That doesn't really change much.

Right now most legal highs are already sold with the label 'Not for human consumption'. I don't see what exactly this act will change?

One thing I would like to point out is that this bill does not criminalize simple possession unless the substance was imported. As long as UK citizens get their substances domestically, they probably won't face criminal charges.

Open suppliers, however, will have a rough time. The bill says that suppliers that are "reckless" to whether or not their consumer(s) will consume their products can be charged. Thus, placing "not for human consumption" on the label probably won't do the trick anymore.

The new psychoactives will probably be pushed to the underground.

I can only hope that equacy is included in the ban. Just think of the children.

Ponies definitely have to go! and bicycles... way too many people die from bicycles.

On a more serious note, MHRB is not covered by the bill (AFAIK).

What's funny is certain owners of certain businesses (have to keep that one vague...rules) are already misinterpreting this act, missing out the part about items being 'sold for human consumption', and planning to close up shop when this comes into 'force'. So we have a mess of an act that is absolutely unenforceable, hypocritical and completely backward followed by pointless closing of businesses that it does not even effect!

A thousand facepalms.

I wonder how they will define psychoactive. From what i understand, it means...

"something that changes brain function and results in alterations in perception, mood, or consciousness."

I think caffeine would fall under that description, as would sugar, chocolate, nutmeg, poppy seeds, morning glory seeds, about a million foods that contain tryptophan, and a basically endless list of other common products.

What a stupidly vague law. This is how things get out of hand though,you make the laws so vague that they can be interpreted in such a way that everyone is a potential criminal, and then the police can harass anyone at will and "let things slide" or not at their leisure.

The police are not supposed to dictate what is acceptable or not, which is what happens with these garbage laws. Their function is to enforce the laws that have been approved through the proper channels and there should be NO gray area about what is or is not legal.

There's already a ruling by the European Court of Justice concerning vague "legal high" laws and it's in favor of the consumers:

http://curia.europa.eu/j...amp;dir=&cid=386694

The German state used to declare all psychoactive substances ("capacity to modify physiological functions") as medicines and therefore made dealings with it punishable under medicinal laws, which the European Court of Justice overruled.

If the UK works by European principles, then there's a good chance the law might get pulled (sooner or later). Also the supply and demand principle now makes the suppliers rich, which leads to better lawyers and more juridical pressure.

Caffeine is specifically exempt, as are foodstuffs and alcoholic beverages. All the psychoactive materials I'm interested in just happen to be foodstuffs and beverages, so the UK government can go stick their useless, ill-thought-out law!

Interesting note about the EU precedents, Ufostrahlen. I'm envisioning this law being repealed before it even gets to come into farce force in April. I invite everyone to join me in realising that vision

I'm planning on handing myself in for importing chocolate, or some such nonsense. If we could do a mass action of wasting massive amounts of time, it might get the ball rolling. I'm not so good with European court of justice stuff

An illustration of some of their 'thinking':
here


Paper is subscription only? I'd like access. tyia

I think we are well past that point now.

I mean, the Police set their speed traps/cameras usually 10% above the speed limit. 71mph on a 70mph road is illegal. Not that I'm complaining, but it highlights the point.

... and seeing as I travel alot with work I am FOREVER seeing Police cars flying past doing 80-90mph, with no blue lights on. It would seem that the Police are free to interpret laws however they see fit.

Brilliant! Do it, and I hope it makes vice news. !

I'll check the date that the law comes into force and attempt to get a bunch of people in on this. Fancy a trip to the UK anyone/everyone?

Unfortunately Chocolate would be exempt from the law is it is a common food substance, similarly they even have an exception line for nutmeg. I think your loophole is probably something like solvents, but even if you make a stir about the stupidity of this they just need to add the item to the whitelist of allowed substances.

Ouch I just imagined the legal high shops now selling a range of glues and paper bags, and various aerosols - and totally legally. And to be fair, your youth looking to get off their face is now looking at this as the only available alternative to alcohol without finding a dealer and then potentially getting something REALLY dangerous.

This whole debacle is political pressure to get rid of legal high shops, because culturally they are despised, and because potentially lead to random dangerous chemicals being sold to kids (although the dangers pale in comparison to alcohol and tobacco, and to be fair the only reason this exist still is economic and cultural with other government work against each). The obvious alternative is to legalise the drugs people want (i.e. cannabis, shrooms etc), and better regulate their use - which every science advisor on drugs has been telling the government (shortly before getting dismissed).

Thing is that the largest chunk of voters are aging conservative baby boomers, taught from a very young age that drugs are evil and will destroy society unless you are drinking and smoking yourself stupid at the pub - so it really is political pressure to look good to the voters.

Once the kids start doing far more dangerous legal substances (I wish this would never have to happen), we could see some real decent reform - but it may take another 20 years for the conservative aging population to stop being such a political force. Or heavens forbid, for the young liberals to start voting rather than saying "feh!" to politics.

The future does look positive though, Trump in the US, and UKIP followed by an oppressive Conservative majority in the UK are getting the liberals to start getting involved. Drug laws aren't a priority in this, but an epic fail on this law should help.

Problem is that for most normal people, drugs are seen as methods of escapism that detract from life and ultimately destroy it - with no intrinsic value (and its probable that for some and their use of them this may be true). Hell, a lot of intellectuals I know consider all subjective experience as delusion and of no value. This is a current cultural problem that cannot be removed until it has served its purpose, which is to kill religion. When religion is dead the new spirituality can rise from the ashes.

On a personal note, it doesn't make what we do any more illegal in the UK, its just screwing up supply lines for a while - stock up for a few dry years at least.

.

First businesses are starting to go kaput. God job!

Guess it's just a business opportunity for other EU shops to fill in the gap (namely CZ & NL businesses). Some of the mentioned substances could be legally imported thru the US into the EU, if you want to dig into the legal literature. If the substance is not medically approved, it's a chemical and not subject to medical laws, according to the European Court of Justice.

So while various RC and nootropic companies are going under, I have noticed that ethnobotanical suppliers have just changed some of the text on their websites and seem to be carrying on as usual, unless I have missed something?

Yep, MHRB vendors are also shutting shop. Not because of the direct impact this Act has on MHRB or other DMT containing plants, but because of fear of future amendments to the bill and entrapment by the Police.

The more I ponder on the subject, the more this Act frustrates me. Not only are they retrospectively banning "legal highs" that aren't on their approved list of drugs, but they're also banning any future 'psychoactive substance' that hasn't even been invented yet, regardless of if it's good for you or not.

I wonder if things like Alpha Brain are now illegal? As technically that IS psychoactive yet doesn't do any harm to anybody?

I watched a few of the debates in Parliament, it made me cringe. Not only did the MP's have NO IDEA what any of the mentioned drugs actually did, but some of them couldn't even pronounce the names of the drugs correctly and at NO POINT was there any scientific evidence brought forth. The act was based purely on their draconic (and fucking terrible, if you don't mind me asking) ideologies rather than on a rational basis.

I GET SO ANGRY! ERTKGJUBNERIOFUBGIDFIKJUB TAKE THAT, PUNY KEYBOARD.

LOL,

I know exactly what you mean.Guess what, 'Poppers' were gonna be outlawed but because some MP complained and said he needed them for gay sex, they exempted them!! Unbelievable but true!

Reference to plants, this has ALWAYS been a grey area, but the law appears to be written in such a way that has to prove that these substances are intended to be consumed. If they are not for consumption, they cannot be psychoactive.

I guess unless substances are actually named as banned, then it remains open to interpretation and availability?

They tried this ban in Ireland, and it failed, now i believe Ireland is considering decriminalising drugs. Will be interesting to see what happen over time with all of this.

It happened in Portugal, I see no reason why it can't happen elsewhere.

But upwaysidedown has hit the nail on the head:



While I wholeheartedly agree, I consider myself a 'young liberal' and there simply isn't any political party that stands for what I do. The Liberal Democrats aren't exactly Liberal...

What else is there? UKIP? The amount of UKIP votes in the last elections obviously gave the main parties a kick up the arse but it didn't stop this bill going through parliament. 4 years prior the '4th' party for votes was the BNP and look at where they are now, they've been outcast by the media and are simply labelled as a 'racist' party, yet comparing their manifesto to that of UKIP, it's hard to spot the differences on many of their proposed policies.

My generation is, unfortunately, stuck. The vast majority of friends and acquaintances my age share my own liberal views on drugs and we can only hope that as this generation matures (and the previous generation die off) things will perhaps change.

Out of all the Western countries, we now seem to have the strictest drug policy in existence.....