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analysis of the dose Mr. Ludlow had consumed in his 1857 book "the hasish eater" Options
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#1 Posted : 12/31/2015 4:33:43 PM
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From "the hasheesh eater" by Fitz Hugh Ludlow:

I looked toward the shelves in the direction of which he pointed, and saw, added since my last visit, a row of comely pasteboard cylinders inclosing vials of the various extracts prepared by Tilden & Co. Arranged in order according to their size, they confronted me, as pretty a little rank of medicinal sharp-shooters as could gratify the eye of an amateur. I approached the shelves, that I might take them in review.

A rapid glance showed most of them to be old acquaintances." Conium, taraxacum, rhubarb -- ha! what is this? Cannabis Indica?" "That," answered the doctor, looking with a parental fondness upon his new treasure, "is a preparation of the East Indian hemp, a powerful agent in cases of lock- jaw." On the strength of this introduction, I took down the little archer, and, removing his outer verdant coat, began the further prosecution of his acquaintance. To pull out a broad and shallow cork was the work of an instant, and it revealed to me an olive-brown extract, of the consistency of pitch, and a decided aromatic odor. Drawing out a small portion upon the point of my penknife, I was just going to put it to my tongue, when "Hold on!" cried the doctor; "do you want to kill yourself? That stuff is deadly poison." "Indeed!" I replied; "no, I can not say that I have any settled determination of that kind;" and with that I replaced the cork, and restored the extract, with all its appurtenances, to the shelf.

The remainder of my morning's visit in the sanctum was spent in consulting the Dispensatory under the title "Cannabis Indica." The sum of my discoveries there may be found, with much additional information, in that invaluable popular work, Johnston's Chemistry of Common Life. This being universally accessible, I will allude no further to the result of that morning's researches than to mention the three following conclusions to which I came.

First, the doctor was both right and wrong; right, inasmuch as a sufficiently large dose of the drug, if it could be retained in the stomach, would produce death, like any other narcotic, and the ultimate effect of its habitual use had always proved highly injurious to mind and body; wrong, since moderate doses of it were never immediately deadly, and many millions of people daily employed it as an indulgence similarly to opium. Second, it was the hasheesh referred to by Eastern travelers, and the subject of a most graphic chapter from the pen of Bayard Taylor, which months before had moved me powerfully to curiosity and admiration. Third, I would add it to the list of my former experiments.

In pursuance of this last determination, I waited till my friend was out of sight, that I might not terrify him by that which he considered a suicidal venture, and then quietly uncapping my little archer a second time, removed from his store of offensive armor a pill sufficient to balance the ten grain weight of the sanctorial scales. This, upon the authority of Pereira and the Dispensatory, I swallowed without a tremor as to the danger of the result.

Making all due allowance for the fact that I had not taken my hasheesh bolus fasting, I ought to experience its effects with the next four hours. That time elapsed without bringing the shadow of a phenomenon. It was plain that my dose had been insufficient.

For the sake of observing the most conservative prudence, I suffered several days to go by without a repetition of the experiment, and then, keeping the matter equally secret, I administered to myself a pill of fifteen grains. This second was equally ineffectual with the first.

Gradually, by five grains at a time, I increased the dose to thirty grains, which I took one evening half an hour after tea. I had now almost come to the conclusion that I was absolutely unsusceptible of the hasheesh influence. Without any expectation that this last experiment would be more successful than the former ones, and indeed with no realization of the manner in which the drug affected those who did make the experiment successfully, I went to pass the evening at the house of an intimate friend. In music and conversation the time passed pleasantly. The clock struck ten, reminding me that three hours had elapsed since the dose was taken, and as yet not an unusual symptom had appeared. I was provoked to think that this trial was as fruitless as its predecessors.

Ha! what means this sudden thrill? A shock, as of some unimagined vital force, shoots without warning through my entire frame, leaping to my fingers' ends, piercing my brain, startling me till I almost spring from my chair.

I could not doubt it. I was in the power of the hasheesh influence. My first emotion was one of uncontrollable terror -- a sense of getting something which I had not bargained for. That moment I would have given all I had or hoped to have to be as I was three hours before

-From "The Hasheesh Eater" by Fitz Hugh Ludlow



http://www.google.com/ur...sS8wrigK-t-z4zGL0WLy_9vA

Terence mckenna reading "the hasheesh eater" by fitz hugh ludlow



1 Gram = 15.4323584 Grains

1 Grain = 0.06479891 Gram (or 64.79891 milligrams)

Grain is a unit of mass and based upon the average mass of a single seed of a cereal, wheat, barley, etc. 1 pound equals to 7000 grains. It is also used to measure the hardness of water and the mass of gunpowder. The abbreviation is "gr".




Ludlow's first attempt: 10 grains which equals: 647.9891 milligrams

After "several days" Ludlow made his second attempt: at 15 grains which equals 971.98365 milligrams (nearly 1 gram)


Third attempt: (though he fails to mention how much time had elapsed between his 2nd and 3rd attempts) gradually he increases to 30 grains which equals 1943.9673 milligrams (nearly two grams)

Then he proceeds to describe an experience equal in intensity to psilocybin or LSD, an honest report of genuine psychedelia produced by hashish.

(He also reports behavior which would not become well known until the 1960s, he describes behavior which every marijuana user should be familiar with, but which in 1857 must have been quite novel indeed, part of why I've always loved this story so much is because of the relateability of his report, I can relate to almost every aspect of his account, which is not only extremely accurate, as well as linguistically rich, it is an entertaining and colorful read, I often must be reading in a place where I can laugh aloud from time to time, a great cannabis experience report, the 1857 date makes it all the more novel and enjoyable.



Does anybody know what method of preparation was used to produce the "hashish jelly" which Ludlow consumed?

I would very much like to consume an equal amount of the same preparation in an attempt to recreate effects similar to Mr. Ludlow's report. (Though due to tolerance from daily use I may need to double the dose, and even then it may not generate these effects...when I was young I had experiences on cannabis of an intensity which has never been reproduced since, so cannabis may only effect an individual in this way during their first stages of use, and over time using it, the cannabis loses its ability to effect an individual in such way...
Then again, Mr. Ludlow ate about 700mgs, then a few days later ate about 1 gram, then later ate about two grams, very high doses assuming the "hasish jelly" was of a high THC percentage.

-eg

 

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dreamer042
#2 Posted : 12/31/2015 5:18:08 PM

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Quote:
To pull out a broad and shallow cork was the work of an instant, and it revealed to me an olive-brown extract, of the consistency of pitch, and a decided aromatic odor.

This makes it sound very much like a honey oil or wax/shatter/dab. I suspect nomming 2 grams of dab will be sufficiently psychoactive to repeat the experience presented here.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
null24
#3 Posted : 12/31/2015 6:07:29 PM

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dreamer042 wrote:
Quote:
To pull out a broad and shallow cork was the work of an instant, and it revealed to me an olive-brown extract, of the consistency of pitch, and a decided aromatic odor.

This makes it sound very much like a honey oil or wax/shatter/dab. I suspect nomming 2 grams of dab will be sufficiently psychoactive to repeat the experience presented here.


Sure does and the preperation of such an extract could have been easily performed then.

A 2 gram dose of oral hash would put me in a psychedelic state definitely.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#4 Posted : 1/2/2016 2:15:59 PM
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dreamer042 wrote:
Quote:
To pull out a broad and shallow cork was the work of an instant, and it revealed to me an olive-brown extract, of the consistency of pitch, and a decided aromatic odor.

This makes it sound very much like a honey oil or wax/shatter/dab. I suspect nomming 2 grams of dab will be sufficiently psychoactive to repeat the experience presented here.


Ok, so let's say I buy two grams of shatter or wax, would I be able to just eat it?

Would I need to decarboxylate (activate) the hash using temperature (the oven)?

Can you really just eat raw extract?

If so, a quick (but expensive) trip to my local marijuana dispensary is in order, as I have been meaning to recreate this experiment since I first read ludlows book when I was young...

...I have just never been sure how this "hashish jelly" was prepared, or if just eating hash from the marijuana store would work...it would be an expensive waste if it didn't...

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#5 Posted : 1/2/2016 2:44:21 PM
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حشيش

In 1596, Dutchman Jan Huyghen van Linschoten spent three pages on "Bangue" (bhang) in his historic work documenting his journeys in the East. He particularly mentioned the Egyptian Hashish.[7] He said, "Bangue is likewise much used in Turkie and Egypt, and is made in three sorts, having also three names. The first by the Egyptians is called Assis (Hashish (Arab.)), which is the poulder of Hemp, or of Hemp leaves, which is water made in paste or dough, they would eat five peeces, (each) as big as a Chestnut (or larger); This is used by the common people, because it is of a small price, and it is no wonder, that such vertue proceedeth from the Hempe, for that according to Galens opinion, Hempe excessively filleth the head."-Wikipedia

According to this in the 1500's in the mid-the yeast and India they were eating keif, or a preparation of hash made from the collected trichomes of the plant...

I'm having trouble finding anything but the obvious natural preperations of hashish known from the 1850s...

Here's some information regarding what science knew in 1896:


he 19th century a group inCambridge (Wood et al., 1896) effected a consid-erable purification of the components of Cannabis by fractional distillation of an ethereal extractfrom charas. They obtained a terpene and a high-boiling, viscous oil. The viscous oil (‘amber colored when seen in thin layers but ruby red whenseen in mass’) was assumed to be a single sub-stance. The fractions isolated by the Cambridge group were tested by Marshall (1897, 1898 ). Inthe Wood et al. (1896) article he is quoted asfollows.The red oil, is extremely active, and taken indoses of 0.05 g induces decided intoxication fol-lowed by sleep. The symptoms produced by it arepeculiar to Cannabis indica, and as none of theother products appear to possess this action, thissubstance must be regarded as the active con-stituent of the plant.Later Dunstan and Henry (1898 ), Wood (1899)found that the oil was not homogenous and iso-lated from it, after acetylation, a crystalline ace-tate which could be hydrolyzed to a resinous phenol that analyzed for C21H28O2, To this com-ponent they gave the name cannabinol. Its lack of optical rotation (in contrast to the negative valuesof the other major natural cannabinoids knowntoday) and the crystalline cannabinol acetate ob-tained from cannabinol emphasize its purity.Thus, cannabinol represents the first natural can-nabinoid to be obtained in pure form.Pure cannabinol apparently was not tested atthat time for its biological activity. Hence, on thebasis of work on the crude extract (Marshall,1898; Fraenkel, 1903) it was wrongly assumedthat this component was the active principle of Cannabis The crystalization of cannabinol acetate fromthe red oil indicates that cannabinol was presentin it in relatively high concentrations. Wood mayhad worked with old, deteriorated samples of hashish in which much of the active constituenttetrahydrocannabinol (THC) had oxidized to can-nabinol (see below). We know today that can-nabinol is a relatively minor constituent in fresh Cannabis , hashish, or charas and may in fact bean artifact. All the major cannabinoids boil in thesame temperature range, and their separation isimpossible by distillation. Indeed for many yearsnumerous groups unsuccessfully tried to repeatand expand Wood’s findings, hence the work of the Cambridge group was largely ignored

http://www.scribd.com/mo...Research-on-Cannabinoids

And I found this very informative and interesting piece of information regarding cannabis extract and medicine in the late 1800s:

Between 1850 and 1937, marijuana was quite widely used in American medical practice for a wide range of conditions. The United States Pharmacopeia, which through the generations has maintained a highly selective listing of the country's most widely accepted drugs, admitted marijuana as a recognized medicine in 1850 under the name Extractum Cannabis or Extract of Hemp, 17 and listed it until 1942. 18 The National Formulary and United States Dispensatory, less selective, also included monographs on marijuana and cited recommendations for its use for numerous illnesses. In 1851 the United States Dispensatory reported:

Extract of hemp is a powerful narcotic [here meaning sleep-producing drug], causing exhilaration, intoxication, delirious hallucinations, and, in its subsequent action, drowsiness and stupor, with little effect upon the circulation. It is asserted also to act as a decided aphrodisiac, to increase the appetite, and occasionally to induce the cataleptic state. In morbid states of the system, it has been found to cause sleep, to allay spasm, to compose nervous disquietude, and to relieve pain. In these respects it resembles opium; but it differs from that narcotic in not diminishing the appetite, checking the secretions, or constipating the bowels. It is much less certain in its effects, but may sometimes be preferably employed, when opium is contraindicated by its nauseating or constipating effects, or its disposition to produce headache, and to check the bronchial secretion. The complaints in which it has been specially recommended are neuralgia, gout, rheumatism, tetanus, hydrophobia, epidemic cholera, convulsions, chorea, hysteria, mental depression, delirium tremens, insanity, and uterine hemorrhage. 19

Many eminent British and American physicians recommended marijuana as an effective therapeutic agent. Dr. J. Russell Reynolds, Fellow of the Royal Society and Physician in Ordinary to Her Majesty's (Queen Victoria's) Household, reported in Lancet in 1890, for example, that he had been prescribing cannabis for thirty years and that he considered it "one of the most valuable medicines we possess" 20 Sir William Osler, professor of medicine at the Johns Hopkins and later Regius Professor of Medicine at the University of Oxford, stated in his 1898 discussion of migraine headaches that marijuana "is probably the most satisfactory remedy" for that distressing condition. * 28



* Others who recommended marijuana for migraine headaches included the Committee on Cannabis Indica of the Ohio State Medical Society (1860); 21 Dr. G. S. D. Anderson in the Boston Medical and Surgical Journal (now the New England Journal of Medicine) (1863); 22 Dr. Edward John Waring in his textbook, Practical Therapeutics (1874); 23 Dr. C. W. Suckling in the British Medical Journal (1881); 24 Dr. J. B. Mattison in the St. Louis Medical and Surgical Journal (1891); 25 and Dr. A. A. Stevens in his textbook, Modern Materia Medica (1903). 26 (We are indebted to Dr. Tod H. Mikuriya 27 for a number of these and other historical references to the medical history of marijuana.)



To meet the substantial nineteenth- and early twentieth-century medical demand for marijuana, fluid extracts were marketed by Parke Davis, Squibb, Lilly, Burroughs Wellcome, and other leading firms 29 and were sold over the counter by drugstores at modest prices. Grimault and Sons actually marketed ready-made marijuana cigarettes for use as an asthma remedy. 30 As medicine progressed after 1903, marijuana's use declined, but its therapeutic value remained unchallenged, and doctors continued to prescribe it.
http://www.druglibrary.o...ary/studies/cu/cu54.html



Very fun research and great historical data, though I'm still uncertain of how "tindell and co." Would have prepared their "cannabis indica jelly" which was distributed to the medical community, simple keif of pressed water hash? Alcohol extract? Could they really have known of hexane, toluene, ethyl acetate, petroleum ether, naptha, etc...extraction methods in 1856? I mean sure they had plenty of organic solvents, but did they know that these were appropriate for THC extraction?
 
dreamer042
#6 Posted : 1/2/2016 5:13:00 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
dreamer042 wrote:
Quote:
To pull out a broad and shallow cork was the work of an instant, and it revealed to me an olive-brown extract, of the consistency of pitch, and a decided aromatic odor.

This makes it sound very much like a honey oil or wax/shatter/dab. I suspect nomming 2 grams of dab will be sufficiently psychoactive to repeat the experience presented here.


Ok, so let's say I buy two grams of shatter or wax, would I be able to just eat it?

Would I need to decarboxylate (activate) the hash using temperature (the oven)?

Can you really just eat raw extract?

If so, a quick (but expensive) trip to my local marijuana dispensary is in order, as I have been meaning to recreate this experiment since I first read ludlows book when I was young...

...I have just never been sure how this "hashish jelly" was prepared, or if just eating hash from the marijuana store would work...it would be an expensive waste if it didn't...

-eg

In general, for proper psychoactive effects from oral administration, yes you will need to decarboxylate the oil/hash. Most dispensaries these days carry decarboxylated cannnabis oils as phoenix tears or Rick Simpson Oil (technically the original RSO is a naphtha extraction, but over the last few years it's come to be a generic term for any decarboxylated cannabis oil for oral dosing).

Honestly for oral dosing, the best bet is probably to get some oil/wax/dab/shatter and melt it into a minimal amount of butter or coconut oil over a double boiler. The fats increase the absorption rate several fold, and the double boiling process accomplishes the decarboxylation. Melting hashish (charas) into butter/milk and using that as a base for a tea is the basic preparation method for bhang.

I suspect they probably were not able to obtain the level of purity available today with the likes of co2 and butane/propane, however the original report does sound very much like a honey oil. It may be wise to start with a smaller dose than the full two grams to account for purity differences.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#7 Posted : 1/4/2016 11:54:22 AM
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dreamer042 wrote:
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
dreamer042 wrote:
Quote:
To pull out a broad and shallow cork was the work of an instant, and it revealed to me an olive-brown extract, of the consistency of pitch, and a decided aromatic odor.

This makes it sound very much like a honey oil or wax/shatter/dab. I suspect nomming 2 grams of dab will be sufficiently psychoactive to repeat the experience presented here.


Ok, so let's say I buy two grams of shatter or wax, would I be able to just eat it?

Would I need to decarboxylate (activate) the hash using temperature (the oven)?

Can you really just eat raw extract?

If so, a quick (but expensive) trip to my local marijuana dispensary is in order, as I have been meaning to recreate this experiment since I first read ludlows book when I was young...

...I have just never been sure how this "hashish jelly" was prepared, or if just eating hash from the marijuana store would work...it would be an expensive waste if it didn't...

-eg

In general, for proper psychoactive effects from oral administration, yes you will need to decarboxylate the oil/hash. Most dispensaries these days carry decarboxylated cannnabis oils as phoenix tears or Rick Simpson Oil (technically the original RSO is a naphtha extraction, but over the last few years it's come to be a generic term for any decarboxylated cannabis oil for oral dosing).

Honestly for oral dosing, the best bet is probably to get some oil/wax/dab/shatter and melt it into a minimal amount of butter or coconut oil over a double boiler. The fats increase the absorption rate several fold, and the double boiling process accomplishes the decarboxylation. Melting hashish (charas) into butter/milk and using that as a base for a tea is the basic preparation method for bhang.

I suspect they probably were not able to obtain the level of purity available today with the likes of co2 and butane/propane, however the original report does sound very much like a honey oil. It may be wise to start with a smaller dose than the full two grams to account for purity differences.


Thank you, great post, very helpful.

Yes, I figured decarboxylation was necessary...

...one time a store I used to frequent would hand out hash samples in "00" gel-caps, just as containers, I was there when a few people who had ate the caps instead of emptying them into a pipe returned to the store saying "why did this not work"...

I used to throw all my sweet-leaf trim in a crock-pot with a few sticks of non-salted butter and leave it there many hours, then I would filter it and cool it in the fridge for cooking...

...Though traditional edibles have always failed me, I can consume edible after edible from the store and get little more than a regular buzz, I thought the stores products were weak, so I made my own, same result, it never gets me any more high than smoking would.

I'll check my store for activated hash for eating, I also think I'm going to find some technical workups on edible hash preparation.

I think I'm going to eat three activated grams of butane, propane or CO2 extract, like mckenna says about cannabis "if your not saying "I think I did too much" than your not doing it properly". This is the type of experience I'm looking for...

I smoke a gram of shatter every few days as well as a large amount of flower on a daily basis, so I figured I would either need to stop smoking for a few weeks, than try the experiment, or I would need to dose high.

Ludlow achieved psychedelia, but like any good psychedelic experience he was terrified for a good deal of the time, first it hits him at his friends house, and he is freaking out, very paranoid, he thinks they all know he is stoned and wants to leave, eventually he makes it to the street to walk home and has an incident with a homeless man (did he really see the "elf-locked elderly man" who tried to make him carry his bags, or was this in his head?) he even wakes up his doctor in the middle of the night for fear he would suffer a Brain Aneurysm‎, the doctor assured him he was fine and gave him some sedative to take later...Ludlow also describes some beautiful and amazing psychedelia, specially while in his doctors house and while in his bed before he leaves to see his doctor...

It's been many years (since I first began smoking actually) since I have felt fear from cannabis, but that's the intensity I'm looking for, I'm hoping eating large amounts of active hash (possibly after a month of cannabis fasting) will provide a Ludlow-esk cannabis ordeal.

Thank you again for the response, very helpful.

-eg
 
anne halonium
#8 Posted : 1/4/2016 7:02:46 PM

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we ate the stuff wholesale when we were in tangiers.
you can only smoke so much.

we would OPEN with 2-3 g's
ive eaten up to 1/4 oz straight off the bar.
i can attest you trip like a maniac.

ive read that ludlow stuff before.
interesting, but among hash eaters, its sorta timid.
that said,
be warned , above 2 g's its a serious , serious trip.

as for preparation,
my experience is if ya eat a tangible amount,
it doesnt make alot of difference HOw you eat it.
"loph girl incarnate / lab rabbits included"
kids dont try anything annie does at home ,
for for scientific / educational review only.
 
Sandgrease
#9 Posted : 1/5/2016 12:48:51 AM
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You guy take the extract and place it in a glass container with ethanol, heat it on the stove and stir the extract into the alcohol and drink it.

A gram of co2 extracted hash oil would probably get you tripping
 
Sandgrease
#10 Posted : 1/5/2016 12:54:11 AM
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Cannabinoid trips are prone to paranoia and panic attacks moreso than anything else I've ever tried.

I still have little grasp on how THC or in the case of edibles 11HO-THC can make you trip so hard.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#11 Posted : 1/5/2016 2:33:12 PM
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anne halonium wrote:
we ate the stuff wholesale when we were in tangiers.
you can only smoke so much.

we would OPEN with 2-3 g's
ive eaten up to 1/4 oz straight off the bar.
i can attest you trip like a maniac.

ive read that ludlow stuff before.
interesting, but among hash eaters, its sorta timid.
that said,
be warned , above 2 g's its a serious , serious trip.

as for preparation,
my experience is if ya eat a tangible amount,
it doesnt make alot of difference HOw you eat it.


Perfect! Thank you, I really needed anecdotal evidence from a person who has experience in hash eating.

If you could recommend any early hash literature, I would love to investigate it, Ludlow is about as far as I have made it in this area.

I'm thinking I should do some more research, but this hash eating venture is definantly in the works...

Thanks again,

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#12 Posted : 1/5/2016 2:46:34 PM
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Sandgrease wrote:
Cannabinoid trips are prone to paranoia and panic attacks moreso than anything else I've ever tried.

I still have little grasp on how THC or in the case of edibles 11HO-THC can make you trip so hard.



I know this is going to sound strange, but I'm actually seeking these seemingly dysphoric effects from cannabis...

I'm not hedonistic in these endeavors, and do not see an experience as a "bummer" just because it was not entirely pleasent...often the best learning occurs when real fear is involved...the euphoric experiences seem to be transient, and have little impact...

Don't get me wrong, I use cannabis every day to maintain a calm, happy, healthy, and holy mindstate, it brings love and peace into the mind and soul, it brings a piece of the sacred into your every day life, and keeps your interaction with sacred plants daily, I use it responsibly as a sacrament, and I'm not advocating irresponsible cannabis use, but as a practicing entheogenic spiritualist, I want to use cannabis as a plant teacher in a way similar to the mushroom or yagé...and since I know this is possible, I feel obligated to explore it...

(I have had INTENSE cannabis ventures, but not since I had first began smoking as a youth, now that I'm further educated in entheogens I feel I would better be able to grasp the implications of and derive gnosis from the experience. )

-eg





 
anne halonium
#13 Posted : 1/5/2016 8:33:13 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:

Perfect! Thank you, I really needed anecdotal evidence from a person who has experience in hash eating.


some things to consider.
IMO , its a friendlier buzz than smoking in some ways.
you may fall asleep.
its possible to fall asleep, sleep a few hours, then wake up still tripping.

although it can be eaten raw,
oils like butter give it a punch.
mixing it with hamburger is extra powerful for some reason.

im always sorta surprised people dont eat it more.

anyone who is a heavy pot smoker of good pot,
should be able to handle the 2 g buzz or better.
i would NOT feed it to casual pot smokers, or novices.
the power is there, the kids would certainly be afraid.

oh and give it a solid hour for the power.
dont eat 2-3 g and then 30 minits later eat more cuz it seems weak.
its possible to be in a colorful buzz semi coma for a day or so if over done.

i had read the ludlow stuff yrs before i was in tangiers.
my POV on that went out the window when they started stacking bricks on the table.
respect it , but dont be afraid of it, and youll realize ludlow was cool,
yet , is actually rather timid on the potential.

for those without hash, eating pot above 5-7 gs works well also.
you can also eat dabs.

as mentioned for prep,
if your a cooking type , recipes abound for cannabis. most work
if your a no cook , like me , grind up and melt with butter.
eating raw hash is fine, but takes some getting used to in multi grammage.
vodka shots are good for raw forms, as it gets it rolling faster.


so much for "off topic"...............



"loph girl incarnate / lab rabbits included"
kids dont try anything annie does at home ,
for for scientific / educational review only.
 
Psybin
#14 Posted : 1/5/2016 11:43:57 PM

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Anne, you mention eating hash and give a dose of 2g - what might this be if one were eating dabs rather than hash? I know most hash is in the 30% - 50% THC range, so if wax I'm getting is often, say, 85% THC - would I use .5g to 1g? That seems like an awful lot
 
anne halonium
#15 Posted : 1/6/2016 1:26:58 AM

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a general rule with me is 4 x what i would smoke.
mileage varies.
id go thru smoking a 1/4 gram of dabs just psionically thinking about the wrapper.

for dabs start with like a third of a g.

i use 2 gs hash as a sane baseline for most people experienced with cannabis.
2 gs will be memorable but not over shocking.

dabs vary with spectra, and the way made.
so ya could do with less.
im not sure id open up with 2 grams of high quality dabs.
but, if i ate 2 g i wouldnt be too worried, just grateful dead trashed.

we drink dabs in vodka , at a rate of 6 g per litre.
we kill about 1/3 bottle at a sitting, between 2-3 people
its dramtic, but not insane.
those bottles demand respect though.
be prepared for a dramatic blood sugar drop and super munchies

this is kinda a tricky subject.
on one hand cannabis forms vary.
on another hand , its powerful eaten.
fortunately it pretty non toxic.
and although the buzz is powerful, it is generally relaxing and friendly.

the real factor here is experience.
if your a rasta, strap on the feed bag.
if your a kid or a rare pot smoking casual,
then nibble and show caution.

"loph girl incarnate / lab rabbits included"
kids dont try anything annie does at home ,
for for scientific / educational review only.
 
Psybin
#16 Posted : 1/6/2016 1:48:08 AM

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Thanks Anne! It's always good to hear from someone who's been in it as long as you have. Thumbs up I just copped a large slab of very high quality medical grade wax that was blasted locally and I think I'll be eating some in the near future - most likely 250mg to begin with, as I still have cold feet about going into the deep end of anything psychoactive after my last few breakthroughs with DMT. Now the question simply becomes how to prepare the dose and how to consume it. I'm personally leaning towards a chocolate bar or chocolate chip cookies, because I find cocoa really synergizes with cannabis for me - the combination tends to put me in a stimulated trance, the same one I get from making music at just the right tempo with a hot beat. It's like my train of thought becomes erratic then essentially vanishes and I'm just stimulated and alive in the present moment, not focused on anything but at the same time I'm focused on the beat of the music and every detail of what I'm hearing, seeing, feeling, smelling, etc. down to every last Hz, every last "pixel" of vision, and so on.

However, I also remember my first time smoking pot and getting effects, and man did I get them! I would turn my head and it would take the world a few seconds to catch up, albeit in shutter frames, like a really slow strobe light. Everything was warping and waving and it was awesome. I'd love to go back to that place, but maybe in a more controlled way. I think it'd help me get over my anxiety regarding entheogens since my last breakthroughs/hyperslaps, as well as be an exercise in self control as well as letting go, which I struggle to do on DMT. So we'll see, I'll probably give it a shot before Valentine's Day. Shocked
 
steppa
#17 Posted : 1/6/2016 2:31:06 PM

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Once there were some BHO-Pills. There were 180mg of BHO in each capsule (which I found to be a nice dose...not too heavy, but not too light either). I gave two to a friend. She ate them both. She was floored for about 36 hours. Also had to puke after a while.

Personal experience from when I was 16/17 or so:

We made 12 Pizza-Muffins (Bad tasting choice) with 18g not too good hash in them. I ate four of them...so about 6 gramm (not too good) hash. After it kicked in, it was fun for one or two hours but as things got more and more intense the more I wanted it to stop...leading to a not so great time for the next few hours. Today I would be able to handle this a lot better.

Last year we tried a more or less heavy Bhang reciepe which called for 14g Weed. We shared it between three people. That was heavy. First we were playing Yahtzee...after a while we stopped, cause we couldn't any more. Our movements and conversations became slower...and then stopped for a whole while with everybody just lying arround. Was a good day. Razz



Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
anne halonium
#18 Posted : 1/6/2016 5:04:53 PM

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lol.
great stuff guys.

one of the main reasons i post stuff in my old age,
is to give you guys tips from experience,
so you can avoid my mistakes, and save time.
it also enhances safety.

steppa is right, it will knock you down.

but fear not,
its ususally a freindly warm and fuzzy kind of buzz.
and even if it gets weird, your probably too wasted to move , and harmless.

go easy and work yourself up to it.
i have a tendency to be a gonzo crash test dummy about cannabis.
"loph girl incarnate / lab rabbits included"
kids dont try anything annie does at home ,
for for scientific / educational review only.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#19 Posted : 1/12/2016 2:06:47 PM
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Thanks everybody, great responses, I appreciate your input Anne, you would be surprised how rare it is to find experienced hash-eaters, and I'm not talking about edibles or brownies, actual hash eating, hard to come by...

I have a plant that I'm going to dedicate to hash for eating, I'm also going to buy several extracts from the store to experiment with...

I've been making "hand-charas" from some plants that hermaphrodited, these plants are full of useable resin, but are not fit for sensimilla. So, I select some good buds, remove the larger leaf by hand, and then begin to lightly rub the bud around in my palms of my hands, very little to no pressure involved, after time and a good deal of plant matter, your hands will have a layer of light brown resin covering them, which is removed by pressing a formed chunk of resin on your thumb against the resin on your Palm, removing it in chunks forming a ball of "hand-charas", you may also slide a hot knife across the palms removing the Hand-charas.
This technique is used in India and the Himalaya region, and differs from the techniques used in Africa and the middle east which extract their hash from dead/dry plant matter.
( there's a method where the live plant is pressed between parchment paper with a heated surface which presses out the oils, which then stick to the parchment paper, you then remove the charas from the parchment paper...I prefer hand-charas though...)

...since this hand-charas is derived from live plants, would decarboxylation be necessary to obtain an edible product from it?

Again, thank you for all your responses, any further information regarding hash eating would be much appreciated.

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#20 Posted : 1/20/2016 5:58:47 PM
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Full ludlow book "the hasheesh eater" in link below


http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Ludlow/THE/

...

Below are a few excerpts from the hasheesh eater, these are some of my favorite and most relatable passages from the first part of this book, I read things like this with fond nostalgia, it reminds me of times when I could achieve similar "ordeals" from cannabis, I have not gotten more than a ++ (shulgin scale) from cannabis for quite some time, and seeing as how cannabis is legal and available at a mass of retail locations (and medical centers which I have a medical license to shop at) in my area this has always puzzled me, I'm sure tolerance is a big factor here as well, but experience also may have diminished the novelty and mystery of the cannabis exoeriance...

I know +++ experiences are still possible with cannabis and hashish, they have just become increasingly rare. I obtain several essential benefits from daily cannabis use, enough so that an extended ceaseation of use seems hardly justified, so consumption of high dose cannabis extract seems to be the solution, it's not an incredibly efficient venture, I will have to consume an amount of extract that would last quite a while if smoked, so it's not something I'm in a hurry to do as I appreciate smoking extract, but I will get around to it soon.

Anyway, here are the excerpts from the first chapter of Mr. Ludlow's classic "the hasheesh eater":

...

Ha! what means this sudden thrill? A shock, as of some unimagined vital force, shoots without warning through my entire frame, leaping to my fingers' ends, piercing my brain, startling me till I almost spring from my chair.

I could not doubt it. I was in the power of the hasheesh influence. My first emotion was one of uncontrollable terror -- a sense of getting something which I had not bargained for. That moment I would have given all I had or hoped to have to be as I was three hours before.

...

I could not doubt it. I was in the power of the hasheesh influence. My first emotion was one of uncontrollable terror -- a sense of getting something which I had not bargained for. That moment I would have given all I had or hoped to have to be as I was three hours before

...

Perhaps I was acting strangely. Suddenly a pair of busy hands, which had been running neck and neck all the evening with a nimble little crochet- needle over a race-ground of pink and blue silk, stopped at their goal, and their owner looked at me steadfastly. Ah! I was found out -- I had betrayed myself. In terror I waited, expecting every instant to hear the word "hasheesh." No, the lady only asked me some question connected with the previous conversation. As mechanically as an automaton I began to reply. As I heard once more the alien and unreal tones of my own voice, I became convinced that it was some one else who spoke, and in another world. I sat and listened; still the voice kept speaking. Now for the first time I experienced that vast change which hasheesh makes in all measurements of time. The first word of the reply occupied a period sufficient for the action of a drama; the last left me in complete ignorance of any point far enough back in the past to date the commencement of the sentence. Its enunciation might have occupied years. I was not in the same life which had held me when I heard it begun.

...

Oh! I could not bear it. I should soon be left alone in the midst of an infinity of space. And now more and more every moment increased the conviction that I was watched. I did not know then, as I learned afterward, that suspicion of all earthly things and persons was the characteristic of the hasheesh delirium

...

In the midst of my complicated hallucination, I could perceive that I had a dual existence. One portion of me was whirled unresistingly along the track of this tremendous experience, the other sat looking down from a height upon its double, observing, reasoning, and serenely weighing all the phenomena. This calmer being suffered with the other by sympathy, but did not lose its self-possession. Presently it warned me that I must go home, lest the growing effect of the hasheesh should incite me to some act which might frighten my friends. I acknowledged the force of this remark very much as if it had been made by another person, and rose to take my leave. I advanced toward the centre-table. With every step its distance increased. I nerved myself for a long pedestrian journey. Still the lights, the faces, the furniture receded. At last, almost unconsciously, I reached them. It would be tedious to attempt to convey the idea of the time which my leave-taking consumed, and the attempt, at least with all minds that have not passed through the same experience, would be as impossible as tedious. At last I was in the street.

...

Before long I walked in entire unconsciousness of all around me. I dwelt in a marvelous inner world. I existed by turns in different places and various states of being. Now I swept my gondola through the moonlit lagoons of Venice. Now Alp on Alp towered above my view, and the glory of the coming sun flashed purple light upon the topmost icy pinnacle. Now in the primeval silence of some unexplored tropical forest I spread my feathery leaves, a giant fern, and swayed and nodded in the spice-gales over a river whose waves at once sent up clouds of music and perfume. My soul changed to a vegetable essence, thrilled with a strange and unimagined ecstasy. The palace of Al Haroun could not have brought me back to humanity.

...

I will not detail all the transmutations of that walk. Ever and anon I returned from my dreams into consciousness, as some well-known house seemed to leap out into my path, awaking me with a shock. The whole way homeward was a series of such awakings and relapses into abstraction and delirium until I reached the corner of the street in which I lived.

...

Through the excitement of my struggle with this phantasm the effects of the hasheesh had increased mightily. I was bursting with an uncontrollable life; I strode with the thews of a giant. Hotter and faster came my breath; I seemed to pant like some tremendous engine. An electric energy whirled me resistlessly onward; I feared for myself lest it should burst its fleshly walls, and glance on, leaving a wrecked frame-work behind it.

...

which I had determined to hold inviolable. My sensations began to be terrific -- not from any pain that I felt, but from the tremendous mystery of all around me and within me. By an appalling introversion, all the operations of vitality which, in our ordinary state, go on unconsciously, came vividly into my experience. Through every thinnest corporeal tissue and minutest vein I could trace the circulation of the blood along each inch of its progress. I knew when every valve opened and when it shut; every sense was preternaturally awakened; the room was full of a great glory. The beating of my heart was so clearly audible that I wondered to find it unnoticed by those who were sitting by my side. Lo, now, that heart became a great fountain, whose jet played upward with loud vibrations, and, striking upon the roof of my skull as on a gigantic dome, fell back with a splash and echo into its reservoir. Faster and faster came the pulsations, until at last I heard them no more, and the stream became one continuously pouring flood, whose roar resounded through all my frame. I gave myself up for lost, since judgment, which still sat unimpaired above my perverted senses, argued that congestion must take place in a few moments, and close the drama with my death. But my clutch would not yet relax from hope. The thought struck me, Might not this rapidity of circulation be, after all, imaginary? I determined to find out.


Going to my own room, I took out my watch, and placed my hand upon my heart. The very effort which I made to ascertain the reality gradually brought perception back to its natural state. In the intensity of my observations, I began to perceive that the circulation was not as rapid as I had thought. From a pulseless flow it gradually came to be apprehended as a hurrying succession of intense throbs, then less swift and less intense, till finally, on comparing it with the second-hand, I found that about 90 a minute was its average rapidity. Greatly comforted, I desisted from the experiment. Almost instantly the hallucination returned. Again I dreaded apoplexy, congestion, hemorrhage, a multiplicity of nameless deaths, and drew my picture as I might be found on the morrow, stark and cold, by those whose agony would be redoubled by the mystery of my end. I reasoned with myself; I bathed my forehead -- it did no good. There was one resource left:I would go to a physician.

With this resolve, I left my room and went to the head of the staircase. The family had all retired for the night, and the gas was turned off from the burner in the hall below. I looked down the stairs: the depth was fathomless; it was a journey of years to reach the bottom! The dim light of the sky shone through the narrow panes at the sides of the front door, and seemed a demon-lamp in the middle darkness of the abyss. I never could get down! I sat me down despairingly upon the topmost step.

Suddenly a sublime thought possessed me. If the distance is infinite, I am immortal. It shall be tried. I commenced the descent, wearily, wearily down through my league-long, year-long journey. To record my impressions in that journey would be to repeat what I have said of the time of hasheesh. Now stopping to rest as a traveler would turn aside at a wayside inn, now toiling down through the lonely darkness, I came by-and-by to the end, and passed out into the street


...

reaching the porch of the physician's house, I rang the bell, but immediately forgot whom to ask for. No wonder; I was on the steps of a palace in Milan -- no (and I laughed at myself for the blunder), I was on the staircase of the Tower of London. So I should not be puzzled through my ignorance of Italian. But whom to ask for? This question recalled me to the real bearings of the place, but did not suggest its requisite answer. Whom shall I ask for? I began setting the most cunning traps of hypothesis to catch the solution of the difficulty. I looked at the surrounding houses; of whom had I been accustomed to think as living next door to them? This did not bring it. Whose daughter had I seen going to school from this house but the very day before? Her name was Julia -- Julia -- and I thought of every combination which had been made with this name from Julia Domna down to Giulia Grisi. Ah! now I had it -- Julia H.; and her father naturally bore the same name. During this intellectual rummage I had rung the bell half a dozen times, under the impression that I was kept waiting a small eternity. When the servant opened the door she panted as if she had run for her life. I was shown up stairs to Dr. H.'s room, where he had thrown himself down to rest after a tedious operation. Locking the door after me with an air of determined secrecy, which must have conveyed to him pleasant little suggestions of a design upon his life, I approached his bedside.

"I am about to reveal to you," I commenced, "something which I would not for my life allow to come into other ears. Do you pledge me your eternal silence?"

"I do; what is the matter?"

"I have been taking hasheesh -- Cannabis Indica, and I fear that I am going to die."


http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Ludlow/THE/

...

-eg
 
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