Roland Griffiths is the lead investigator of the Psilocybin Research Initiative at Johns Hopkins and one of the United States’ leading psychopharmacologists. In this episode Roland describes his research into the medicinal uses of psychedelics. He explains his history in the field, his current research around psychedelics and meditation, and he extends an invitation to the Buddhist Geeks audience to consider becoming a part of a meditation on psilocybin study at John Hopkins.

Part 1

http://www.buddhistgeeks...meditating-on-mushrooms/

Part 2

http://www.buddhistgeeks...rash-course-mindfulness/

WARNING: RANT AHEAD.

I have a deep respect for the work Dr. Griffiths is doing, and the stuff his lab has been working on are really earth-shattering, but in some ways, I feel like the perspective he brings to this project is unfortunately limited. It's obvious that meditation and meditative-traditions are deeply important to him, but I feel like there are other traditions, and other epistemological methods that can be useful when thinking about psychedelics that aren't given enough credit.

He said that he didn't think there was any contemplative tradition currently using psychedelics, and that technically may be true, depending on how you define 'contemplative,' but it completely glosses over the fact that there are indigenous cultures in the Global South who have been using these things for thousands years and continue into the present day. Before Leary and co got hold of it, Psilocybin was a sacrament for people in Mexico as recently as the early 20th century, at least before hippies got wind of the 'magic mushrooms' and descended on the poor people who were keeping the tradition alive.

The Buddhist perspective is a really interesting one, and there are undoubtedly psychological and neurological convergences between the psychedelic experience and those of deeply meditative one, but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Instead of trying to force a tradition that has no significant history with these things to accommodate them, let's talk to people who have been incorporating these drugs since before recorded history. Surely they must have at least *some* interesting insights.

Unfortunately though, indigenous people, the ones who actually grew up in these cultures, still remain woefully underrepresented in all these different psychedelic forums: rarely do I see them represented in any significant way at conferences, and they don't seem to be a presence on any of the online psychedelic forums (including here on The Nexus).

I feel like indigenous/tribal cultures continue to get a really raw deal - either they're being swept under the rug and forgotten by modernists who want to charge ahead into the brave new world, or their traditions and teachers are being appropriated and bastardized by white guys with dreadlocks who seem to think that taking a bunch of drugs makes them a shaman (see: Plastic Shaman).

The intersection of meditation and psychedelics is absolutely fascinating, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't jump at the opportunity to work in the Griffiths Lab, and I'm so excited for their publications it's almost embarrassing, but let's not forget that psychedelics did not magically come into being in the 1940s. This history of use by non-Western groups is more valuable than just giving modern day enthusiasts and excuse to say "psychedelics have been used for thousands of years," when trying to sell the idea.

Blessings
~ND

The way shamans use psychedelics is different than how a mystic tradinale has used or use psychedelics. Sufis still use Rue and recenly Acacia/Rue combo in the middle east in very different ways than how American shamans have used peyote/SP, Psilo and Aya.

I think they mention this a bit in the second part of the interview when they talk about internal "high dose" work and more group oriented "lower dose" stuff. The difference between more individual mystical or contemplative experience vs more therapeutic shamanic or communal experiences. Obviously all generalizations.

Any idea what Griffiths considered a high dose??

30mg/70kg, psilocybin/body mass.

I'd love to see discussions of how the Sufis, Amazonians, Mexicans, Bwiti people, and anyone else who uses entheogens incorporates them into their practices. I don't see why we need to be forcing Buddhism, which again, has no real history of entheogen use, to accommodate these drugs when there are plenty of other interesting frameworks.

Blessings
~ND

Sufis would probably be closer to Buddhists, Taoist or other more "traditional" Indo-Asian-European forms of mysticism relating to Abrahamic faiths.

There's very little evidence that ancient Buddhists used psychedelics but plenty of evidence for their use in India and Hinduism in general.

I personally tend to lean towards buddhist views of mind but there's something beneficial about the shamanic/therapeutic view of psycedelic medicine.

I have listened to part 2 so far (because I don't understand exactly how to make podcasts replicate to my phone at this point for dashboard time listening) and I think this is an interesting study. My take was that they are very specific in their audience and background because they are trying to correlate meditation and psilocybin effects, and the Buddhist perspectives they are familiar with can be more easily studied because simply its familiar territory and I assume there are more candidates who can participate and relate their experiences back, not because they are trying to draw a historic correlation.

Interesting frameworks are good for discussion, but the practical application to scientific studies would be a little difficult to pull off.

Regardless, a new podcast for me to follow, definitely enjoy the perspective they're bringing!

I have great respect for the work Roland Griffiths and his team at Johns Hopkins are doing, I also met and him and had a few chats with him at Breaking Convention in London last summer and he seems like a great chap. I know Roland has had some ineffable experiences of consciousness through his practice of Siddha yoga, so he doesn't have a personal leaning towards mindfulness per se and he is certainly open to other forms of practice.

Personally I think linking mindfulness meditation and psilocybin is a really great thing to start with when it comes to this kind of research. Both seem to share a fair bit of overlap from research conducted thus far, particularly in how they turn down the default mode network of the brain, with both seeming to have anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects. Both also seem to have the potential to affect neuroplasticity of the brain. There is a great deal of evidence to support the benefits of mindfulness and this is very much an expanding research frontier, and the same applies to research on psilocybin. It is also likely mindfulness and meditation are directly complimentary, a recent study on ayahuasca found that it increased measures of mindfulness (as usually applied to meditation), and I think it highly likely this will apply to psilocybin as well.

Another great thing about mindfulness is that it can be utilised in a purely secular way, completely divorced of any religious or spiritual practice, which is a big plus when it comes to studying it scientifically, and means the benefits of mindfulness are open and accessible to all, no matter what one's views.