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Poll Question : How would you describe your political views?
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Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalism 27 45 %
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What are your politics? Options
 
benzyme
#121 Posted : 3/6/2016 12:59:23 AM

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you know it is.

when politicians hold closed-door sessions, red flags should be going up...because that is not how policy-making should be, not in a democratic republic. alas, this is a corporate republic.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 

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Psybin
#122 Posted : 3/6/2016 1:19:14 AM

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benzyme wrote:
you know it is.

when politicians hold closed-door sessions, red flags should be going up...because that is not how policy-making should be, not in a democratic republic. alas, this is a corporate republic.


I don't think it's fair to discredit every candidate as illegitimate. Bernie is funding his campaign solely through individual contributions and has fought against the policies you're lamenting. Just saying, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You guys are quick to discredit the democratic process, but really it can work if we remove the corruption and big money interests. It sounds really tough, and it will be, but there's no benefit in being cynical. If there's one thing DMT has taught me, it's to see the positive in the world and to actively participating in making it more positive. If voting will help even in the smallest quantifiable way, please go out and vote. I don't care who you vote for, but when we don't vote we don't have a choice at all.
 
benzyme
#123 Posted : 3/6/2016 1:26:28 AM

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It's not being cynical, it's calling it what it is, and has been for a while.
this is nothing new, just history repeating itself. the puppets have long been decided, by the old men behind the curtains, the oligarchs. DMT showed me nothing about this, because mindbending experiences teach nothing about greed.

look up Dartmouth vs. Woodward, and Southern Pacific Railroad vs. Santa Clara County...those cases mark the points in time where pure democracy went out the window.

want to make a difference? consume less. people will have to, eventually, out of necessity....economic collapse...and greed will be the root cause.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
thymamai
#124 Posted : 3/6/2016 1:31:36 AM

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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

Neither the Democratic nor the Republican party represents the interests of the competent (see aforequoted) in this country. And this has been the case for at least as far back as the assassination of John F. Kennedy (reference Executive Order 11110, which relates directly to Point (1), below). The competent have been disenfranchised in this country.

_______

Now, as to the political parties as they are currently cashiered, controlled, and constituted, and how they are to blame for the fall of the United States:

I'll preface what follows with a statement that I will never support a political party:
whose historical record has supported slavery
that has given us the slaughter of the innocent unborn into the tens of millions
that has given us the income tax
that has given us the very institution that (in the US) is responsible for monetized debt, called the Federal Reserve (and by extension, the Bank of International Settlements)
that has given us the ponzi scheme of "Social Security"
that has given us a "healthcare system" that they had to pass in the middle of the night behind locked doors because in their own town hall meeting their voters were uproariously angry
that is the party of socialist special interests
Now, as to the Republicans: what was heard from them when they got in front of the microphones and appeared on the Sunday morning talkshows in the wake of their 2010 and 2014 congressional victories--victories based on nothing other than people voting on what they percieved to be as the lesser of two evils--was about how they were going to bring jobs (back) to this country. Which is ironic because it was (primarily) the Republicans who, starting with the Reagan administration, have been the political party responsible for GATT, NAFTA, and all the other amalgamations of rampant, full, laissez-faire, international free trade policies that have handed the US's manufacturing base to China (among other nations)...I'll address this in point (2), below...

But the Repubicans--even while alarm bells should have been ringing in 2010 and 2014 to even the dullest of Republican politicians that the very survival of their party as a viable political entity was at stake--have never even talked about the

Two essential steps for reducing the federal deficit and bringing real, breadwinner, middleclass lifestyle or better, jobs back to this country:

(1)
You cannot reduce a govenment debt so long as a private banking cartel has a monopoly over the issuance of that government's currency. Because when a private bank has that monopoly, the bank cannot issue currency--it can only loan it. So, there is never enough money in circulation to pay the interest on the principal that is in circulation: the debt can only grow.

The only way that this country was set up, in terms of monetary policy, is that the government issues real money--whether it's gold, silver, talleysticks, or what have you--on the goods and services produced by the nation. In other words, real money is a reciept on those goods and services.

The (cynical, disingenuous, and false) argument of the international banksters (and if someone wants to tar me with the same tired strawman that the international bankers set up and funded in the first place, then that person can eat shit, because the term is accurate) is that, if governments take over the issuance of money, it will lead to runaway inflation...but, in actual fact, at every point in history when you study the policies of these banksters--from the days of their headquartering in ancient Babylon, to Venice, to Amsterdam, to the City of London and New York City--it is THEY who have promoted runaway inflation, not governments.

The 13 Colonies that existed (prior to the 'American revolution'Pleased were issuing their own debt free money and had excellent prosperity and full employment...and of course the banksters and the (City of London controlled) Bank of England had to come and shut that down and that led to the "Revolutionary War"--and that is a fact that you won't hear in history classes--not, at least, in Government funded school.

^^That's necessary policy (1): if we are to be serious about servicing (reducing) this runaway debt--and if we want to fund the grab bag of "wonderful" entitlement ponzi programs--which should never have existed in the first place and which are synergistic with the current monetized debt scheme in destroying whatever good might be left of "Western Civilization,"---if you really really want this, then the first thing we should be doing is getting back to Constitutional money. The "Federal" Reserve and BIS must be audited. Find out who owns the shares, find out how much money--how much blood--has been embezzled in the last 100+ years and mainlined into funding the world wars and the pools and the mansions and the yachts and the corporate jets of the international banksters...and try these people in the World Court or in a back alley or in a stadium or wherever...and execute them.

The international banksters must be destroyed, from baby to Baron.

(2)
You can talk about sound money all you want, but if money is based on the goods and services of the nation, then you have to have people producing things. And I don't mean flipping hamburgers at McDonalds. I don't mean babysitting 75 IQ monkeys in the daycare centers that are euphemistically referred to in the US as "public schools." I don't mean working jobs in callcenters at LG or Verizon. I mean people making cars, toys, toolboxes, shipping containers, televisions, computers, spacecraft, railroad tracks, airplanes, and what have you: in other words, real manufacturing.

The reason we don't have real manufacturing (other than the defense contractor corps) in this country is because of the Republicans under Ronald Reagan endorsing (with the exception of Harley Davidson) and carrying out a rampant, laissez-faire, international "Free Trading" policy. The only thing that resulted from that was that US business could not compete with the cheap labor in other countries and therefore manufacturing fled from this country.

If you are going to be serious about bringing back jobs to this country, you GOP Establishment Republicans, then the first thing you must do is to raise tariffs to protect the industrial and manufacturing base here.

Take, for example, Germany. It's a country not much larger than Texas, yet it is the 5th largest economy in the world. And while it is true that Germany (until its immigration "policies" make it otherwise) produces excellent engineers and such, the main reason why Germany even has a viable heavy tool and die industry is because they have erected significant tariffs to protect that industry.

____

Assuming that Trump isn't simply a big entrainment/psyop being carried out at the behest of the "Cock club" and their leaders (the Rockefellers, Rothschildes, Maurice Strongs, Schiffs, etc.)--and that's a big assumption that I'm not at all comfortable in believing in or making--then this current Trump phenomenon, or some analog of it, should have been entirely expected

Neither Trump nor Sanders are addressing (1), but at least they are bloviating a little bit about (2), and that is the reason why there is tremendous support for them.
 
Psybin
#125 Posted : 3/6/2016 1:53:14 AM

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benzyme wrote:
It's not being cynical, it's calling it what it is, and has been for a while.
this is nothing new, just history repeating itself. the puppets have long been decided, by the old men behind the curtains, the oligarchs. DMT showed me nothing about this, because mindbending experiences teach nothing about greed.

look up Dartmouth vs. Woodward, and Southern Pacific Railroad vs. Santa Clara County...those cases mark the points in time where pure democracy went out the window.

want to make a difference? consume less. people will have to, eventually, out of necessity....economic collapse...and greed will be the root cause.


I don't disagree with any of that. I try as best I can with humble means to live sustainably, but I fear you are right. Even so, giving up achieves nothing, though I'm not accusing you of that either. I guess we simply differ on our diagnosis of the nation, as I tend to see it as still worth saving and still capable of being saved, though not for very much longer at this rate. I presume you feel it's worth saving but not capable of being saved. Is that so, or do we differ in some other regard?
 
benzyme
#126 Posted : 3/6/2016 2:08:38 AM

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I observe equilibrium, mostly in the thermodynamic sense...because the current economic model is unsustainable, and business is completely dependent on the environment.

both sides are bought and paid for, but adaptation is inevitable, or the country will face another revolution.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Psybin
#127 Posted : 3/6/2016 3:43:24 AM

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benzyme wrote:

both sides are bought and paid for, but adaptation is inevitable, or the country will face another revolution.


I could not agree more.
 
dreamer042
#128 Posted : 3/6/2016 4:39:04 AM

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pitubo wrote:
All the brouhaha about candidates is just showbizz and entertainment. It is, in the end, distraction from any actual political process involving citizens. Everyone who buys into the election show is simply volunteering to be reduced to an audience. The whole show is a troll.

^ This



As an aside, am I the only one that sees the irony in "anarchists" pushing the importance of voting for a political representative. Confused

You want a better future for this planet? Teach a child how to think critically amidst the lifetime of propaganda they are destined to be inundated with.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

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slewb
#129 Posted : 3/6/2016 5:47:22 AM

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I can't get on board with the whole just don't pay attention and it will all go away attitude. Yeah the whole system is bogus, and the next presidential election in the US is just going to further divide the nation no matter the outcome. But for me, from a pragmatic standpoint, I have to support certain candidates over others. Because if some people get elected and do what they say they are going to do, I lose my health insurance, friends and peers are deported and/or persecuted, shit I might not be able to get married just because of someone else's religion. It's easy to plug your ears and go "lalala I can't hear you" but unless everyone does it at once (which good luck with that) the reality is that it does matter who gets elected, even if they are all a bunch of crooks in the end.
 
Praxis.
#130 Posted : 3/6/2016 6:00:31 AM

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Quote:
I can't get on board with the whole just don't pay attention and it will all go away attitude. Yeah the whole system is bogus, and the next presidential election in the US is just going to further divide the nation no matter the outcome. But for me, from a pragmatic standpoint, I have to support certain candidates over others. Because if some people get elected and do what they say they are going to do, I lose my health insurance, friends and peers are deported and/or persecuted, shit I might not be able to get married just because of someone else's religion. It's easy to plug your ears and go "lalala I can't hear you" but unless everyone does it at once (which good luck with that) the reality is that it does matter who gets elected, even if they are all a bunch of crooks in the end.

This right here.

I personally choose to look at voting as a form of harm reduction.

Some peoples lives might continue to go on more or less as normal regardless of who gets elected, and therefore it's easy for them to simply dismiss the entire process and go on with their day-to-day routines. While for others, the election of one candidate over another has very real and imminent consequences that could uproot their entire livelihood.


Quote:
As an aside, am I the only one that sees the irony in "anarchists" pushing the importance of voting for a political representative.

We gotta actually pull ourselves out of the shit-pool that's killing us before we start thinking about how great the shower after is going to be. Anarchy as I understand it is an evolving process and not a static set of end-goals; part of this means being strategic about how we use our power. When it is in our best interests, it can sometimes mean jumping through hoops even though we think the hoops are bullshit to begin with. It's just a strategy, not an endorsement.

If everyone suddenly agreed not to vote for anyone and to start self-organizing, then sure, that would be really powerful. But for that to happen everyone has to agree not to vote, and that's just not gonna happen. In my opinion that line of thinking is comparable to the logic behind the "Just Say No" policies surrounding drug abuse. Obviously some people are going to choose to do drugs that are bad for them, period. Instead of telling everyone to imagine a fantasy-world where nobody does drugs because they were "raised right", it makes more sense to me to acknowledge the reality of the situation and act accordingly. Needle exchanges are not endorsements of opiate abuse, they are examples of strategic measures of harm reduction taken to save lives in the face of a crummy situation.

I did not believe in voting for a very long time, and refused to participate in certain political institutions for many of the same reasons mentioned by others here--and I won't condemn or shame anyone for choosing not to vote. For a lot of people it is a conscious political act, and that's something I can get behind in certain contexts. I just hope those folks are actually doing something else too.


On another note, I want to ask the people here who happen to support Trump why that is? Specifically what about his platform do you find appealing? Not "making America great again" or any vague cryptic riddles or anything like that--which proposals of his do you support and why? Additionally, as a person who uses illegal drugs, do you feel like Trump's presidency would have any kind of impact on either your life or the movement for cognitive liberty and/or drug policy reform at large? As a disclaimer I'm not trying to pick a fight or encourage all the lefties here to gang up on you, I'm genuinely curious.
"Consciousness grows in spirals." --George L. Jackson

If you can just get your mind together, then come across to me. We'll hold hands and then we'll watch the sunrise from the bottom of the sea...
But first, are you experienced?
 
Ufostrahlen
#131 Posted : 3/6/2016 7:03:42 AM

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Praxis. wrote:
On another note, I want to ask the people here who happen to support Trump why that is? Specifically what about his platform do you find appealing? Not, "making America great again" or any vague cryptic riddles or anything like that--what policies of his do you support and why? As a disclaimer I'm not trying to pick a fight or encourage all the lefties here to gang up on you, I'm genuinely curious.

I think the person Trump (not his policies, they change within hours anyway) is support worthy because:

a) he would be the more honest face of the US. Under Obama torture, drone wars & mass surveillance are still acceptable. Why should Hillary or Bernie stop this crap, if Obama hadn't stop it already? And with Hillary things surely wouldn't stall.
b) let's see if checks & balances are still intact
c) Fox News hate him, this should make you think. They are really angry that they wasted $130M on Jeb! Now they can't get their way Thumbs up
d) there's a certain comedy factor involved

Btw I'm not in favor of torture, hate, mass deportation or wars, I just think Trump gives the status quo a more honest face among the, by nature, dishonest contestants.
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anne halonium
#132 Posted : 3/6/2016 9:11:21 AM

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my support for trump is simple.

im sick of political rodents.
all the rodents fear him.
^thats the exterminator im calling first.

i surely dont expect rodents to take out other rodents.
thats the core problem, for 40 yrs, its been a circle of rodents called dempublicans.

"loph girl incarnate / lab rabbits included"
kids dont try anything annie does at home ,
for for scientific / educational review only.
 
thymamai
#133 Posted : 3/6/2016 9:13:50 AM

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And Trump is the Rodent Par Excellence. That's why I don't mind if he wins. America is long gone anyway.

Edit.. Oh but a different kind of rodent I suppose, not the usual rodent that takes other rodents and feasts on the remainders. More like a hermit with no fuel nor fire in his innards to compose anything respectable and decent or either.
 
anne halonium
#134 Posted : 3/6/2016 9:19:02 AM

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anyone here other than me who has actually met any of these rodential candidates?
or is every opinion based on the TV images?
"loph girl incarnate / lab rabbits included"
kids dont try anything annie does at home ,
for for scientific / educational review only.
 
thymamai
#135 Posted : 3/6/2016 9:33:24 AM

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That's what I want to know. Are people that base their opinions on tv sideshows trustworthy in their judgement of what America truly deserves?
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#136 Posted : 3/6/2016 12:29:13 PM
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Quote:
The Chinese understood that these temporal elements were in a sense creating interference patterns with each other much in the way that pure tones struck out on a keyboard will, through their interference with each other, create a melody. So that, for instance, uh, if I find myself sitting in Hadrian’s hamburger joint enjoying a burger, by this theory, there would actually be a relationship between that act and the emperor Hadrian’s campaigns in Britain before the fall of the Roman Empire. This is the amazing thing which James Joyce used and understood in the construction of his literary works – that a man, leaving his home in Dublin on a day in 1905 to buy kidneys to fry for breakfast is in some mysterious way actually repeating the peregrinations of the hero Odysseus around the Mediterranean in his campaign to destroy Troy and return to his faithful wife. Allegory is what we're talking about, but allegory has never been taken seriously by science – analogical reasoning is definitely déclassé in the better laboratories. But in this ancient Chinese way of looking at things, everything was caused by it analogical resonances with past and future events which had the same temporal elements embedded in them. Now, it’s difficult to go into this without resorting to at least charts and diagrams if not puzzling equations with sigmas embedded in them. -terence mckenna


What if trump was the direct resonance of Mussolini...

"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." - Karl Marx



It's so easy to dismiss trump as a baffoon....

At the same time I can't look at a motion picture of Mussolini without laughing, the wild gesticulations and over the top posturing makes it seem laughable...

But when you get down to these people's politics it's horrifying.

It's hard to keep laughing and dismissing all this...

Peace and love are the answers, that sounds like an oversimplification, but it's really not, it is that simple, selflessness, compassion, and love can solve all the world's problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#137 Posted : 3/6/2016 12:48:02 PM
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Though grandpa Munster...I mean Cruz, or Clinton, are all really hard to say anything good about either...

What do you do when all the options are equally unappealing?

Does it even matter? Honestly, the president really doesn't have all the power people think he does, while your distracted with these elections the people really in control are operating out of public view...

Ok, I'll stop now and let the conversation resume.

-eg

 
Psybin
#138 Posted : 3/6/2016 1:39:27 PM

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anne halonium wrote:
anyone here other than me who has actually met any of these rodential candidates?
or is every opinion based on the TV images?


Actually yes. I've had lunch with Clinton (not a cheap lunch! thankfully not on my dime or I'd never have gone. i don't think you should have to pay thousands of dollars just to meet the person speaking and voting on your behalf) for one of her fundraising events two years ago. Not a fan. I've met Bernie years ago while he was still mayor of Burlington when I was more active in Cooperative Extension and other non-profits around here. He really is a good hearted person and seems to care about his fellow man, which is more I can say for Clinton or the Republicans. But thanks for assuming that only you were special enough to have met a candidate. As if millions of Americans haven't done the same.

In any case, regardless of who we elect; I firmly agree with entheogenic-gnosis that Trump is absolutely no different than Hitler or Mussolini.

http://www.newyorker.com...ture-desk/trump-man-meme

 
inaniel
#139 Posted : 3/6/2016 1:50:24 PM

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I voted 'anarchist'. Reading this thread reminds me why I hate politics. Carry on..
 
dreamer042
#140 Posted : 3/6/2016 4:58:35 PM

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It's so adorable that you people think your vote makes the slightest bit of difference. Let me tell you about a little thing called The Electoral College. Remember when the American people picked Gore back in 2000 but got Bush anyway? Yep.

Go ahead and vote for the bigot or the hippie. The banks own the game, their puppet always wins.

Sorry for the spoiler, hope you can still enjoy the show. Pleased
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