBT! And so if you doubt, they will actually let you put your hand in the wound; if you don't doubt, they will give you any kind of crap and send you happily on your way.
Doubting doesn't get rid of the real stuff, becuase the real stuff is REAL. You need a crap detector to get you past all the phony baloney because you know people have been working miracles in the marketplace for millennia - that's just part of what does on in the marketplace - shell games, levitation, rope tricks, regurgitation of objects, it's just ho-hum. -terence mckenna
Here's what happened to me: Quote:*note: the dose range in this report is highly inflated, there is no reason to ever dose this high*
the first time I used N,N-dimethyltryptamine I smoked 200mgs of translucent yellow crystals on top of a small amount of high-grade cannabis, I consumed it in a single inhalation. I held the hit in less than 5 seconds when the rush began, "I don't believe it!" I kept repeating in my head, "this is impossible".... my surroundings began to quiver and slither apart, faster than anything I had ever seen everything began moving away from everything else in a mash of brilliant color geometric form, and speed, before fully shattering the "reality" in my visual and mental field, it came on like a freight train, I remember thinking "oh fuck! Get this stuff out of me!" And frantically trying to exhale. It was pure terror, I thought "now you have done it! You killed yourself!" After brief mourning at the life I had just departed from I began to pay attention to the present, I remember feeling like I was at the bottom of a foggy mountain with dirt roads, the clouds felt like a domed ceiling, everything was wet, misty, cloudy and rainy, I was overcome with an intense feeling of panic and deja-vu, I felt like a lost child, everything I knew about who I was or my life or earth seemed like a distant dream, like I dissolved out of existence, I interpreted this as dying, I knew that I was dead, and I was emotionally overwhelmed while confronting the event of my death, just like sand slipping through finger cracks I tried to hold onto this all as my entire identity as a human was dissolved, I remembered my name, the earth, my family, who I was, being a human, and life, but like grabbing at smoke, it was futile, all of this slipped away and nearly faded entirely out of my memory, impossible to cling to all this, I had to let it go...I kept thinking "what the fuck was life?" ...I could not tell if I was breathing or not, I would take air in, but couldn't feel it, I began taking in panicked deep breaths, thinking that none of the oxygen was entering my system, then noticed a pain in my chest, a giant mantis like being had its claws in my chest! It proceeded to tear open my chest and stomach removing all my organs and insides, I was about to go into shock when I saw a bright green light flash over my shoulder, it nearly hit me, it then became a beautiful fractal-geometric object, morphing and color changing, at times it was metallic at other times it was a beautiful jewel, and all the while to look into it was to view endless geometric fractal patterns, moving, morphing, and changing color. The mantis then put this object in my torn up body, he began to make billions of these objects, each one unique and radiating beautiful colored light, and the mantoid filled my body with them, billions of them, becoming small as atoms to construct the new insides of my mangled corpse, then I was sealed up and propelled into an orange light where I was resurrected, my conscious-being (soul) was becoming reunited with the physical world ...then I felt as if I was being pushed head first through a thick gelatinous membrane, violent gesticulations of the membrane surrounding me were forcing me through this thing...I was being born...slowly I began to recognize my surroundings, my face still covered in tears, I looked up and saw the branches of a tree in the yard all slither in sinister fashion in from all directions to take place and solidify as the tree in the distance, the world began to slither back into place, most things moved in an elegant liquid serpentine slithering motion, or like the dancing movements of a flame, as the world constructed itself back into the familiar, so did my conscious state and memory, I was still disoriented, and fairly traumatized, I thought I had been gone for millennia, "how long was I gone I asked?"...."about 20 minutes" was the answer ....those who were there said in reality I curled up into a ball and began to cry for 20 minutes, I was wondering why my face was wet, because it felt like I had actually just been through being born, I was still covered in tears...any way the immense deep spiritual and psychological implications of this experience left me for ever transformed, reborn as a new person entirely, it was the single most meaningful thing that has ever happened to me, and changed me in many significant ways, all for the better. -eg It's not that I "met God"...actually God had nothing to do with it...I experienced death, actual death, and then conscious-being after death, it's identical to "The Chikhai Bardo*" of Tibetan Buddhism, one key feature is that it's a between state, it's conscious-being, and it's after death, but it's not the "real" after-death, it's like the waiting room before reincarnation, or damnation/eternal paradise or whatever comes next. * Quote:The Chikhai Bardo is the after death state described in the Bardo Thodol (Tibetan Book of the Dead) wherein the consciousness of the dead person fully enters into the light of the dharmakaya or "truth body." (explained in the first part of this series).
In this state, the person temporarily experiences for the first time the state of awareness without a second, that is to say, a state of pure consciousness.
This is the state of non-duality. The first experience here is the sight of the Primordial Clear Light or the "Clear Light of Reality." This is the pure mind of the Buddha, Christ, and all the perfected saints and mystics.
It is generally accepted among various spiritual traditions that the total amount of time it takes to transition between two consecutive earthly incarnations is 49 days. During this period, the first 3 to 4 days are spent in the Chikhai Bardo wherein the Awareness-body is formed. The formation of the awareness-body is a significant point in this process since it will carry one’s consciousness when it travels the path through the afterlife. Anyway, DMT confirmed a good deal for me, the Tibetan book of the dead can work as a guide to the DMT flash just as well as it can work as a guide for actual death. I feel even the archaic ayahuasca drinkers made this connection between DMT and death, "aya" is quechua for "dead", "corpse", "ghost", and "huasca" is quechua for "cord", "rope" or "vine", it's "the vine of the dead" or the "vine of death", however in the west titles like this inspire negative connotations, so rather than have it become "the vine that causes death" in the paranoid western mind "vine of the souls" was chosen as the softer, accepted western translation. Can DMT make a person spiritual? It can, no doubt, but that's not to say that it will... If you can't grasp the implications of the experience you probably are not going to get much from it... I find most are almost too eager to explore this stuff after I have had a conversation with them regarding it, I actually have to turn down 95% of the people who ask to take DMT or yagé with me... I wish those who are trying to share this stuff with others the best of luck, though please be respectful and try not to be forceful or pushy, if someone doesn't get it then they don't get it, it's best to just let it go. -eg
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 134 Joined: 19-Dec-2015 Last visit: 12-Jan-2022
|
passiflora wrote:I usually make an effort to fast, refrain from sex, and set intentions beforehand. This kind of discipline and respect for the medicine has really helped me in the past to stay grounded throughout the experience. However, I'm finding that my partner is approaching taking it more as a recreational substance. This is deeply frustrating to me, and it detracts from my experience overall, because to me aya is a profound spiritual tool. At the same time, I recognize that I can't force my beliefs/approach on anyone else. Part of me wants to be patient with others and give them the chance to open up and see their potential on their own, but part of me is really disheartened. All of life is a profound spiritual tool. I was like you in preparation (although aya has not been amongst my tools), and a great ritual can do a lot to focus and achieve the right state of mind. Its not essential though, in Tarot there is the fool - and he is sort of the hero of the story, the fools journey stepping out with naivety and an open heart with hardly any preparation or expectation. In a way the fool is far more pure than the over thinking, worried and concerned traveller who needs to spend ages preparing for the journey. There is a frowning at recreational use generally on this forum, and I think it is where we see others not drawing as much spiritual growth from an experience in a way we would expect. I have a friend like that, we do not discuss things about it much as he talks about the cool patterns and how great he feels when listening to music+DMT - but he has changed, I have noticed a growing self awareness in him which he did not have before. So if you love your partner, love them for their differences. Talk about what you feel, and accept what they get from it - if you can both understand what you each feel from it or certainly accept it then that should be enough, you cannot expect others to be you. I speak as if it were fact, but indeed this is just the insane ramblings of my ego - but my inner self seems to be nodding.
|
|
|
veni, vidi, spici
Posts: 3642 Joined: 05-Aug-2011 Last visit: 22-Sep-2017
|
the way other people use psychedelics is irrelevant to you unless you make it a issue, if you dont like what they do and it becomes an issue maybe you should be more open minded about their approach. why does it matter how other people use psychedelics? cant you drink in your room alone? or do you share a bedroom? it sounds like you want everyone to do what you do, and if they dont they are not open minded. that seems silly to me, just do your thing and let others do theirs. INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT it's all in your mind, but what's your mind??? fool of the year
|
|
|
DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
|
upwaysidedown wrote:passiflora wrote:I usually make an effort to fast, refrain from sex, and set intentions beforehand. This kind of discipline and respect for the medicine has really helped me in the past to stay grounded throughout the experience. However, I'm finding that my partner is approaching taking it more as a recreational substance. This is deeply frustrating to me, and it detracts from my experience overall, because to me aya is a profound spiritual tool. At the same time, I recognize that I can't force my beliefs/approach on anyone else. Part of me wants to be patient with others and give them the chance to open up and see their potential on their own, but part of me is really disheartened. All of life is a profound spiritual tool. I was like you in preparation (although aya has not been amongst my tools), and a great ritual can do a lot to focus and achieve the right state of mind. Its not essential though, in Tarot there is the fool - and he is sort of the hero of the story, the fools journey stepping out with naivety and an open heart with hardly any preparation or expectation. In a way the fool is far more pure than the over thinking, worried and concerned traveller who needs to spend ages preparing for the journey. There is a frowning at recreational use generally on this forum, and I think it is where we see others not drawing as much spiritual growth from an experience in a way we would expect. I have a friend like that, we do not discuss things about it much as he talks about the cool patterns and how great he feels when listening to music+DMT - but he has changed, I have noticed a growing self awareness in him which he did not have before. So if you love your partner, love them for their differences. Talk about what you feel, and accept what they get from it - if you can both understand what you each feel from it or certainly accept it then that should be enough, you cannot expect others to be you. When you said: Quote:There is a frowning at recreational use generally on this forum, and I think it is where we see others not drawing as much spiritual growth from an experience in a way we would expect. I have a friend like that, we do not discuss things about it much as he talks about the cool patterns and how great he feels when listening to music+DMT - but he has changed, I have noticed a growing self awareness in him which he did not have before. I don't think it's anything against recreational use of compounds, it's more of a matter of respect and intention, I mean if you're just looking for a cheap euphoria or a party you may be better off with other substances. I've always wondered how some people can smoke DMT and take it so lightly, how it can have very little impact on some... ...Though I also feel most are afraid to actually take a committed dose of the compound, everybody wants this transformative experience, but nobody is willing to put themselves on the line to get it, not even for just 15 minutes... Here mckenna briefly touches on this topic: Quote:MT: Terence, you were talking about extra-ordinary realities and it occurs to me that there's an enormous amount of prejudice against the... psychedelics and the use of hallucinogenic substances and, it's almost as if there's an inordinate fear to open up the door to the closet that these substances reveal. Um, what about that prejudice? What do you think is- how's that gonna be resolved? What is the resolution of that?
TM: Well, I think it's it's more complicated than a prejudice. It's a prejudice born of respect, because most people sense that these compounds probably actually do what their adherents claim they do. It's possible to see the whole human growth movement of the 1970s as a wish to continue the inward quest without having to put yourself on the line the way you had to when you took 250 gamma of LSD. And, I think all these other methods are efficacious, but I think it's the sheer power of the hallucinogens that puts people off. you either love them or you hate them, and that's because they dissolve worldviews, and if you like the experience of having your entire ontological structure disappear out from under you, if you think that's a thrill you'll probably love psychedelics.
On the other hand, for some people, that's the most horrible thing they can possibly imagine. They navigate reality through various form of faith, and I think that with the psychedelics the doors of perception are cleansed and you see very, very deeply Again, I feel that if you can't grasp the implications the the DMT flash you won't obtain much from it... ...also, your 5HT2A/2C receptors are genetic, so it's possible that some people really are having an entirely different experience...which would make sense that this is why shamans would choose specific apprentices, they would choose those who are most receptive and can obtain the most from it... Again, here mckenna articulates related ideas: Quote:One of the interesting characteristics of DMT is that it sometimes inspires fear - this marks the experience as existentially authentic. One of the interesting approaches to evaluating such a compound is to see how eager people are to do it a second time. A touch of terror gives the stamp of validity to the experience because it means, "This is real." We are in the balance. We read the literature, we know the maximum doses, the LD-50, and so on. But nevertheless, so great is one's faith in the mind that when one is out in it one comes to feel that the rules of pharmacology do not really apply and that control of existence on that plane is really a matter of focus of will and good luck.
I'm not saying that there's something intrinsically good about terror. I'm saying that, granted the situation, if one is not terrified then one must be somewhat out of contact with the full dynamics of what is happening. To not be terrified means either that one is a fool or that one has taken a compound that paralyzes the ability to be terrified. I have nothing against hedonism, and I certainly bring something out of it. But the experience must move one's heart, and it will not move the heart unless it deals with the issues of life and death. If it deals with life and death it will move one to fear, it will move one to tears, it will move one to laughter. These places are profoundly strange and alien. -terence mckenna For a long time I assumed that these people were lying to me, (the people who can smoke DMT with a grain of salt), I assumed that they had not actually tried the compound, however I was wrong...now I'm thinking that either they were unable to grasp the implications of the experience, that they couldn't understand what was happening to them, like mckenna said Quote: if one is not terrified then one must be somewhat out of contact with the full dynamics of what is happening -TM or that they wanted to say "I've smoked DMT" but in reality took such a minuscule dose that it had no effect, they want to be able to say they had done it with out ever actually having to do it... I think this genetic aspect may actually be the answer, DMT, for some, is the key to the universe, while for others it has almost no discernable impact. -eg
|