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health care reform q.'s Options
 
burnt
#21 Posted : 8/19/2009 8:16:11 AM

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One of the amendments (maybe 10th i forget) sais that powers not specifically enumerated to the federal government are left to the states as long as they don't violate the rights laid out in the rest of the constitution (obviously).

So for state to do so seems to be completely legal.

The constitution was written to specifically limit federal power. To get new federal powers there must be new amendments which are hard to pass. There was good reason to limit federal power. If people listened to these limitations people like Bush would have been able to do what they did. Then again neither would roosevelt with his new deal (which didn't solve the depression btw).
 

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polytrip
#22 Posted : 8/19/2009 3:31:22 PM
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aren't there plenty of loopholes here? It all comes down to interpetation, right?

Personally i think that most part of healthcare could be better left over to the states, for reasons already mentioned.
But doesn't the federal government not already have a say in some aspects of healthcare? I believe that the CDC is federal, right?

So there probably are some ammendements past already that would allow for the federal government to do these sort of things.

Also, it's probably debatable if federal power would be expanded if it innitiated a healthcare program.
You could see it as just some federal project that is additional to what the state has the right to do, that simply is optional for everybody and not forced upon anyone.
If you have the right to stay away from it and if states have the right to do whatever they want, is it realy and expansion of federal power? couldn't you compare it with the giving away of free money to citizens, like bush has done? You just offer something and if people don't want to take this money they could sent it back.
 
burnt
#23 Posted : 8/19/2009 5:25:32 PM

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I actually don't see much of a big problem with a federal program either. And yes your right the constitution didn't explain everything in cold hard detail.

My only objection is that it has to be fair. That means allowing the private industry to become true free market not fake free market monopolistic protectionism. If the two systems compete off one another it would be great for society. But fair isn't something that the federal government understands and I think that's the problem.

I am also worried that the drug/insurance/management industry will sink its heavy hands right into the program which will again drive up costs and thus make the program expensive and bulky and difficult to manage. Basically they will conduct full scale robbery on tax payers instead of just those who have private insurance. They love this monopolistic game they are running. True competitiveness even if it involves a public option would force them to lose that. That's what they are really afraid of. They are afraid of having to compete with a public option as well as more competitive private options. This would result in them losing profits but it would benefit society and it would benefit smaller newer up coming companies who have good ideas and who aren't just focused on share holders but the most important thing, their customers and patients. It would also encourage the kind of innovation and cost saving but effectiveness maximizing we need in the health care industry.

I admit though I am getting really sick of conservative name calling. People are freaking out calling Obama a Nazi and all this other garbage without even knowing what they are talking about. Its really irritating because good ideas and critical views are brushed aside because of idiots who just scream the loudest.
 
polytrip
#24 Posted : 8/19/2009 5:50:19 PM
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We also have to keep in mind that there is no country in the world that has a cheap as well as effective healthcare program.

In every western country, rising costs in healthcare are a major problem.
And this put's pressure on the quality of the entire system in every western country as well.

This is something you cannot blame on any party, and there is no party that's going to fix it.
 
ohayoco
#25 Posted : 8/21/2009 1:00:36 AM
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Wow. Avaaz, the people who organised the petition that made the Peruvian government u-turn on their oppression of the native Amazonians in favour of big business, have started a petition to curb the American Right's lies about the NHS.

Check it out:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/...?cl=298217541&v=3812

More from Avaaz:
Avaaz wrote:
Obama's movement for change in the US is at risk of collapsing -- in large part because of lies about healthcare in the UK!

It's incredible, but Obama's health plan, and with it his entire Presidency, could be derailed if big corporations and the radical right manage to convince Americans that the NHS is a nightmare rationed service that refuses to treat patients and abandons the most needy, such as Stephen Hawking, without care.

We need a huge popular outcry to show the truth -- how proud and grateful we are in the UK to have a public healthcare system that works, despite its imperfections. Sign on to the message to America and forward this email -- if enough of us sign, we'll cause a stir in US media and help change the debate:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/reform_health_care_uk

US healthcare is run by large corporations - it's the most expensive in the world, but ranks 37th in quality, and 40 million Americans can't afford any care at all. It's an awful system for people, but corporations make enormous profits, so they're fighting to keep it. If they win and Obama fails, the Democrats could lose the Congress in elections next year. If this happens, progress on every global issue is endangered, from climate change to the war in Iraq.

We have no time to lose. Industry lobbyists are ramping up their smear campaigns right now to make sure the Obama plan is dead on arrival when Congress meets in September. Americans are hearing a constant barrage of propaganda that the NHS is a nightmare. Let's say it ain't so below:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/reform_health_care_uk

The NHS isn't perfect -- but it works far better than the US system. Let's stand up to the lies, and help save Obama's movement for change with the truth about the UK's healthcare system.

With hope,

Brett, Ricken, Benjamin, Alice, Graziela, Paula, Paul, Pascal and the whole Avaaz team.

Here's some links for more info:

Myths about the proposed health care reforms
http://www.communitycata...al_reform/alerts?id=0066

Extreme tactics of the conservative right
http://www.nytimes.com/2.../policy/04townhalls.html http://www.voanews.com/e...ish/2009-08-17-voa45.cfm

Paul Krugman on health care
http://www.nytimes.com/2...amp;sq=health&st=cse

The extent of the health care lobby
http://www.bloomberg.com...103&sid=aZdbr0YXz5jI

Health insurers stocks rise as health care plans fade
http://www.reuters.com/a...RE57G4BU20090817?sp=true
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
burnt
#26 Posted : 8/21/2009 9:15:15 AM

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Yea all this fear mongering and fear campaigning is awful. It really shuts out any intelligent discussions from the public and political arena. Its so stupid.
 
polytrip
#27 Posted : 8/21/2009 9:33:29 AM
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burnt wrote:
Yea all this fear mongering and fear campaigning is awful. It really shuts out any intelligent discussions from the public and political arena. Its so stupid.

It's worse; it's disgusting.
And it gives america a bad reputation.
 
ohayoco
#28 Posted : 8/21/2009 11:38:59 AM
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Yes it makes Americans look stupid, and their politicians look either stupid or plain evil (who knows which, maybe they're both!).
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
burnt
#29 Posted : 8/24/2009 8:46:00 AM

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There both Laughing
 
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