hey guys i just wanted to talk about this with you guys because i might get more information from people on here than on other psychedelic forums.

So today i was going over this thread Improbability of Hyperspace which discusses whether the experience is "real" or not.

So ive been always very unsure about this and at times in my younger psychonaut days i felt like i should believe its not real otherwise people will think im a fool, a sort of intellectual peer pressure.
but many experiences and research i have done with DMT (specifically investigating/collecting reports of people encountering Jungian Archetypes which habitually occur like the clown/jester via my youtube channel) leave me unsatisfied with a purely materialist understanding of this experience i.e being nothing more than a result of neuro-chemistry.

Now i wont bore you with references to my anecdotal mystical experiences which further threw doubt into my previous peer pressured conclusions.

I would like to focus on one specific phenomenon which did raise red flags for me at least that there might be something more to it and honestly i didnt stumble onto this until i took things to quite an extreme.

usually when i smoked DMT, the experience would largely be internal in the closed eye visions. and even though it felt realer than reality there, once its over and the experience gets out of your system its easy to talk yourself into believing its nothing more significant than a visualization
when i smoked it like this i would rarely have much visuals in the open eye other than patterning and perception changes, even though the closed eyed visions would be profound. so i always just kept my eyes shut.
only once i experienced profound open eyed visuals by smoking a joint with dmt sprinkled on with friends at a rave, i smoked the most of it and cuz of the lights i had some really complex and colourful patterning which was very intense and the peoples movement almost become robotic and almost threatening.

But there was a time where i took it to the extreme.
at this time i was exploring combinations of 3-meo-pcp, 5 apb, and vaped DMT with an electronic tube vaporizer,.
And i sort of caused a bit of a psychotic state in which my consciousness was possessed by voices and i was having an internal dialogue and conversation with them.

i talked to a really smart guy on shroomery called redgreenvine and he told me this is why i had a conversation with voices in my head.


these voices told me very bizarre concepts that ive never heard about like how source split into positive/north and negative/south and hand to find balance to become whole or one again, like it was trying to use it as a metaphor for relationships and that this pattern echo throughout existence.

but anyways after this the voices told me to load a very large dose of dmt into my electronic vaporizer keep the lights and tv ON and pull as long and hard as i possibly can and keep my eyes "open" and "look"
So trusted these voices i did just that and i was in my basement with charlie sheens anger-management. My dad has all his electronics equipment in the basement like oscilloscopes, power-supplies, and circuit boards and wires everywhere including in the boxes on the floor.
So when i did this something different happening and it was pretty much the exact same scene from Toy Story where Sid finds out the toys are alive.

basically what happened was my basement turned into an alien spaceship. and the electronic equipment looked like it was 1000 years advanced technology, like someone dialed up the technological power of everything and now all the equipment was like fourth dimensional.
the equipment specifically the oscilloscopes, powersupplies as well as charlie sheens head was tessellating in dimensionality from low poly to high poly.
So

the wires and electronic nicnacs on the floor all came to life and start movement around, and everything that i was seeing was clear as day, everything was obviously not still anymore and were violently animated, not just subtle
The oscillioscopes and powersupplies and breadboard were alive and had faces and could move clear as day.

That experience felt nothing like a hallucinations but more like i was in a 3d modelling program like 3ds max max and somebody what fucking with the models.

What i find interesting is that under normal circumstances, i think very very few humans experience this dramatic type of open eyed experienced.

i can think of any other experience ive had in my life which causes such a profound change in the appearance of my environment.
this was not a pattern overlay or some sort of tracer or slight blending of objects. it was straight up transformers, more than meets the eye.

The issue i have is that it is so vivid and so precise. There is no blur to what you are seeing. I have trouble understanding how our neurochemistry alone can transform the appearance of something to the extreme AND bring it to life and animate it. It seems like a LOT of work for my mind and it does it flawlessly with no fuzziness to what you are seeing.
How come almost all humans go through their entire lives without experiencing just how dramatically the objects in their environment can change.

if it was just neurochemistry i would expect the most i would see is patterning overlay, and a sort of tracer effect, but it shouldnt get up and start dancing for me.

Has anyone else experienced dramatic open eyed visual effects where objects completely become something else and or start clearly moving on DMT?

sorry if this is long but i feel like its something worth sharing.

I remember when I had my first breakthrough, I took 3 big hits, and the aesthetic of the room was such that I knew I was in for a big one. I decided to take a fourth hit, which I had never done, and the open eyed surroundings were really just going bonkers. There was this sense of impending doom. Figuring that I had never gotten this far from the start, and might not have the opportunity again, I took the final and fifth hit. There was a grand theatricality to everything. I distinctly remember the lamp and the cable box looking at me with pity, as if to say (and maybe they did), "he's really screwed now." I closed my eyes, and the rest is a different story, but yes, I have seen the inanimate come to life.

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing. So within the materialist worldview it is believed we understand the mechanisms behind patterning and tracer and pareidolia maybe, but what is the explanation for this phenomenon in the op. If they focus on the typical points to prove the materialist view it seems a little strange that noone has put forth an explanation for this phenomenon

Also i experienced that lamp shade come to life, it was moving and alive and looked like it was taking a tophat off to gesture me

I'm pretty sure what followed when I closed my eyes shatters the arguments of patterning/tracers/pareidolia more than what I saw with my eyes opened

I've experienced this phenomenon quite often because I almost exclusively travel with eyes open. Often the motion of objects in the room is controlled by entities and becomes part of their demonstration to me about the illusion of physical reality. "If your reality was real, could we do this?" (objects fly through the air)

One possible materialist explanation is that you are perturbing the brain's model of the world around you by taking DMT. The brain is responsible for building a representation of the world from sensory data that is easier for you to understand than the raw neural signals coming down the optic/auditory nerves. During normal consciousness, it presents this model to you based on sensory data, during dreaming the sensory data comes from past experiences, and during DMT, you get a combination of both with a little bit of aliens mixed in.

well of course, but in the closed eyes you dont have to process your surroundings so its more sensory deprivation and white noise which adds to the vividness and complexity however most claim its no more interesting than a visualization.

But the idea that the visual effects are so strong that it animates and transforms objects violently seems a little harder to ignore. the visuals are not trying to overlay on the objects in your room; it possess them, animates them, and transforms them.

it could be, though its strange that unless dmt is involved this experience will probably never happen to anyone in their lifetime.

I would say experiences like you describe are actually quite common (just scratching the surface, indeed!). Open eye experiences, for me and many others I know, always occur when one chooses to not shut his/her eyes. With a properly administered breakthrough dose however, I've often found that it matters very little whether one's eyes or open or not - the experience is the same. However, there are certain occasions where it seems that the DMT realm "comes to you" and appears in the consensus world, rather than you going to it. Psychologist David Luke described an experience like this in one of his talks; Terence McKenna has also recounted such an experience when he combined DMT and LSD. However, usually the most immersive, deepest stuff happens with eyes closed, I have found.



Arcologist - What you describe here is consistent with both materialist and non-materialist models. If fact, several scientists/philosophers have used very similar considerations to those you describe above to argue against a purely materialist explanation of these and related phenomena (e.g., William James, Dennis Mckenna, Andrew Galimore, Aldous Huxley, Albert Hoffman, etc.)

Have you read Psychedelic Information Theory by James Kent? Based on your interest in the feedback you received from the Shroomery (which seems to be coming from a similar place that Kent has,) it seems a resource you might be able to pull more data that resonates with you from.

interesting stuff you guys.
ive heard of psychedelic information theory but havent gone into it fully yet, i suppose its time thanks

If you want to think hard about the neurochemical basis of reality, why not equally ponder serotonin, GABA, dopamine, glutamate and the all other neurotransmitters? If all consciousness is underpinned by matter-borne mediators (from a dualistic postulate), then what makes DMT special is that it 'changes the channel' on the status-quo neurotransmitter-mediated consciousness. But equally problematic is that these aforementioned transmitters mediate our normal consciousness in the first place. DMT may be considered as one of these status-quo neurotransmitters or as something more special really.
I guess what I'm trying to say is DMT is as much mixed up in the biological-perceptual system that produced it as much as the rest of the chemicals and matter that mediate our every day existence. So instead of questioning why DMT is special for affecting normal perception of 'external' reality with objects coming to life, shouldn't we reckon with the fact that normal neurotransmitters mediate any seeming reality at all?

I hope that made sense. It was a bit of a drunken ramble. But I'm trying to point out that things run a lot deeper than one's perception of external existence.

Much love Happy future travels

To me, it's not an issue of which chemical does what, so much as there is this phenomenon of objects appearing to come to life, which is interesting in its own right, outside of the reality of the situation or how it came to be.

i feel the same, because the position of the object appears to move. its not even like there is residue of where it was like a tracer, it is clearly in a different location and i always thought that it was strange that it changes the reality of the situation that severely.