Hello all,

(Just so ya know, I’ve already searched for “insomnia” on this site and have found a few helpful ideas.

In your own experience, what ‘hypnotic’ herbs and/or other materials have readers used to successfully induce DEEP sleep?

A unique sleep disorder requires I use substances nightly that are very strong hypnotics. To avoid side effects, dependency, and loss of effectiveness, the plan is to stagger 4-5 substances over a 4-5 night cycle (i.e., substance 1 on night 1, substance 2 on night 2, etc., until I’m back to substance 1 again, and then cycle repeats).

Substances need to be in a form that either have a delayed effect or a very long lasting effect (e.g., herbal teas at bedtime are out due to their quickly fading effects; need something that really LASTS to keep me asleep). Capping powdered extracts seems to have some promise as far as prolonging effects.

Below are 3 short lists of what I've tried so far and what might have promise.

Many, many thanks for any and all suggestions!

Willaru
========================================

List 1—What has worked only a little or—for whatever reasons—is of minimal use:

* Passion flower powder extract (only a slight direct effect, though sometimes can catalyze effects of other substances)

* Piri-Piri (Cyperus articulatus) root, liquid extract (some effect, but no solid extracts available online that I can find)

* Skullcap powder extract (only slightly sedative)

* Valerian powder extract (some effect, but also can trigger GI issues)

* Wild Lettuce powder extract (only slightly sedative)
-- -- -- --

List 2—What has not worked well &/or somehow been unhealthy:

* Benzodiazepines (quick tolerance development, easy dependency, horrific withdrawal)

* Virtually all other pharmaceuticals—prescribed and OTC—as they’re too toxic and/or weak and/or addictive.

* 5-HTP (might have some effect, but also causes nausea)

* Alepidea alamatymbica (no effect)

*Ashwaganda extract (no effect)

* Albizia tree bark/flower (no effect)

* Chamomile (slight effect only)

* Damiana powder extract (no effect)

* Gotu Kola powder extract (no effect)

* Jujube seed powder extract (little if any effect on sleep; plus toxic effects (possibly toxin-contaminated)

* Kava kava (very little effect)

* Lemon Balm glycerin extract (no effect)

* Magnolia bark powder extract (some sedative effect, but also has significant toxic reaction, possibly due to toxin contamination (it always seems to originate in China).)

* Melatonin, any form (no effect)

* Mulungu resin extract (no effect)

* Papaver, etc. (poppies—all varieties) extracts (has sedative effect, but also tends to cause nausea and constipation)

* Pedicularis densiflora (Indian warrior head—related to ‘Elephant’s Head’ variety), resin extract (no effect when orally ingested; nasty toxic reaction when vaped! )
-- -- -- --

List 3—I have yet to try (has anyone had sleep-related experiences with any?):

* caapi leaf + passionflower tea

* Catnip powder extract

* Lillies/Lotuses powder/resin extracts

* THP (tetrahydropalmatine)

* ????
-- -- -- --

Some discussion in this thread may be helpful, maybe not.

Cannabis??? A knock out indica strain always puts me to sleep. I have insomnia after 4 combat deployments. Unfortunately, it also blocks my favorite part about sleeping; The dreams...Good luck on your quest.

OTC diphenhydramine may work to your benefit as a general hypnotic.

When u say "all pharmaceuticals" may you please be more descriptive with regards to which ones you imply by this statement? I doubt you've tried ALL of them...

Here are a few brain busters that're worth a shot or three:

Diphenhydramine

Doxylamine

Nitrazepam or any derivative thereof (PS: if benzos don't work for you, then you're just not taking enough)

Ketamine

High quality Kava root/extract (some work others dont keep on at it)

Red vein Kratom & extract

Indicuhz

EXTENDED RELEASE Ambien (Beware that walrus, d'oh)

DMT--after glow is great for sleeping

High dose oral cannabis

Hella Xanax

OOOOOOOooooorrrr

GO SEE AN ACTUAL DOCTOR

Us magical avatars of the interwebz can't help as much as a quality MD can..

Stay well,
-God

I take a pharmaceutical called Tizanidine for sleep, knocks me out pretty well. You could perhaps try some Syrian Rue extract, maybe mix in some Lemon Balm and Skullcap with it, that might be interesting. Also, there's been times i've taken Tizanidine like 6, 8, 10 hours after taking Rue, and not only do i have to take a half instead of a whole Tizanidine, but it also seems to be stretched out in duration, instead of only being 2 to 4 hours. I also take Melatonin, and sometimes Robaxin, but Tizanidine is what knocks me out.

If there's a plant out there that you think might help with sleep, try mixing it with Rue, it might work even better than the plant by itself. A combo of plants, generally seems to have more to offer, ime, than a single plant alone.

OTC Doxylamine Succinate works well for me. It's an antihistamine. Faster acting, and with much less hangover than with Diphenhydramine. If you have to get back up you can function and then return to sleep much better than Diphenhydramine.

Wow, thanks for all the tips! This will definitely keep me busy researching for the next few days! But, please, keep 'em coming in!

I've found that, for every 'silver bullet' substance, about 20 'duds-or-worse' must be waded through. (I really think I have an unusual metabolism or something.)

More personal replies:

Wolfnippletip - DoxyS is a no-go for me; no real effect for some reason.

ShamensStamen - Had never heard of Tizanidine before, but will make a no-pharma's exception for it (especially with your additional suggestions). Thank you!

God - Staying away from the pharma's as much as possible, especially the benzo's... (Yes, have seen actual Dr.s, who are more than happy to prescribe benzo's.... No, I haven't tried all pharma's (I'd probably be dead or in an institution by now! Let's jsut say that, fter dozen's of bad reactions to dozens of sleep-related pharma's, I've gotten a more than a little 'gun shy'.... Kannabiz doesn't really help; in fact, it tends to stimulate if taken too late. Taken early in the day can occasionally help...

pitubo - Saw that thread earlier, then just now re-checked it and found a very interesting Amanita m. combo I'd missed; thanks!

Depending on what your Dx is, you might be eligible for a prescription of GHB, which is pretty much the ultimate hypnotic.

Blessings
~ND

Are there any lifestyle changes you make to re-format your circadian rhythm? Or do your social/work circumstances not allow it?

Muscimol, the active principle in dried amanita muscaria mushrooms, is sort of a ghb analog.

The mushrooms must be thoroughly dried, this catalyzes the decarboxylation of ibotenic acid into muscimol. Muscimol is what you want, the ibotenic acid is more of a stimulant. It is a sort of msg (monosodiumglutamate) analog. It is the stuff that makes properly prepared (boiled in plentiful water, the water with most of the actives is discarded and the mushrooms are leached) amanita muscaria mushrooms taste deliciously.

PS: ghb can be horribly addictive and the withdrawal symptoms are frightening.