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How do you guys deal with nihilistic/dark thoughts? Options
 
axl617
#1 Posted : 1/27/2016 11:56:11 AM

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I figured this would be good place to ask this. My philosophical outlook was strongly shaped by a number of substances over the years. I'm fairly young but I'm at the point where I've been reading some good ol' Camus, Nietzsche and other related material. Not really by choice, but these thoughts forced themselves to me over time, beginning with revelations about how we could all be possibly fragments of one unified consciousness experiencing itself (which raises a lot of questions itself, like what was the motivation for this creation?). The loss of the idea of a omnipotent being having its best intentions for me was quite discomforting, the thoughts about how pointless existence is as a whole even more so.

Nothing seems to be sufficient in really snapping me out of this funk. The more I think about it, the more I begin to see how trivial all of existence is, how repetitive/limited human existence is and how chronically unfulfilled we are by nature. It's like human existence is just a game in escaping this depressing truth by distracting ourselves with the drama of humanity, before dying and recycling this for infinity.

The only 'solution' to this predicament I've found other somehow shutting off consciousness is the Buddhist method of trying to just be 'present', with no attachment to anything but pretending to be a free-floating consciousness which doesn't attach to fear, angst, joy or much of anything. This works for a short time but deep down I know the 'truth' is still burrowed deep in my psyche, just waiting for a bad day or a case of insomnia to pop back out. Is that all that existence can be for me at this point? An exercise in avoidance and feigned ignorance of the nature of reality?
 

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PH0Man
#2 Posted : 1/27/2016 12:22:01 PM

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I often found myself asking the same questions, and being quite depressed by the lack of good answers. I would have probably ended up as part of that ever growing and scarily high number of North Americans who see a massive contradiction between what they're told should make them happy (big house, car, job etc.),and what actually deep down makes people happy. At least that's my theory as to why almost 6% of Americans are on antidepressants without having any actual mental illness.

The idea that saved me from where all that was as follows: there may be no objective point or goal, no God (though I'm coming to think the universe itslef may be conscious and self directing, but that's another discussion), but subjectively, as an individual, you have the power to know yourself perfectly, and therefore to formulate a personal goal for your life (a point) and to live that fully and enjoy it genuinely. Be satified.

We live im a society where this is unfortunately not easy, but know yourself, find your purpose, and spend your life pursuing that. No need to avoid reality! I'd even add that, considering there's no objective goal/point, it's always comforting to know that whatever you chose, you can't be wrong as long as it's from you!
 
3rdI
#3 Posted : 1/27/2016 12:23:36 PM

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i dont think it matters what version of reality you ascribe to because when your dead your dead, even if the materialistic paradigm isnt true, then i imagine the personality you have created will end with your meat bag.

so the only thing left to do is stop worrying/thinking about pointless existential issues and have as much fun and be as nice as possible untill the fatefull day comes when you truely find out what game we are playing here.

cheer up, life is beyond awesome if you make it so.

Quote:
Nothing seems to be sufficient in really snapping me out of this funk. The more I think about it, the more I begin to see how trivial all of existence is, how repetitive/limited human existence is and how chronically unfulfilled we are by nature. It's like human existence is just a game in escaping this depressing truth by distracting ourselves with the drama of humanity, before dying and recycling this for infinity.

remember this is not a factual statement, it is simply your opinion/feelings at the moment.
INHALE, SURVIVE, ADAPT

it's all in your mind, but what's your mind???

fool of the year

 
entheogenic-gnosis
#4 Posted : 1/27/2016 3:52:15 PM
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I did not want to interrupt the ongoing conversation, but felt I may have some insight, I tried not to ramble too much...

I've found that inner thought patterns can be dependant on environment just as much as will.

I find that when I only listen to positive music, only look at positive art, only hold positive conversations, and only entertain positive concepts in thought and meditation, that my baseline conscious-state becomes one of happiness and positivity.

I'm not saying you can ignore the negative, but when you intentionally limit negative influences to its absolute minimum, and take steps not to feed into it, you obtain a degree of liberation from it.

Most suffering is self inflicted, and something as simple as a rearrangement of your thought patterns can change everything...there's a quote connected to Buddhism which says "pain is certain, suffering is optional" whether it's an actual buddhist quote or not it embodies the wisdom of the first noble truth.

When you are angry and think
"I want revenge against this person"
rather than feed into those thoughts and continuing to dig deeper, by thinking things such as
"I could get revenge this way, or hurt this person that way"
Pick up a book with positive advice, such as :

I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Mathew 5:44

Or:

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned -Buddha

...and so on.

If your finding yourself feeling nihilistic, dark, negative, etc..seek out wisdom on the topic just as you would have in the example above regarding anger.

If your dealing with dark and nihilistic thought, I'd say be sure your thoughts are not mimicking surroundings...

It sounds absurd, but positive surroundings and influences and separating yourself from unnecessary negativity influences can be the key to countering negative and hopeless thoughts and feelings.

Spirituality really helps me out, not the "airy-fairy" stuff, but the wisdom in how to keep a loving, peaceful, compassionate, and happy state of mind does wonders, Buddhism and the Tao de ching are great for this, but in recent times I've learned to find wisdom/gnosis in everything.

Be positive, all you need is love, and if possible separate yourself from all negative influences, seek out happy and wise people when you need advice, and trust that you reap what you sow, send out vibrations of love and positivity and that's what will return to you.


Like mckenna says, "it's preposterous to worry, you don't know enough to worry, it's better to function in place, and function well in your place."

-eg




 
pau
#5 Posted : 1/27/2016 6:15:48 PM

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Well, if you're only noticing them, you're already miles ahead of the guy who acts them out. So, congratulations! Thumbs up
WHOA!
 
Koornut
#6 Posted : 1/27/2016 6:44:35 PM

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"This works for a short time but deep down I know the 'truth' is still burrowed deep in my psyche, just waiting for a bad day or a case of insomnia to pop back out."

When I find myself at a dead-end aka the "truth".
I note my influences and follow their inspiration.
Who's philosophy did Nietzsche disagree with?


Inconsistency is in my nature.
The simple PHYLLODE tek

I'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#7 Posted : 1/27/2016 7:24:07 PM
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Sphorange wrote:
"This works for a short time but deep down I know the 'truth' is still burrowed deep in my psyche, just waiting for a bad day or a case of insomnia to pop back out."

When I find myself at a dead-end aka the "truth".
I note my influences and follow their inspiration.
Who's philosophy did Nietzsche disagree with?




Could you elaborate on this "truth"?



Nietzsche disagreed with quite a few people, he did critiques of Kant, he even did critiques of Schopenhauer of whom he was an admirer...it's been way to long since I had interest in Nietzsche so my memory is fuzzy....


-eg
 
pau
#8 Posted : 1/27/2016 9:22:53 PM

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dark thoughts = opportunity to rewire:
pau attached the following image(s):
rewire.jpg (40kb) downloaded 229 time(s).
WHOA!
 
Cazman043
#9 Posted : 1/27/2016 9:28:31 PM

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I'd like to write a log from my journal which you might find inspirational. In the moment of writing it, it wasn't me, but rather, connection to what I perceived as the collective consciousness/Buddha Consciousness.
Here goes:
We are all the buddha consciousness. The wisdom attained by all is like a code sent back to source, to learn and evolve, to become more intelligent and self aware. We the Buddhas have not only tuned into the wisdom of source, but also discovered our own wisdom. We choose to help guide with this wisdom we have attained, through our unconditional loving hearts. Wisdom and compassion are inseparable. Once you realise the Truth all you desire is to share that with others. We are always giving to you. Every experience, thought and feeling we give to you knowing exactly what is needed in every moment, for your own self realisation. We are always here with you, guiding and loving you in every moment. All you need to do is become quiet enough to hear us. So listen to God, recognise all thoughts, sensations, emotions and experiences are messages from God, from the Buddha's, from all the wisdom attained from your ancestors. Your existence is a result of 13 Billion years of Universal evolution. From the Big Bang to Now, you are here, you've always been here, from the dawning of existence. So give with us, for that is where liberation lies. Give away your thoughts, give away your words, give away your emotions, for these are all from God, but cannot be grasped. Resist nothing, for there is no thing to resist, its all you, the illusion is thinking you can control, that you can resist what is, but just give it away and you will see us, for you are god.

I believe a great fundamental point is understanding that from the dawning of existence, you've always been here. You were the Big Bang, and therefore, fundamentally where you are now is just an extension of the process of existence, you will continue to expand and evolve, in this bag of meat, and then, when you pass, you continue the process, you're just energy moving through each moment, all here and now. Its a wonderful thought to think that every single moment, up until this moment, was all you, it all begun with you. You literally took 13 billion years to get exactly where you are, with your current thought processes, experiences, bodyโ€ฆ Everything!!!
So why are we unhappy? Because we take this bag of meat to be so significant, so special, so separate, not recognising that we are every tree, plant, drop of water and bag of meat in this universe, for we're all a process expressed from that one moment where everything went BANG.

My love to your brother, for the moment we begin to question existence and not blatantly follow what we've been told, is the moment we begin to reclaim our consciousness, as painful as it might be, through the dark tunnel is an endless morning. ~~MC~~
 
Koornut
#10 Posted : 1/27/2016 10:09:32 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:


Could you elaborate on this "truth"?

Not particularly. Once upon a time I was certain Machiavelliism was the way to go, then I read more. Now I'm not certain of anything.
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:

Nietzsche disagreed with quite a few people, he did critiques of Kant, he even did critiques of Schopenhauer of whom he was an admirer...it's been way to long since I had interest in Nietzsche so my memory is fuzzy....


-eg

Yeah I've actually never read Nietzsche so I guess my advice is a little redundant Smile
Inconsistency is in my nature.
The simple PHYLLODE tek

I'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
 
5pac3mau5
#11 Posted : 1/27/2016 10:49:05 PM

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My opinions on these thoughts are similar to PH0man, you need to find your own purpose. As Nietzsche said himself:

"You, individual, exist, this ask yourself, and if no one can tell you, then try to justify the meaning of existence a posteriori by setting for yourself some purpose, some goal, some โ€˜thereforeโ€™, a high and noble โ€˜thereforeโ€™. Perish in pursuit of your goal โ€“ I know no higher life-purpose than to perish in the pursuit of something great and impossible."

I'm still figuring things out as many others are. Even if your initial goals are only for a few months or years out, it gives you something to work towards. Yes, it is all part of human drama as you said but that's all we really have right now, you just find your "Nietzsche" in that drama.Wink
"Billy Pilgrim has become unstuck in time."
"So it goes..."
"Poo-tee-weet"


Everything this user posts is to be regarded as a intricate work of fiction.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#12 Posted : 1/27/2016 11:22:40 PM
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Sphorange wrote:
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:


Could you elaborate on this "truth"?

Not particularly. Once upon a time I was certain Machiavelliism was the way to go, then I read more. Now I'm not certain of anything.
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:

Nietzsche disagreed with quite a few people, he did critiques of Kant, he even did critiques of Schopenhauer of whom he was an admirer...it's been way to long since I had interest in Nietzsche so my memory is fuzzy....


-eg

Yeah I've actually never read Nietzsche so I guess my advice is a little redundant Smile



Not being certain of anything sounds to me like an opportunity for radical transformation...

It's hard to articulate...

...but seeing as how no matter how well we think we do, we can never understand what existance actually is in our present state...if you can't understand something you can't fully define it... and if you can't define what something is its rather difficult to decide how to feel about it, no?

promote peace, love, and compassion in your actions and thought, embrace the positive while rejecting as much as the negative as you can, and good things will follow.

It's great to contemplate existance, and to derive as much insight from those contemplations as you can, but there's no use in worry...your skin cells don't contemplate their existance and fret that it's meaningless, they simply exist as a skin cell, they function in place...we don't know enough about what this existance is to a reasonable judgement as to whether it's good or bad, meaningful or pointless and so on...

It's best to just observe and interpret, take it as a lesson, have compassion, stay focused on love and unity, and most importantly be happy...Buddhist philosophy really helps me a good deal, and not so much the spiritual stuff, but the stuff which gives you wisdom on how to live a positive and happy life regardless of any influences or your environment...

I kind of see Buddhism as "enlightened nihilism", it's the most positive form of nihilism in existance...

I hope things improve, the world is actually a beautiful place.

-eg




 
PH0Man
#13 Posted : 1/28/2016 12:11:37 AM

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As Shakespeare said, "Nothing is good nor bad, but thinking makes it so." You chose!!

Also, a recording from a friend pertaining to this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s-TlYLGYrA8
(I'd be grateful in knowing your opinions on this recording)
 
Glossolalia
#14 Posted : 1/28/2016 12:14:47 AM

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axl617 wrote:
Nothing seems to be sufficient in really snapping me out of this funk. The more I think about it, the more I begin to see how trivial all of existence is, how repetitive/limited human existence is and how chronically unfulfilled we are by nature. It's like human existence is just a game in escaping this depressing truth by distracting ourselves with the drama of humanity, before dying and recycling this for infinity.

So you feel helplessly entangled in the world, and feel trapped in your frail human body? My prescription: Less Camus and Nietzsche, more Buddha and Christ.

Seriously, Buddha and Christ. Take your pick. But be warned, there's a difference: one was a carpenter, the other was a prince.
I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes. โ€” Walt Whitman
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#15 Posted : 1/28/2016 11:50:33 AM
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Quote:
Seriously, Buddha and Christ. Take your pick. But be warned, there's a difference: one was a carpenter, the other was a prince.


This is an intriguing statement, yet I feel I may be misinterpreting your intentions, would you care to elaborate?

-eg
 
Glossolalia
#16 Posted : 1/28/2016 12:44:55 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
This is an intriguing statement, yet I feel I may be misinterpreting your intentions, would you care to elaborate?

I was hoping somebody would ask! This statement was told to me by a friend of mine who is a scholar of both Buddha and Christ. Like yourself, I was intrigued but did not get what he was saying.

In fact it's a sort of a joke. What he meant was simply that it's the only difference. Two teachers, one message.
I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes. โ€” Walt Whitman
 
hug46
#17 Posted : 1/28/2016 12:54:01 PM

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I feel that there is something quite comforting and fulfilling about the realisation of the pointlessness of existence.
The possibility that our existence and subsequent sentience is the product of an accident means that we have lucked out in a big way.
I am gonna enjoy it while it lasts. Whether it be drinking cups of tea, taking drugs, reading books by Albert Camus,tearing about on motorbikes, starting a family, doing DIY, being spiritual, being philosophical, arguing about philosophy, listening to music, looking out the window all day, sitting on the toilet etc etc.

The fact that existence maybe pointless means that it really doesn"t matter that it is pointless. And if there is some benevolent overlord/creator/god/awarenes, then great. Either way it"s a win win situation for me.

It is healthy and normal to have existential crises. It is up to the individual to decide how they wish to develop them.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#18 Posted : 1/28/2016 3:13:00 PM
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Glossolalia wrote:
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
This is an intriguing statement, yet I feel I may be misinterpreting your intentions, would you care to elaborate?

I was hoping somebody would ask! This statement was told to me by a friend of mine who is a scholar of both Buddha and Christ. Like yourself, I was intrigued but did not get what he was saying.

In fact it's a sort of a joke. What he meant was simply that it's the only difference. Two teachers, one message.



Thank you! I always find it's best to ask what a person means rather than assume I know what they are trying to say.

I initially thought it was saying something a bit different, and would not have been offended or upset regardless, simply intrigued and wanting to hear a new interpretation of these figures good or bad.

I can see their beginnings as being a key difference, there's a few other minor differences, like Jesus was crucified and Buddha found enlightenment while under the bodhi tree...and that Buddha never claimed divinity, or virgin birth...there's actually some key differences, but as far as their teachings go, they are hard to distinguish (though keep in mind Christ's message was passed on by word and small groups of Christian churches until written 300 years after his death, then Constantine held the First Council of Nicaea where the bible was edited and changed to fit Constantine's New Roman Christianity...so the fact that any of Jesus's message managed to last through all the time and human tinkering is amazing...)

...but I understand what you mean, their teachings are very similar, some even speculate Jesus traveled to India for a short time to learn spirituality, or that he encountered Hindus living in the holy land...

...or maybe it doesn't matter what culture or faith you come from or what religion you choose, because God's message is universally the same, no matter how hard humans try to corrupt it or alter it or exploit it, all faiths may have similarities because they are all based on love, and wisdom on love is bound to be similar even across lands and cultures...

This may be a conversation best suited for another thread though...

Regardless, thank you for clarifying,

And to the initial poster, I hope you find the comfort with existance which you seek, and hope that my insights (as well as the others who responded insights) have done something to aide you through this bleak or rough patch on your journey...


-eg
 
anon_003
#19 Posted : 1/28/2016 5:12:47 PM

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laughter!
Once in a while, you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
 
travsha
#20 Posted : 1/28/2016 7:22:51 PM

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axl617 wrote:
how pointless existence is as a whole even more so.

I dont know if anything is pointless or if anything has a point.... Depends on how you look at it I guess. For me - existing can be a point all on its own. Participating in the endless cycle of life and expression can be its own point.

Even if life doesnt have inherent meaning, you could still give it meaning as well. For me I decided I wanted to be a nice person, enjoy myself and help warm the hearts of those around me - plenty of purpose for me personally. I like smiling at people and seeing that smile change their face and mood into a smile because when they smile it affects them internally too and then they smile at someone else and it starts a chain reaction for a little while....

Personally I think existing and being is an inherent purpose, but even without that you can give life any purpose you want to.

Quote:
The more I think about it, the more I begin to see how trivial all of existence is, how repetitive/limited human existence is and how chronically unfulfilled we are by nature. It's like human existence is just a game in escaping this depressing truth by distracting ourselves with the drama of humanity, before dying and recycling this for infinity.

I am not unfulfilled by nature. I find life very fulfilling. I think you are projecting your own feelings onto others. To me life is incredibly exciting and fun. Sure, there is also lots of work, struggle and challenge, but even that part can be very exciting to me.

I used to feel unfulfilled... So I looked at what I personally needed in my life to feel fulfilled and then I made that happen. Took a while to figure out the practical side of that, but well worth the work. I find the best things in life often require a bit of work, and the only times I ever felt unfulfilled was when I was unwilling to be honest with myself or unwilling to skip the shortcut in order to chase what I really wanted. Too many people do what others tell them to, or what they are "supposed" to do, or what is easier instead of really chasing their dreams. I cant think of anything more exciting then chasing a dream though - and luckily I have enough dreams to chase to last me a life time Big grin

If you think life is repetitive, then I suggest studying history for a bit. Things are constantly changing and evolving. Sure, there is always changing seasons and a cycle of life and death, but there are also new planets, new stars, new galaxies, new species, new races, new cultures, new technologies, new events, new challenges.... Life has an infinite number of ways to express itself.

Escaping drama of human existence? Why escape it? I personally try to make the most of it - I am here, so I might as well enjoy it!

Quote:
The only 'solution' to this predicament I've found other somehow shutting off consciousness is the Buddhist method of trying to just be 'present', with no attachment to anything but pretending to be a free-floating consciousness which doesn't attach to fear, angst, joy or much of anything. This works for a short time but deep down I know the 'truth' is still burrowed deep in my psyche, just waiting for a bad day or a case of insomnia to pop back out. Is that all that existence can be for me at this point? An exercise in avoidance and feigned ignorance of the nature of reality?

If that is your only solution you are not very creative. How about living a life that you are excited about? Try that one yet? It worked for me....

BTW - I think you grossly misunderstand the Buddhist philosophy and practice which is probably why it isnt very helpful for you.
 
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