Not too many people have commented on this combination.

Can anyone shed any light?
Doses, experiences, the overall feel of the trip?
SWIM has got both ingredients and is wondering where to start.
Hopes it will give his mesc more bang for his buck

Sounds like a plan man...never tried it, but if I was in a position to try it, I most certainly would...

SWIM tried it a few times. The combination is nice. It's sort of like ayahuasca and very erotic. The THH blocks the stimulant effects of the mescaline and adds more euphoria, and alters the feel of the trip quite a lot. It also makes the mescaline about twice as strong if enough THH is used. SWIM found 200 mg of THH orally was enough to double the potency of mescaline, but 100 mg of THH did not double the potency. At 100 mg, the THH still alters the trip quite a bit though.

The highest dose SWIM tried was 200 mg of THH with 50 mg of mescaline.

OK, that sounds awesome.
Shall defo tell SWIM to try that out.
Less stimulating and more euphoric...sounds blissful : )

ron69 in terms of the visual where they more intense and do they change from this combination like giving some extra touch to the visuals

Be careful mixing phenethylamines with MOAI's. THH is not really an MAOI (although I think it might be mild) but other betacarbonlines are. There is a certain type of MAOI enzyme your not supposed to inhibit with phenethylamines but I can't remember which one. Anyone know?

The visuals were increased. SWIM found them more dreamy.

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Swim plans on 2 datura stramonium seeds plus one later with about 125mg of d-limonene extracted alks from dried San Pedro bark, then sublingual thh just before the peak. Maybe a second sublingual dose of thh later on. A trial run for the thh, but swim wont fly without the datura.

In a previous 69 post, It was stated that the first part of the S.P. trip is dreamy and then evolves into the clearheaded space that mescaline is known for. That was the experience almost to a tee the first time swim used snot tea. He hopes the Seeds and Thh will synergize with the cactus for a deep time.

Swim will let me know what to report tomorrow. He will eat the 'earwax' as is without capsule interference on an empty stomach followed by some toast with butter. Fat increases absorption speed as does caffeine, alcohol and carbonated water. Coffee will be swims choice.


Lets wish him luck,

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So. Its tomorrow. Swim loves hangin with Mescalito. Beautiful, but uneventful, night. No serendipity. No synchronicity. Just lovely close-eyed spectral perfection. Every detail explored, explained, understood. Astounding mental clarity. Some body load. Swim just added some sublingual harmalas and is awaiting effect.
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....calming.....
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.......Helping with the body load, actually. Should have remembered to take them sooner.
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Ni-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ice

J
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Thanks for the report dude.
How much and what MAOI did SWIM use for this experiment.
SWIM did 125mg of mesc acetate after munching 3 datura seeds. Its lovely, but as he was drinking he could have done with upping the dose a little.

Can anyone comment on mesc and syrian rue? good or bad idea? anyone have any experience with this combo?

Well I have many experiences with Syrian Rue and cactus together...in fact I think that pretty much all of my prior cactus experiences were combined with Syrian Rue...and I have one experience with mesc extract and rue.

I know the MAOI + mescaline gets bad press in some circles...but it was always good to me. My feeling, based on my experiences, is that, unlike a mushroom or DMT trip, the character of the Rue exerts little of its own character on the cactus experience, perhaps due to it's phenethylamine as oppose to tryptamine nature.
However, it allows one to eat 2-2.5 times less cactus for an equivilant dose...this allows one to go really deep with the cactus, and I've had some very deep, extra dimensional visionary experiences with this combination. Adds a bit more time on to the trip though, and you will very likely purge, possibly several times...don't fight it. Very euphoric body bliss.

A while ago now myself and a fellow explorer ate some 10x Syrian Rue extract...was tarry and a bit weird..never touched it again...but it made my friend repeatedly purge over, and over again, and really knackered him.

So with cactus, a little Rue goes a long way, no more than 2g I think...above this there will be very little increase in MAOI activity, but possible increase in unpleasant side effects.

I had one experience with Rue and a low dose of xylene mesc extract from San Pedro...I didn't like it actually. Increased the body load, felt just a tad unsteady on my feet, my stomach was weird for a long time, and felt 'dirty' for a mesc trip...so I won't be doing that again. Now THH + mesc, well that's a different story...

SWIM has tried a mix of pretty low dose brewed maya white cappi with alittle added thh (a very good sipping brew in itself) along with 260 mg of fully dried mesc acetate from san pedro. The cappi dose was so low so it was hard to separate from the few times SWIM has tried mescaline. The experience was beautiful, still came up pretty slow. The primary sedated wave that SWIM has felt with pedro was kinda blended with the cappi and was less amazing than without the cappi. The rest of the experience was overall better than without the cappi though. The dose ended up being more dreamy and sedated overall in comparison to straight full range mesc acetate.

Low doses of DMT were repeatedly smoked by SWIM a couple of hours into the journey and yielded some of the most amazing visuals that swim has encountered. VIbes of alice in wonderland but still different.

Now that sounds like the shit

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Sorry, Soulman, for the long delay in getting back to you on your question, but it's been until now before revisiting this thread. It was ~25mg THH under the tongue and the effects were to subtle at the time to notice.

I have again eaten the SP powder with my fiance and we both loved it. We doubled our dose about 2 hours in. I wanted to take caapi copy at some point but was having too good a time to remember. My next foray with this substancce will be in the 35 to 45 gram range. 24 grams is immense fun and a nice dose but next time I want to be immersed in the visions, as in up-to-my-neck! To me, SP is better than LSD, better than 'shrooms and really giving vapor spice a run. Of course how could I ever do without the dmt circus? Never by choice, I assure you.

Anyway. I know its a good idea. It can only add to your list of wonderful experiences. And the next time someone asks...you'll be ready.

I am sure that by now you have given iy a whirl, so, either point me to the thread(if you please) or share about it now.

Thanks,

J
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You guys should be seriously careful combining MAOI's with cacti. Many cacti contain tyramine which can cause a hypertensive crisis when taken with MAOI's. Also other phenethylamines that might be safe because your bodies MAO system is working may become unsafe if they are inhibited (although thats just speculation the tyramine issue is not).

Harmala alkaloids are RIMAs (Reversible Inhibitor of MAO subtype A), not full MAOI compounds. Tyramine is able to get attached to MAO-A and reverse the effects of RIMAs (this is why they are reversible) and it is then destroyed by MAO-A even when harmala alkaloids are present. Tyramine is also destroyed by MAO-B. RIMAs only affect MAO-A. Tyramine causes the "cheese syndrome" common to most full blown MAOI compounds. Harmala alkaloids are not known to cause the "cheese syndrome". So while caution should always be had when using MAOI compounds, harmala alkaloids are a little different because they are RIMAs, and so they are not nearly as dangerous.

SWIM and many others have used San Pedro with THH many times and never felt any negative effects at all. So while it's good to warn people about possible interactions, SWIM has found the combination to be without side effects.

Also its important to note that San Pedro and Achuma seem to contain their OWN MAOI COMPOUNDS!

The non-mescaline compounds in San Pedro are able to increase an LSA dose's potency by 5-10 times. So, SWIM’s own experience seems to confirm the present of MAOI compounds in San Pedro.

This MAOI scare is so overblown when it comes to RIMAs like harmine, harmaline, harmalol, tetrahydroharmine, etc. SWIM often eats aged cheese (it’s one of his favorite things to eat) DURING PHARMAHUASCA and never had a single bad reaction from it. Never. Not even a little bit. So I think this whole subject is bullshit. RIMAs, such as moclobimide, have been shown to be relatively safe to use with tyramine.

SWIM has never used RIMAs with any phenethylamines other than those found in cactus. MDMA and RIMAs might prove to be a very dangerous combination, but RIMAs and mescaline appears to be relatively safe, especially if the RIMA is THH. THH is a very weak RIMA.

I can confirm this a well. San Pedro + Achuma definitely do have their own maoi. A friend says last night he ate thh + mescal with no ill effects what so ever.

I must also say, that a few years ago he ate achuma resin (boiled down) with cocoa. BIG mistake. Spent over 12 hours with a blazing headache and nausea. I think he experienced seratonin syndrome?

Sometimes after taking MAOI SWIM has been fine no ill effects at all even after eating a bunch of cheese (pizza etc). But SWIM has also got an extreme head ache and painful feeling (yogurt + beer was eaten a couple hours after pharmahuasca). It was one of the worst headaches SWIM can remember ever having. SWIM thinks it may have been the beginnings of a hypertensive crisis. SWIM had taken harmine / harmaline mixture.

Therefore I don't think its all BS but I do agree that the worry is quite overblown. Ron your right that they are reversable MAOI's so in many cases tryamines and other potentially dangerous amines are not much to worry about. But there is still reason to be careful tryamine content can vary in cacti just as much as other alkaloids. Its also not much of a surprise that cacti have compounds that also act as MAOI's. But again the levels vary so its tough to say. Maybe there could be a cactus out there that is posiounous because it has MAOI's and tyramines but no one has ever eaten it.

Anyway I am just trying to alert people that yes you can probably get away with it many times depending on the dose and level of each compound in extracts / plants but that doesn't mean its always safe to mix such compounds with MAOI's. Honestly SWIM doesn't see eating cacti with MAOI to be much of problem (as long as tyramine levels in cactus aren't that high) but rather mixing other phenethylamines (amphetamines MDMA related compounds) who could be dangerously potentiated with MAOI's. Mescaline is probably very safe on the other hand especially with THH because its so weak.

Be safe.