Most times when you hear about Ayahuasca you hear that it is a mixture of two plants and that the secret to Ayahuasca is that one of the plants has an MAOI which allows the DMT in the other plant to be orally active. DMT is often seen by westerners to be the main active ingredient, and sometimes just view Ayahuasca as "orally active DMT." It is even often said that neither of these plants is active on its own....

But a lot of that is misleading.

Ayahuasca is the name of the medicinal/entheogenic tea, but is also the name of the vine used in this tea (banisteriopsis caapi). This vine contains harmine, harmaline and tetrohydroharmine - all of which are beta-carbolines and MAOI's (Monoamine oxidase inhibitors - it inhibits the Manoamine Oxidase enzyme in the stomach among other functions). The tea is named after this vine for a reason - it is the only necessary ingredient in Ayahuasca besides water.

Like I mentioned before, many westerners think of the DMT as the main active ingredient (DMT is traditionally added from either chacruna or chagroponga). But there is no DMT in the Ayahuasca vine. DMT has to be added to the tea as an admixture plant. Because of misinformation many people think that you need both plants in the tea for the tea to have any effect, but this is actually not true. The vine is medicinal and visionary on its own without any admixtures.

Many people get challenged by this idea because it is so drilled in their heads that DMT is necessary for the tea to work.... I think this idea originally comes from the McKenna brothers actually - this myth that the indigenous people of the Amazon had to figure out which plants were combined to make this magical effect possible, and how impossible that would be since neither plant is visionary on its own.... But the situation seems less impossible when you realize that the vine is visionary and medicinal on its own, and that they could then test that vine with all kinds of other plants to figure out which ones potentiated the vine.

In indigenous practice the main role of Ayahuasca is to teach you about other plants and open up the medicine of all other plants to us. Because of this some tribes have hundreds of different admixtures - while some of them are used to change the effects of Ayahuasca, many are just added when the shaman wants to learn that plants purpose or medicine. By adding a bit of a plant to Ayahuasca, Ayahuasca will teach you about that plant. Using this method it is easy to imagine how they started adding the DMT admixtures to Ayahuasca.

Even though the vine is visionary on its own, its effects are much more subtle then when you add DMT containing admixtures. The most common for the tea takes in its modern usage is certainly with DMT containing admixtures - the DMT does add a lot to the experience. Not only does it make the tea more visual, brighter and easier to see, and more powerful in effect, it also adds its own helping spirit (since all plants have their own spirit - especially master plants like chacruna or chagroponga).

Some people do prefer the vine on its own more then with admixtures though. Some tribes only drink Ayahuasca with the vine only and never add admixtures, and some tribes drink it both ways depending on their intention. Some people I know switched to drinking vine only because they preferred it to the admixture brew. One common reason seems to be that they found the visions distracting or overly intense with DMT, and vine only brews allowed them to drink more caapi without being overwhelmed. They could focus more easily on the insights they received when they weren't distracted by visions (while visions can be helpful for gaining insights, some people gain insights other ways - through thoughts or emotions ect).

I read once that Richard Evan Schultes preferred vine only brews to those with admixtures - if you don't know who he is, you should really take the time to research him because he is one of the coolest people who ever lived. (he is also the only reason any of us westerners know about Ayahuasca!)

When scientists first started experimenting with harmala they actually named it telepathine because of its "telepathic" abilities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmala_alkaloid). Somehow this gets overlooked when people claim DMT is necessary for Ayahuasca to be active.

So if Ayahuasca can be powerful and healing and visionary on its own without any DMT in the tea, we see that Ayahuasca is not just "orally active DMT" but is its own medicine which can be made more powerful with DMT if you choose. The DMT is not what makes Ayahuasca though.

One of the most exciting parts of this realization to me is that if DMT is not necessary for Ayahuasca, then in many countries you can make legal Ayahuasca! In USA for example, only DMT and DMT containing plants are illegal - Ayahuasca and its alkaloids are not scheduled substances. So anyone who wants to can make 100% legal Ayahuasca or even host ceremonies if they had enough experience using vine-only brews. I know a few people who do this, but I think it is often overlooked by many people.

So hopefully this clears up some common misinformation about Ayahuasca. It is not just orally active DMT (its effects are totally different from smoked/vaped DMT actually). The admixtures like chancruna and chagroponga are great, but they are not necessary for Ayahuasca. Maybe you will even feel called to make your own vine-only brew and see how it compares - while many people like the more vivid DMT containing brews I do know a number of people who prefer the more gentle vine only brews. Vine only tea can also be great for beginners, sensitive types, people trying to heal mental illness which DMT might aggravate, those who want legal medicine, or for people microdosing. It has a few special advantages in certain situations.

For those wanting to read more about the origins of Ayahuasca and how its use might have developed I suggest checking out this article: http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2012/04/on-origins-of-ayahuasca/

very informative post that really more people should know. Mass spread misinformation is to blame and this basic traditional knowledge is no secret to any ayahuasca tribes, Personally i find caapi only brew to be verry psychedelic and have had some of my most deep healing out of body experiences with it. Besides being great for starters , If ready and want to try something different, take high "jungle brew doses" like ~300 grams of caapi only (NOTE, at these high dose levels important to add no admixture!). Can be very physically demanding and ofcourse best to start low and slowly work ur way up to what you can handle as everyone is different, but once you get up there prepare for the unpreparable

300 grams of caapi with admixtures added would be way too over the top! Perfect example of a good time to stick to vine only

I cant even imagine that much vine with toe' - that would be over the top!

Glad more people are seeing the benefits of vine-only brews - there is a lot there and I think it speaks to the band-width and potential of Ayahuasca that there are so many different completely valid ways to work with the medicine.

Is it true that if this is the route one would like to take, one should have a semi-restricted diet?

You can diet as much or as little as you would with any Ayahuasca. Some people diet and some dont. I feel like I personally benefit from 2-3 days dieting beforehand.

Thank you travsha for such valuable, if often-overlooked, information!

What an enjoyable read.

Indeed, I thought to know all about vine-only, still our friend touched particular refreshing details, thank you travsha

Shipped vine is obviously dry and only 1/4 to 1/3 (as I've read) of its original fresh weight, while containing fairly unmodified amount of harmalas. The numbers of the available concentrated resins also refer to the fresh vine numbers IMO. This situation has led to numerous misconceptions in how-much-vine dialogues.

For those so inclined, the vine-only brew combines very well with Salvia Divinorum too...

Good point!


Would you be able to share more about that experience? I have never mixed the two, but I do sometimes chew Salvia leaves and I once dieted Salvia... I have only heard reports from a couple people on this combo before....

I have approx 200g of the cielo caapi vine, dried. Do you think 100g is a good starting point? Most likely I will juice fast for 24-48hr.

So far I have only used changa and sublingual harmalas before freebase (love this). I would like to move toward aya slowly but I do want it to be enough to do some work and caapi alone calls to me as a great place to start.

Hi Travsha, I've used quids and tincture, with up to about 50g of yellow caapi. Obviously there's no potentiation or increase in duration, as salvia doesn't contain any alkaloids. Basically, I find the caapi (or rue) to make the entry into salvia space much more manageable, and easier to navigate.

When I took salvia alone, lying flat on my back, it would always begin with a feeling of being 'dragged away' and then set into motion, and no matter how much I tried, I could never conquer my pre-trip anxiety due to this.

With caapi (or rue), the same things would occur, but I was like, "Yeah! Bring it on!" Once, in total darkness, I swear I saw two shadowy figures grabbing my feet, and communicating "Come on buddy, time to go, you know the drill!" and off I went.

Am I the only one to find salvia-space much more 'kinetic' than DMT-space? My POV is all over the place with salvia, whereas it's reasonably steady with DMT. Consequently, I still consider myself very much a novice, even 20+ trips down the line. But I still love her deeply, and attribute many positive changes to her, especially once I started to incorporate harmalas.

The only other thing, the addition of caapi seems to boost the hyperthermic effects of salvia slightly. I sweat easily anyway, but caapi seems to make the difference between returning dry or wet...!

Hope I've not gone too far off-topic.

Nice Post.
Smoking vine Alks is great too.
Adding DMT turns it into some thing very very special.
Two different experiences but I love both.

hello DeltaSpice,

do you have a certain amount of vine alks you use per joint or is it a "see how i feel" kind of job?

Hi 3rd,
When I first started to smoke Alk joints I used 100mg but now I just eye ball it.
I would think I use 50mg or less per joint. Too much Alks and it wont burn properly.

It takes a bit of practice, you have to roll the joint loosely because air can not pass through the powder and you can not strain the joint or it will just set alight half way down (nightmare)
Cigarette filters work well to stop the mullein fibres passing through.

I've been trying Harmine and Harmaline joints recently. Harmaline will dope you up
The picture is my Harmine joint , smoked as I type this.

Probably fine to start with that much if it is just caapi. For some people that might be overly strong with admixtures, but just by itself... Probably a decent amount. I know some people who use as little as 50grams, and I think one person on this forum mentioned 300 grams, so people can work with very different amounts and there isnt one universal dosage or anything.

Strange - I never experience anything like that with quids. I experienced that feeling with smoked salvia, but chewing salvia is always super easy, gentle, smooth and anxiety-free for me. I have never had a single challenging quid experience - for me they are always gentle and smooth.

I guess salvia could be more kinetic then DMT - DMT isnt very kenetic for me at all. Ayahuasca I find is also very kenetic, probably much more then salvia for me.

Thank you for this post. Until recently I was, like many people, very confused about what Ayahuasca actually was. You are probably right about myths stemming from the McKenna brothers' exaggeration of the insights of the South American medicine men.

I am looking forward to taking my first Aya experience when the time is right.

additional vine-only link information:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=69515
hxxps://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69515

good topic travsha, thanks

..the other side of the McKenna brothers mythology, though, is that they found that the more traditional 'deep amazon' brews (mono-lingual indigenous rather than mestizo) had 3-4 times more caapi than required to activate tryptamines..which is also 3-4x more caapi than a typical 'modern brew', be it mestizo curandero, santo daime, or most home experimenters..

this also corresponds to reports given to me by a friend in the late 80s/early 90s who did some deep ayahuasca training for months...the first few times he drank with the shaman he was too ill to get or think about visions...deep cleansing was required first..and also large dose vine only cleanses were done..the reason, the shamans said, that they added chacruna leaves was to 'make the visions more colourful'...but the base of the drink is the vine..

the point of this, is that, based on this, and the traditional reverence for the vine, i did drinks in the 90s with just the vine, at 500-600 grams..

now, most people will tell you that with high dose harmalas, the experience becomes increasingly 'toxic'..

i say what the old school amazonian 'shamans' say...one has to be really really 'clean' in the system (in certain ways) to handle these kinds of brews properly..
with no attention to diet (especially for a week or so), i find a high dose harmala drink unpleasant indeed..
but, with attention to diet...these just Ayahuasca immersions are deep and potentially life changing..

[i'm probably going to start yet another thread 'Diet Debate III: The Final Conflict' soon..]

the effects of these large dose just caapi drinks - yes a lot of sedation, and drifting in and out...very dream like, with amazing visuals, not in the style of dmt, but more mono-chromic photo-reality...dream like scenes of places, animals and people, often in a kind of blue or sepia-tone wash....and shape-shifting into power animals...and very 'amazon', as in the river..

i'm not saying try this at home, but just that the Ayahuasca is a powerful entheogen on her own (rue too, with different qualities)

..more reasonable doses of the vine (on it's own) are still very much worth appreciating...for that 'feeling' and grace she has..and is of course medicinal in a number of ways..
.

Wow, that is a huge dose of vine! Bet that was interesting. At that level it probably isnt very "subtle" anymore lol