SWIM used red rum and it worked. Look on the net for the acetaldehyde content of various types of rum and use the one with the most acetaldehyde.

I don’t know if a very low pH will damage the LSA/LSH, but I doubt it.

I don’t recommend the freezer. That might slow down the reaction too much so that you might need to let it sit for a week or more.

I don’t know if whiskey would work. If it’s high in acetaldehyde, then yes it would work.

Thanks so much for all those responses, haha, supreme. Tried my brew and it worked well, not sure if its lsa or lsh, little tired and a little stimulating. I only used one oz for 5 seeds so maybe more rum is need to convert it. I will look up he acetaldehyde content and find out thanks again.

damiana

SWIM got this over from drugs-forum but thought it was important for people on these boards to see it. one poster argues that the reaction to LSH will not occur without other catalyts but SWIM thinks that since there is such a miniscule amount in a dose of LSA that the comparatively large amount of acetaldehyde, that at least some LSA will be converted to LSH and some is better than nothing, thats why it is sometimes difficult for some to tell the difference between what they assume to be LSH and LSA.


This was another poster's argument that reaction will not occur...

by TheBadMan
In searching through patents I have not found one that documents a synthesis of LSH. The method for obtaining LSH from C. purpurea cultivation appears to be commonly used by Farmaceutici (Italy) and is described in US patent #3060104.

I could not find an example of LSH synthesis. Related alkanolamides were synthesized by preparing a mixed anhydride by condensation of lysergic acid with trifluoroacetic acid. For example, US patent #2997470 to Eli Lilly describes the preparation of the l-valinol amide of d-lysergic acid and d-lysergic acid N-1,1-dimethylethanolamide. For the amide of l-valinol, 2-amino-3-methylbutan-1-ol (valinol) is added to the mixed anhydride which is in acetonitrile solution. Similarly, the other alkanolamide is formed by reaction of the acetonitrile solution of carboxylic acid derivative (the mixed anyhydride) with 2-amino-2-methylpropan-1-ol (an aminoalcohol).


In a hypothetical reaction of acetaldehyde with lysergic acid amide (ergine), the amide moiety is already connected to the ergoline backbone, so the acetaldehyde needs to be attacked by the amide nitrogen. These reactions are substantially different. The patented process involves preparing an activated carboxylic acid derivative (the mixed anhydride) for attack by an amine (the aminoalcohol). Acetaldehyde and lysergic acid amide would require a reaction between the carbonyl carbon and an amide nitrogen, neither of which will be quite as activated towards each other as in the patented process. I suspect that other sites on lysergic acid amide would be more likely to attack the carbonyl carbon of acetaldehyde, but I doubt an alkanolamide would form.






here's the post SWIM made about it...

by Desertfox
LSA



Acetaldehyde




Once the acetaldehyde is protonated, it tautomerizes to its enolate form. the Nitrogen from LSA then forms a bond with that carbonyl carbon of the enolate and loses a proton, to produce LSH.


LSH




SWIM believes that the new functional group leads the structures increased psychedelic effects. You can tell from the structures that LSH resembles LSD more so than LSA resembles LSD. Thats all swim meant, sorry for the confusing typo about LSH being more psychedelic than LSD, that is not true.

SWIM also knows that the reaction will not occur so easily as it does on paper, for the reasons stated by thebadman. But since it is theoretically more psychedelic than LSA it would make sense for someone to mix it with peppermint Tea in the hopes that a few molecules undergo reaction, and the LSA that does react will remain unscathed and still have its effects. Since a dose is such a minute amount it is possible enough will react, that increase in effects may be noted. So in other words it won't hurt. Using the peppermint Tea will only increase your chances of having a blast, unless of course there is a lot of chlorine in the water you used for the tea, then SWIY is fucked.


Oh and here's LSD so you can compare the functional groups on the nitrogen...

LSD





__________________

I know some of you out there are apt to believe the statements above because you've failed at making LSH and those statements above help you feel better about you're failure. Don't fall victim to that kind of crap. Try it again. Find out what you did wrong. When it works, the difference is HUGE, not a tiny difference, the experience is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SWIM knows the effects of LSA and LSD very well. He’s used them many times. He guarantees that when the reaction works, there is NO NOTICEABLE LSA left at all in the experience. It becomes almost identical to an LSD experience at low doses. Totally different from LSA.

According to Albert Hofmann (the inventor of LSD), LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde. Adducts are very simple to make. You just mix them in solution, that's all.

The effect of adding acetaldehyde is HUGE. SWIM cannot feel any leftover LSA when the process is done right. So, like I said, I think those guys don't know what they're talking about and I believe Hoffman does, and that LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde and nothing more. No complex reaction is needed to make it. You just mix the two together and LSH forms. And I believe all of the LSA forms LSH, not just a small amount of it because you cannot feel any of the effects of LSA after this is done right.

When the conversion from LSA to LSH is complete it feels COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The reason some people can't tell the difference is because their conversion failed. It doesn't always works, but when it does, the difference in effects are night and day. No one would ever think the effects of LSH are anything at all like LSA. It's that different.

SWIM has some old HBWR seeds lying around and having heard from the reports on this board he'll have to try it himself. Now is a good a time as ever especially since SWIM just ingested his last blotter the other day.

Sure Balaganist

LSH comes on far quicker than LSA, within about 30 min as opposed to an hour for me personally. LSH is far more acid like in the visuals and in the total experience, I had far more symmetrical hallucinations much less fluid than the LSA hallucinations and there were no visions that were induced during my LSH experience, where as in my LSA experiences i have always had intense and vivid visions.

LSH lasted for a much shorter duration than LSA and is far less fluid comprared to LSA, I also didn't get that childlike wonder from LSH that i get from LSA. So all in all i much prefer the LSA experience personally but i think that everyone should try an LSH experience for themselves as the experience can vary greatly between different people.



Much Peace and Happiness.

So the rum didn't convert enough lsa into lsh the first time(not enough acetaldehyde I'm guessing) but when I added peppermint to the rum and let it site overnight in the fridge something has happened. The effects are much more fun, euphoric, stimulating and lsd like, and it is very noticeable. Thanks ron for this new recipe. Will use with care.

damiana

Cool!

I think the whole LSA to LSH conversion controversy comes from people failing at the conversion and then assuming it’s a load of crap and its just placebo or something. SWIM happened to be lucky on his first try, and he was amazed by the results. Since then the conversion has failed a few times, and so I can see why some people think it’s a load of crap if they did it and it failed. But when it works, it REALLY WORKS. No one would ever mistake properly converted LSH for LSA, no one.

SWIM has been experimenting with this quite a lot recently and since using peppermint leaves instead of peppermint oil or alcohol, and letting it sit overnight in the refrigerator, it’s worked about 90% of the time. But still, sometimes it fails, and I don’t know why. It’s a real mystery. When it fails, SWIM adds more peppermint and tries again and it usually works. So if any of you try this, find it doesn’t work, add more peppermint and try again. When it works there shouldn’t be the slightest hint of any LSA sedative effects felt. It should feel stimulating, euphoric, and be very LSD-like.

Hey ron just curious, do you know if the LSH converts back to LSA after cooling down from the fridge? Or maybe just because it has sat for awhile and has slowly converted back. Thanks.

That’s an excellent question. I wish I knew the answer.

LSH is the closest thing chemically to LSD found in nature, and like LSD it is inherently unstable. Even within the cells of the tough Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, it breaks down over time into acetaldehyde and LSH and the acetaldehyde slowly vaporizes away.

Acetaldehyde boils just below room temperature (20.2 °C, 293 K, 68 °F). I don’t quite understand how peppermint can retain its acetaldehyde content. It seems like it would all vaporize away when stored at room temperature. But apparently it takes quite a while for it to all escape the cell walls of the peppermint. The same is apparently true for Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds.

When Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds are picked fresh, that’s when they contain the most LSH. Maybe storing in the refrigerator would prevent the breakdown of LSH into LSA and acetaldehyde?

I imagine that LSH is very unstable at room temperature and much more stable in the refrigerator.

SWIM has had the best most complete LSH conversions when it’s done in the refrigerator with peppermint tea for 24 hours. I think the cool temperature of the refrigerator helps the LSH form from the acetaldehyde and LSA.

Once the tea is taken out of the refrigerator, SWIM always drinks it immediately. He never lets it sit at room temperature.

Possibly, if allowed to sit a room temperature it will break down into LSA and acetaldehyde again. But I really don’t know. There is such little information out there about LSH. Other that what’s on PubChem and what was published by Albert Hofmann about LSH, the rest of the LSH information on the net is probably inaccurate to say the least.

Here's the XLogP3 information for LSA, LSH, and LSD

LSA XLogP3 1.6
LSH XLogP3 1.9
LSD XLogP3 3

You can see that the higher XLogP3 of LSH should ensure that it crosses the blood brain barrier better than LSA, but still not as well as LSD.

Here are the molecular structures of LSA, acetaldehyde, LSH, and LSD from PubChem:

Aha, thanks for the info... kinda makes sense of something for me: I prepared a litre bottle of fresh peppermint tea infused with 10 crushed HBWR seeds, left in fridge overnight, then packed into my rucksack to take to a festival... the bottle was left in a hot tent for a day or two before the majority of it was drunk. The effect was sedating and quite subtle, very different to my previous try with 2 seeds in a small amount of peppermint tea drunk after 2.5 hrs soak.

Do the datura dose last the whole trip or do I have to fill it up again later?

There’s no need to dose again with the Datura. The alteration it produces lasts the full duration of the trip.

The small dose of Datura stramonium used (usually about 3 seeds) lasts 6 hours total, which is about the same as LSA/LSH. The difference is in the peak. Datara peaks after about 60-90 minutes, while LSA/LSH tends to peak after about 2-3 hours.

I don't really know if the heat exposure has anything to do with it. It probably does. It just seems to me that the acetaldehyde bond to LSA is very fragile and heat is probably going to break the bond. But I really don’t know.

Sometimes, SWIM does everything exactly the same and the LSA to LSH conversion fails anyway. It’s a mystery, especially since SWIM is using the same batch of PURE LIQUID LSA which doesn’t vary at all. The only things that could possibly vary are the peppermint, time it's mixed, and the temperature. It could be that some batches of peppermint are just low in acetaldehyde and just won’t work.

If anyone can figure out why this conversion sometimes fails, if it’s heat, bad peppermint, or whatever, it would be fantastic. It’s such a bummer to do the tech and find out it failed after giving it out to a bunch of friends.

It would help if those who’ve failed can add to this thread what they did exactly. Maybe if enough failed conversions are posted, we’ll be able to see a few common mistake people might be making.

The rum I used didn't seem to convert the LSA to LSH. I added vit. c(not pure) to lower ph to 4 and added the crushed seeds. I added tea bag of peppermint leaves(kinda old) into the rum later and put it back in the fridge, this time it worked.

Ron how did SWIY get pure liquid lsa? sounds awesome. is it hard to do? just curious.

Hmmmm...it seems that people are getting better results when peppermint leaves are present than with pure Rum. That's quite interesting. I wonder if something else in the peppermint is helping with the reaction?

Look at this quote from another SWIM on another site. It seems to indicate that LSH is only stable in the refrigerator:




A friend helped SWIM do it. It required column chromatography. I don’t have the details on it unfortunately.

Hey y'all,

Ron - thanks for this great little recipe...crushed 5 woodrose seeds with a coffee grinder and used fresh peppermint to make the tea, mixed well and left overnight.

A really, really nice buzz...surprisingly MDMA like, not jittery though, earthy, euphoric, stimulated...some colour enhancement, but visual effects at this dose very subtle...however a very nice feeling, and this is despite me having had little sleep, having slept rough due to unforseen developments late last night...good stuff!

I would imagine this is the problem. There are many diffferent types of peppermint and many of them depending on how they were stored and dried would vary in volatile compounds like acetylaldehyde. If the plant tissue less damaged during storing and drying it would probably lose less.

The best would be to get pure acetylaldehyde and mix in 1:1 molar ratio with LSA and see how it converts. Pure yea pure acetylaldehyde is toxic so one would have to work safely.

Just an experiment (done with pure Acetaldehyde) I grabbed over at a non-named site about advanced drug chemistry:

Method

5.0120g of seeds were mixed with 20ml deionised water and sonicated for 10 minutes. The resulting cloudy water was then filtered off, and the seeds dried. The seeds were then finely ground with 20ml hexane and 500 mg washed silver sand, then the mixture sonicated for 20 minutes, the hexane was removed by filtration and the solids washed with hexane. The filtrate on complete evaporation contained 16.5 mg of off white solids. These were discarded.
The filter cake was then ground with 20ml 80%MeOH : water, for 10 minutes until thoroughly reduced then sonicated for 20 minutes, then filtered, to give a clear yellow filtrate. The filter cake was supsended in 80% MeOH and sonicated for 30 minutes. Then filterered and the cake washed with 20ml 80% MeOH. The combined filtrates and washings were stripped of volatiles at high vacuum 35 degrees C bath temperature, to give 345 mg of a gummy yellow material. This material was then dissolved as much as possible in 100% MeOH and filtered to give a yellow clear solution.
The solution gave a purple color with Dimethylaminobenzaldehyde Hcl and was fluorescent light blue under LW UV.
The filtered MeOH extract was divided into 4 equal portions and placed in vials.
Vial 1- diluted to 50% with MeOH nothing added
Vial 2- diluted to 50% with MeOH nothing added
Vial 3- diluted to 50% with water, 10% V/V neat acetaldehyde added.
Vial 4-diluted to 50% with MeOH 10% V/V neat acetaldehyde added


After standing in the dark at room temp for 2 hrs samples were taken and subjected to HPLC and TLC.
TLC Merck Kieselgel 60 F254 silica. Not dried. Solvent 4:1 Chloroform Methanol Saturated atmosphere
Detection UV absorbtion 254 nm, LW UV fluorescence, Erlichs reagent

attached tlc of vial 2 and vial 4 showing a reaction in pure methanol, it seems that acetaldehyde may invert C8 chmistry of the inine alkaloids???

no reaction occured with acetaldehyde in 50% methanol. or on dilution with water. TLC to come.