Here is the background: I have a friend who smokes dmt, but she doesn't just smoke it, she claims that it is real, and that it is possible to influence what happens by using symbols. She thinks that the pentagram, with dmt , can do something, that there are ways to interact with hyperspace. Any thoughts?

weird....what exactly is she trying to do??

stick around and keep reading the forum and you will find that your friends beliefs are pretty average.

Magic does odd things to monkeys

My bet is the entities will find that hilarious

No but really, who knows how hyperspace really works... Im very skeptical when anybody claims to have THE answer.

But I think specially in non-breakthrough doses, one's state of mind may influence the experience. What does she expect will happen with a pentagram? Her expectations and fears might show up directly or indirectly in the experience.

A shaman once said that they can't control the river, but they can control their little boat to go to one side or another. This is already enough, since it can mean you avoid dangerous rocks or that you go to the nice places along the river. It might be similar to hyperspace.

Ask her to share what techniques she uses and how it affects her hyperspace experience, might be others can learn from it. Or might be that it is different for each person.

My room has quite a few odd things in it. I have statues of various gods and Buddhas, as well as a human skull on my desk. When I'm tripping, I sometimes look around my room and think, "Is this place occult?"

That's about as far as I've come to the pentagram.


I believe this: "whatever happens in hyperspace, stays in hyperspace."

Set and setting.

Not just important for DMT, but for life.

Symbolism affects us, and a strong symbol that means a lot to you is powerful, as much as a many others such as tidy rooms, candles, certain smells.

The pentagram has a symbolism that is strong culturally, for some it may bring demons, for another protection or power, and for others nothing. Symbols really are just that, and their meaning depends on the user. A cultural agreement on your symbolism can only make you feel it stronger.

Some may say even that this reality is but symbolism for the greater reality.

The downshot of this is that you can't just borrow someone else's symbols unless you share their views on it with equal conviction.

I think that your friend is watching way to many movies.

Okay, here's what she said happened (and of course I am skeptically interested), she smoked DMT, and for a while she would see the same things everytime she did it. She reported seeing books, writing, and language themed images. So she began smoking DMT while having a pen and paper in her lap, so that she could write down things. (She thought they were trying to tell her something, and that they would communicate through her onto the paper.) The pentagram was something that she reported having been "given", through this method. We both have our doubts still, but that is what subjectively happened.

Of course I have to express the de facto "hocus pocus" public opinion, but when I smoke it I often find myself speaking with entities, and if I can do that, is writing so much of a leap?

I've never considered attempting automatic writing in the dmt trance. Quite an intriguing idea. I'm curious as to the definition of pentagram as used here. Did it just come through as a star alone? was it in a circle? Was it right side up or upside down? Any other symbolism or context given? By what mechanism would she suggest symbolism effects the experience?

Why are you so interested in speaking with entities? Has it ever occurred to you that these entities might be evil? Explore and learn but don't trust anything you see in that place.

are you not interested in speaking to seemingly autonomous hyper intelligent beings? hasn't it occurred to you they could be gods?

goldygreen22, i think that's quite a cool thing your friend did, im gonna try it out, how deep does she go when she is writing these things?

I once had a LSD trip (combined with days of dancing and good hash) , and during the afterglow i saw a pentagram made of light for hours everytime i closed my eyes .
Afterwards i read that in celtic culture the pentagram was a symbol for death and rebirth (linked to the death godess Morgan), thats what the experience felt like .

Psychedelic drugs and magic go together like peas in a pod. The thing is... just staring at a pentagram is not going to do much (probably) if you are not familiar with and understand magic at some sort of level. I say probably, because symbolism is a very strange subject.... some people, like William S. Burroughs, believed that there is a fundamental architecture and organization inherent to all symbol systems that we can subconsciously recognize. I don't know much about this side of things, but I don't buy it...

I have personally found that the reason magic and psychedelic drugs go together so well is because they are working with the same areas of the brain.

What is ceremonial magic? Programming/hypnotising yourself through trance (a gnostic state, a state of one-pointed focus) and symbolism. When you chant mantras or stare at a sigil or recite an invocative/evocative passage under this gnostic state, you are (subconsciously) ingraining a very carefully engineered (hopefully) message or instruction into areas of your mind that interact with stuff on some REALLY STRANGE levels that nobody understands. I didn't buy into it either totally until I put in the work and saw the results. I'm quite a skeptical person, also!


Just staring at a pentagram prolly isn't going to do much, tbh. Perhaps, if your friend mainly associated the pentagram with protection, then entering a gnostic state while focusing on THE SYMBOL ITSELF, NOT ITS INHERENT MEANING before you smoalk the spice, she would hypnotize herself into believing that she is protected whilst in hyperspace. And the thing about hyperspace is, in my opinion, that it is a MIRROR of yourself! Not just some sort of "stagnant" psychology, but literally your thought processes in real time. If you have no fear because you have programmed yourself into "being protected"... thats exactly whats gonna happen!!!!! Unless you go in waaaayyyyyyyyyy deeper than you can handle.


Invocations and evocations with DMT can be really interesting... seems to change the whole "theme" of hyperspace.


However, if you are seeking results magic (sigils and servitors/egregores)... IME, DMT is not the best molecule. I much prefer low-medium dosage LSD. It has always seemed that my brain was in a much more malleable and self-suggestive state while I was tripping.



So here's where it gets interesting. Take a look at this thread that Nathanal.Dread started Psilocybin, a neural connectivity paradox

Essentially, ND is saying (if I understand correctly), that whilst under the spell of the mushrooms, the psychedelic state moves your brain into a more "entropically disorganized" state. He later goes on to say that this is almost definitely the case for other tryptamines, and perhaps even ketamine.

read: ENTROPICALLY CHAOTIC state.

Chaos magick works on the premise that everything is in a constant state of chaos. It has a lot to do with the same chaos that chaos mathematical theory does. If you set initial footsteps, energy is directed towards these footsteps and things work themselves out based on that direction.

If you can program yourself so that your brain manipulates these thought-currents that constitute our consciousness through ceremonial magic whilst under a HYPER chaotic state such as the psychedelic one, logically, under these premises, it follows that ceremonial magic might be more powerful than if doing it sober.

^^^^^^ just speculation but interesting to see how two theories about two different things tie together. All im sayin is that if you're interested.... give it a whirl!!! Might be a life changing paradigm shift.



I AM STRESSING THIS PART. MAGIC DEPENDS ON A GNOSTIC STATE. YOU NEED TO PUT TIME AND EFFORT INTO LEARNING HOW TO ACHIEVE THESE STATES. Mindfulness meditation and yoga are great starting points.

Here's my real advice though... if what your friend is looking for is protection, skip the whole pentagram thing. Learn a banishing ritual, and practice it until it becomes almost automatic. It is a garbage disposal for the subconscious mind. Seriously, if you are getting into magic, that is the VERY FIRST THING YOU NEED TO LEARN.

Banishing ritual. the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is a good place to start, but eventually you might find it worthwhile to develop your own.



Hopefully Hiyo will pop his head in here and give some advice!

The ancient Maya, Aztecs and Incas talked to those hyper intelligent beings/gods and sacrificed millions of people, even children because they were considered more pure. I have seen some of these entities and some of them don't like humans.

well, you don't listen to the ones who recommend genocide, that would be silly.

on the other hand, children are quite annoying.

Note to self: Genocide is not okay even when otherworldly beings say so...glad we got that cleared up!



On a slightly more serious note, entities can and will say all sorts of things. For instance, I've been told off for coming to hyperspace before while on the other hand I've been welcomed with open and loving arms from a variety of Entities.

And for a different perspective, my girlfriend has contacted many more entities than I have ranging from ones wanting to protect her to sexually fueled ones. Last night we tripped on mushrooms and she had some sort of psychedelic mind surgery from multiple entities who told her to be quiet and not tell me what was happening. Meanwhile, I met an owl being of some sort whose lair looked like the inside of psychedelic honeycomb...

I guess the point of this is that we can't take anything too seriously while in these states. It goes back to the grade school saying of "If someone told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?"
Just replace "someone" with "an entity" ...

Sorry for going a bit off topic, I would like to hear more about the pentagram experiments because it is always interesting to see how people influence their trips with various sets and settings!

In regards to writing during a DMT trip, I've done that without even knowing. During my shutout.