Chairman of the Celestial Divison
  
Posts: 1393 Joined: 21-Jul-2010 Last visit: 11-Aug-2024 Location: the ancient cluster
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pitubo wrote:Found this interesting in relation to some of the above discussions: Unifying electron transfer mechanism for psilocybin and psilocinKovacic, Peter Medical Hypotheses , Volume 73 , Issue 4 , 626 DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2009.06.022Quote:In 2005, a unifying mechanism for the psychic action and toxicity of abused drugs was proposed based on electron transfer (ET)[1]. Among the principal ET functionalities, one of the main ones is the quinone category which is usually formed as a metabolite. The abused drugs that appear to function by the quinone route include amphetamine, methamphetamine, ecstasy, morphine, heroin, phenobarbital, and aspirin. Recently, mescaline has been added to the list [2].
Psilocybin, present in certain mushrooms, is a hallucinogen belonging to the tryptamine family. It has been banned in most countries. In vivo, psilocybin is converted by dephosphorylation into the phenol psilocin which also exhibits psychedelic (hallucinogenic) properties. Studies have been carried out entailing enzymatic oxidation which provide important evidence concerning the mechanistic mode. The product from psilocin, possessing a deep blue color, is believed to contain an o-quinone structure [3]. A similar result was obtained in a subsequent investigation in which the product was assigned either an o-quinone or iminoquinone structure [4].
Psilocybin yielded a similar result in accord with facile cleavage to psilocin. o-Quinones display quite favorable ET properties. The data fit nicely into the prior unifying framework involving participation of ET entities in the physiological activity [1]. There has been scant attention paid to action mode at the fundamental molecular level.
Pharmacological studies were reported on receptor participation [5]. Psilocin behaves as a partial agonist at the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor in the brain. It is not surprising that the effects are somewhat related to those of serotonin which possesses a closely related structure.
In conclusion, the quinoidal metabolite from enzymatic oxidation of psilocin and its capability to undergo ET which apparently plays a crucial role in drug action, support the earlier mechanistic hypothesis. Attached is a picture from another article by the same author, titled "Novel, unifying mechanism for mescaline in the central nervous system" ( full pdf here) ^ this is really cool. Those are sexy looking quinones, can definitely see where that blue colour comes from now. nice pi system. good flow. Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 396 Joined: 19-May-2013 Last visit: 24-Jul-2018
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So it would be a huge undertaking to (using basic chemistry) convert 4-aco-dmt to 4-ho-dmt while maintaining the kind of chemical stability that would be desired for dosing without significant loss of potency?
.....trying to decide whether to just get rid of the 4-aco-dmt or if something worth the time is salvageable from it...
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Boundary condition
Posts: 8617 Joined: 30-Aug-2008 Last visit: 07-Nov-2024 Location: square root of minus one
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Oh, look! Is it possible to convert 4-AcO-DMT to 4-HO-DMT using commonly available chemicals?Almost exactly 5 years ago! benzyme wrote:I'd take the pH to 11.5 to 12.
“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work." ― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
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dysfunctional word machine
Posts: 1831 Joined: 15-Mar-2014 Last visit: 11-Jun-2018 Location: at the center of my universe
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downwardsfromzero wrote:Almost exactly 5 years ago! benzyme wrote:I'd take the pH to 11.5 to 12. That advice applied to freebasing 4-AcO-DMT fumarate salts. It was not part of a procedure to hydrolyze the acetic ester. The thread makes more or less the same points about practicability and usefulness of it as this one has. But indeed, the OP should better have appended his questions to that thread instead.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 136 Joined: 12-Nov-2010 Last visit: 24-Oct-2019
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I agree that placebo is not something to be underestimated. It's amazing to me how different mimosa feels to Chaliponga (leaves). Honestly I always found chali to be somehow greener and mimosa more darker in character. Theres a good chance though that this was a result of nothing more than the color of the materials used.
Its probably more likely that other factors make what is still essentially a psilocin experience seem less clean or more cluttered as you would hope for with a pure molecule. Kind of like Aya or mimosa compared to pure DMT. You are still getting DMT but its distorted by input from some external influences. Same thing with Cacti when compared to pure mescaline or HBWR when compare to pure LSA etc.
Have you tried creating a much purer psilocybin extract and running that through the old acid/lemon tek? Maybe that would get you closer to what you are looking for.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 396 Joined: 19-May-2013 Last visit: 24-Jul-2018
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wolf8312 wrote:I agree that placebo is not something to be underestimated. It's amazing to me how different mimosa feels to Chaliponga (leaves). Honestly I always found chali to be somehow greener and mimosa more darker in character. Theres a good chance though that this was a result of nothing more than the color of the materials used.
Its probably more likely that other factors make what is still essentially a psilocin experience seem less clean or more cluttered as you would hope for with a pure molecule. Kind of like Aya or mimosa compared to pure DMT. You are still getting DMT but its distorted by input from some external influences. Same thing with Cacti when compared to pure mescaline or HBWR when compare to pure LSA etc.
Have you tried creating a much purer psilocybin extract and running that through the old acid/lemon tek? Maybe that would get you closer to what you are looking for.
It's not a damn placebo. 4-aco-dmt makes my body shake, causes me vasoconstriction, gives me cold sweats, and makes my face red. Psilocin does NONE of those. IT'S NOT A DAMN PLACEBO. I get CONSISTENT NEGATIVE PHYSICAL EFFECTS from 4-aco-dmt Having to repeat this so many times becomes exhausting, honestly.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 396 Joined: 19-May-2013 Last visit: 24-Jul-2018
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wolf8312 wrote:
Its probably more likely that other factors make what is still essentially a psilocin experience seem less clean or more cluttered as you would hope for with a pure molecule. Kind of like Aya or mimosa compared to pure DMT. You are still getting DMT but its distorted by input from some external influences. Same thing with Cacti when compared to pure mescaline or HBWR when compare to pure LSA etc.
No, that makes no sense. That would mean that the 4-aco-dmt would feel cleaner than the whole mushrooms. The opposite is the case......it would be like HBWR feeling more like pure LSA than pure LSA does..... wolf8312 wrote:
Have you tried creating a much purer psilocybin extract and running that through the old acid/lemon tek? Maybe that would get you closer to what you are looking for.
Why would I ever do that, when what I'm looking for in 4-aco-dmt is for it to resemble psilocybin/psilocin in feel? If I had psilocybin in quantity I wouldn't be having this problem in the first place....The reason I'm asking is because it's a lot easier to obtain 4-aco-dmt in quantity without having to cultivate.....I was hoping it would have been identical to the feel of psilocybin/psilocin, but it was as different in feel from them as Mescaline or LSD are (in feel, not duration).....clearly not placebo. It felt almost like a Phenethylamine PLUS a massive amount of body load (aka actual PAIN and I couldn't feel my hands, and I developed HEAVY fever-like symptoms) I have NEVER felt from psilocin/psilocybin, and I am not the first to have noticed this about 4-aco-dmt. That is why I seek a conversion method.
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