Maybe not the best forum, but is the only one I am able to post in for now. Since trying DMT for the first time and experiencing ego death for the first time as well it has given my a real understanding and affirmation of my Christian beliefs which I had become distant to. I will start by explaining my fall out with God, it occurred after the suicide of my brother, after a long hard battle with mental illness. I was angry at God, not that my brother had chosen to end his own life but that he had to suffer so much before making that decision, yet I still believed in God, and could not un-believe in him even though at times I wanted to. Since experiencing ego death I have come to realise everything that I was angry at God for was nonsensical as it had no meaning. I have since gone to church twice, (the pastor has two PhD's so is very interesting) and have found the whole experience very spiritual. I can fully grasp the idea of the trilogy, it makes perfect sense to me and have always been a universalist and that really resonates with me now to be a truth that I belief to be real.
Any thoughts and realisations from any other Christians experiencing this is greatly appreciated!

I actually attend a Christian University right now, studying Biology, and previously went to community college. I grew up in a family that never forced me into religion, and attended a Methodist church. I lost faith in God, became an atheist, then an agnostic, then found strong psychedelics like DMT and others in highschool/college, then became what I am now. What I am now is a mixture of a lot of things I suppose (pantheism/eastern philosophy/dmt-revelations), but acknowledging what Unitarian Universalism would say regarding all religions being equally valid, various expressions of human finding divine.

In a roundabout way I am trying to say that - yes- I do think theology is very interesting now, attending this university where I've taken a number of courses on it, and seeing it from a renewed perspective after trying psychedelics for a few years. I still have my qualms I suppose with a number of aspects of Christianity and the way certain people interpret Scripture, but I don't feel the need to detail them at the moment.
I think there's something to be gained from a mature understanding of the Christian perspective.
I resonate most with the aspects of God's divine love, forgiveness and I find it interesting thinking about the Trinity.

Thanks for your reply, I totally agree with you that I have problems with humans imposing their own ideas upon religion. Yet the true essence of Christianity, and all religion for that matter I find really, really intriguing and spiritual. Buddhism is really cool, especially knowing what zen means now and having experienced that. My partner comes from a buddhist background and has rekindled that relationship since experiencing DMT.

I grew up in a quasi-Christian household and ended up falling out with the entire institution or organized religion after being pretty severely traumatized by the teachings as a very young child (crippling congential OCD probably didn't help, but I still say that threatening children with Hell is child abuse).

I went through a pretty heavy nihilism phase as a teen, but after beginning to work with psychedelics, I've found my relationship to the spiritual softening. I will probably never be a 'Christian' again (too many strong claims, not enough evidence), but I feel like I understand more what it is that a lot of religious people get out of their faith, and I see the value in it. I no longer think of religion as evil, just complicated, and there are parts of Christianity (and Buddhism, and Islam) that I've come to appreciate.

As for what I actually believe, I think Spinoza hit the nail pretty much right on the head

Blessings
~ND

This is word-for-word what I would have wrote. Just replace quasi-Christian with quasi-Muslim, and that that's me in a nutshell.

Pretty cool how different origins resulted in the same result. Like convergent evolution.

DMT definitely primes you to have more open beliefs, regardless of your current standing or faith.

A few years ago, I would have considered myself an Apatheist. I despised religion in general. I found it to be a moronic anchor on humanity that was holding back human progression. But then came DMT, which you can try to explain with all rationale and still come up short.

You can try to understand it with science, that it is simply your brain being confused by this rush of an unbelonging tryptamine, you can apply theories of other dimensions and DMT being the 'bridge' between worlds. You can apply your religious dogma, your theology or beliefs to it, understanding that it somehow brings you closer to your god or deity.

But no explanation truly explains the experience. Until we fully understand consciousness I'm afraid that we'll have no legitimate answers.

But to directly answer the OP's post, experiencing DMT took me from being a religious hating, bigoted Apatheist/Atheist to being somewhat agnostic. I WANT to believe, but the lack of evidence to support the theory of any of the common religions just doesn't allow me to.

Never had a good relationship with theology as a study matter.
The roots are always simple but then comes the packing, the aftermaths, the corrections, interpretations, the books, the more books ... never ending story.
Now, I feel a mere free from doctrines, except for my own probably.

But then this 1 particular aya ceremony, after all 3 cups hitting at once, I felt God's grace and it blew me to smithereens.
I said then on the spot: "Oh no don't gonna tell me it is true after all, this cant be real" but it was.
Then this was no doctrine, just a touch and it's experience, that's all, no full libraries or prophets jimmer jammer.
No, a touch (by lack of finding suitable words) it was.

This experience never repeated as such (5 years back now), but there is no need for.
I felt soooo loved and felt so much compassion/understanding that I'm overfilled for life.
So yes, the molecules closed a gap with the mystery for me.

Now that was something different from:
You're not trying hard enough to be good enough.
A lot theologies head this way.

IMHO if a religion tries to "mold" you, it has an agenda for it. In the best case such agenda might be well meant in certain contexts of place and time, but still an agenda, no "touch".

Thank you for all the replies I have enjoyed reading them! It certainly makes for a interesting topic.


You have put that so very well.


An interesting point which I have been thinking, could DMT show us a our true consciousness? I asked that pastor/theologian I was talking about about heaven and if we would be 'more' than we are now because we are governed by laws, like gravity, would the same apply to our minds as we are limited by it biologically? Which he replied; 'oh yes many scientists and theologians belief that we would have much greater reasoning in an afterlife, even being capable of telepathy. Those things though aren't things we don't already possess, only we will be able to harness them. Although this is just speculation in the end.'


I feel the same way, a touch that I cannot explain, yet I see it in the complexity of the world.

I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic high school where I studied philosophy, theology and comparative religion.

When I first started researching psychedelics I read Alan Watts and Huxley and all that. My mind was fertile ground for Theism. Before I took lsd for the first time I was an Atheist. Afterwards I was something more like a Pantheist (everything is god). I followed this line of thought for a few years, reading more books on spirituality, psychedelics and consciousness in general.

I went o university and got a bachelor's and minored in religious study. Taking various psychedelics throughout the whole time. I had all kinds of experiences, from blissful ego death merging with the universe to nightmares of loosing my sanity and everything in between. Communion with friends and family at raves, a home, on the beach. Meditative calm that lsted for hours where all the answers laid themselves in front of me. I believed in some kind of god being, a metaphysical intelligence we were existing in. Like the universe is the dream of some "thing".


After a while a begam studying Buddhism and practicing meditation. My worldview began to change. My trips began taking on more Buddhist qualities. Less focused on this metaphysical being and more grounded in nature amd my physical nature and how the mind operates and produces a sense of self.

So fast forward to a year ago, tried DMT for the first time and was crushed under the profundity and awe. I felt like the universe is weirded than I could grasp but the DMT flash felt more like a dream or a hallucination. It's obviously profound and humbling but it showed me that even the most realistic sensation could potentially false and that I shouldn't jump to conclusions about reality or god(s) or consciousness.

DMT specifically has made me a skeptic. I still have a sense of communion with nature amd awe and understand the ego is more a process than an individual thimg. My theology borders on Atheism and Pantheism (As Dawkins says "sexed up Atheism).

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on a previous thread of mine Sandgrease, as your beliefs at times seemed to verge with my own.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...aspx?g=posts&t=68547

Beautifully said.

Life, with all it's highs and lows has shaped my understanding of theology as much as DMT has.

were animals on a rock speeding thru space.
theology is pretense beyond that.

40 yrs with few limits on psychedelics.
yet im still trapped on a rock speeding thru space.
even if the planet was made of deems,
same story.

i try not to overthink it.

I would say definitely yes. I was raised Catholic but never force-Fed it. Gradually towards my adolescence however I abandoned those beliefs in favor of the "religion of science." Human and animal consciousness was purely a biological process, there were no such things as souls or an almighty omnipotent God, and once you died, that was it for you. However I've always harbored an inkling of a doubt in my beliefs (more than likely due to a profoundly terrifying experience that I can still remember from my early childhood, though I try to just chalk it up to an overactive imagination).

I've always enjoyed reading the mythologies of various religions throughout the world and throughout the ages though. The bible, the Torah, the vast pantheon of multitudes of polytheistic religions spanning the world; all were a source of equal delight and interest to me. Whether or not I regarded them as true, I appreciated it the way one would appreciate a good fantasy novel.

It wasn't until I blasted off the first time; I literally felt my soul being pulled from my body through a tunnel of white light, presumably heading to some sort of afterlife; that I began to question my beliefs. That and before I actually smoked dmt, I read almost every experience report on Ayuhuasca.net, and noticed a recurring them in like all of them; some manner of entity would appear to the traveler that called itself ayuhuasca and then proceeded to teach whatever lesson needed to be taught. This tripped me out. So now I can definitely say I believe in souls and spirits. The experience was just too real.

I probably won't ever believe in an omnipotent God figure watching everything I so behind the scenes, but I can't totally discount the existence of the supernatural any more. In starting to think maybe the Universe itself, in some ancient, primeval way might have it's own intelligence... If that makes any sense idk how else to explain it. I guess this line in one of my favorite Pat the Bunny songs says it best; "the Universe is chaos, but chaos plays favorites."

And I don't think I could ever belong to an organized religion.I am very much against a lot of them, the way people practice those religions is often obnoxious and sometimes dangerous. I dont see anything wrong with faith, faith unites people and makes them change for the better, but most religion just divides people and breeds unwarranted hatred. Of I had to pick the one I most relate with it would prolly be either Taoism or LeVeyan Satanism.

Imagine you lived your whole life inside a house with white walls. You would very much take these white walls for granted. They had been there with you since the beginning, and wherever you turned, whatever activity you engaged in, these walls remained, and they remained white. You would assume that they are part of "you", and soon you would barely even notice them.

One day, you take DMT, or another strong psychedelic, and, suddenly, the walls change their colour. You haven't changed, you remained the same; but the walls have changed their colour. And perhaps their shape. Suddenly, you realise that the walls are not part of you. That they are different from you. For the first time, in your entire life, you witness something very strange: you are the same you've always been, but the walls have now transformed beyond recognition.
And thus, the true nature of mind and of all things is revealed: emptiness.

Meanwhile, theology plays 3 roles. The first is to supply affective and logical methods for adjusting to the difficulties in your life in a practical fashion: be calm, compassionate, and turn the other cheek; develop your power to concentrate; pray when you are struggling; and so on. The second role follows from this. These methods of adjustment require that you revise your assumptions about other people, the events in your life and the cosmos; therefore this revision changes your premises, it changes your mind, and in doing so, it reveals the mind to you. This was the second role. The third role is to cultivate disinterest in the mind: desire, greed, attachment, materialistic pursuits are declared sins and therefore bad; there is something beyond the world worth pursuing, called Heaven or Nirvana and, by comparison, worldly pursuits are a waste of effort; ascetic fervour is praised; and so on.

The first role is an incentive. The second and third roles deliver an effect similar to psychedelics in the first scenario. It is, therefore, not surprising that psychedelics can change someone's understanding of theology; and that theology can change someone's understanding of psychedelics.

But in the end, no real progress can be made unless one's "karma" has completely exhausted. Until then, the ego will stand tall, relentlessly engaging the winds of destiny with its volition. And perhaps focusing some of its energy, apologetically, on the study of theology. Incidentally, Bodhidharma declared that the Highest of all Truths is: "Emptiness, without holiness."

Imagine you escaped from a sinking ship, and now you are on a life boat. You are stuck at sea. On the life boat, you find a book with instructions for survival: how to organise your food supply; how to deal with getting bored; what to do if there's a storm; and so on. This book is what the sages of the past have passed on. It will help you survive the journey, but it will not help you to reach the continent faster. That depends on the ocean's currents alone; there is nothing you can do about that.

The "karma" is "exhausted" when any interest in worldly pursuits has genuinely, and irreversibly been abandoned. You see, the Original Sin left us with knowledge about what things are good and what things are bad, and thereby it left us with the desire to pursue them; volition is, in fact, the hallmark of karma, and as such it uses the mind. But, what is the one thing that can be attained, which does not involve the mind? The ocean's currents alone determine when the answer to this genuinely and irreversibly arrives.

The task, therefore, is to focus just on surviving the journey. The self-defeating mistake is to be idle. Do engage; do struggle; don't avoid the problems. Don't ignore the projects that come your way, or "God's plan" as it were. Because if you interrupt the unfolding of your karma, then you will also delay its exhaustion.

I'm a big time spiritual kinda guy but DMT blew that outta the water and now I'm more humbled to the fact that we THINK we 'know' what spirituality is about when in fact we don't know SQUAT .....
Then we have all the religions who claim they are the one and only 'truth' when in fact hardly any of them even know experience wise, what a spiritual experience is and just how deep and real they can be, mostly on DMT or also with other high doses of entheogens ..
Yeah, I thought I knew what sprituality was, I really did, even past my LSD, Mushrooms and LSA excursions, I thought I knew what the 'ancients' had learned ..
Then, here come the 'DMT Elves', smiling that mischievous but harmless grin, with their intricate indescribable 'machines' or whatever they are .... and the 'doctor spirits' who held my wrist while taking my pulse and told me " You can't go any further or you may not get back ok? "
Yeah... and it all being [[ OR convincingly enough SEEMING to be real ]] very real?
What else can leave one scratching their heads wondering " What was all THAT about? " while at the same time Smiling like the Cheshire Cat on Steroids?
Yeah ... DMT has added the 'Mystery', depth and volumes upon volumes, to the whole 'entity' catalog which for me amounts to 'what' holds everything together in the Universe, that being: LOVE
I can't even put it into words but hey I tried ...Words can do it no justice..
I'm sure we can all agree that trying to explain our individual experiences on DMT or other high doses of shrooms or cacti or whatever.... is like trying to describe the color Blue to a man who was born blind ... the only way for someone to find out what we are trying to share is for them to try it themselves.
I could see the ancients, in the past long ago, one day strolling along, hungry like mad, willing to eat ANYTHING edible, they chow down on some plant or bush, with some mushrooms with it or whatever, and next thing they know? They are seeing 'God' ! They come out of it not even realizing at first what just happened and even if they do, they usually then treated said plants, bush or mushrooms, as 'sacred' from then on and to finish my steaming ahead train of thought, they came up with some new 'Belief System' as a direct result...
So, which came first 'religion' or Entheogens?
Who reached out to who first?
These are the kind of questions that can keep me going in circles forever and I truly think we can't reach beyond our ability to grasp things ..so, with that said, sometimes it's a good thing to just ENJOY something for the wonderful enigma that it is instead of complicating it by trying to figure out some 'thing' that is bigger than we ever were

Oh, and, I really think DMT and spirituality not only fit like a hand in glove but that since Our Pineal Gland makes it too, out of melatonin or serotinin ...
Seeing as EVERY creature has trace amounts of it in their bodies ...
If we were to go with the belief of everything being 'Created' by a superior intelligence, I can understand why both the pineal gland was 'given' to 'mankind' and why DMT, as a tool for 'contact' was placed in virtually EVERY living thing on the planet - [[ Which is also the 'Third Eye', complete with rods and cones .. in fact, all it needs to be a regular eye is a Lense ! I take it that its the 'spiritual eye' ''Pineal Gland Our Third Eye: The Biggest cover-up in human history: http://www.mysticbanana....up-in-human-history.html Yes! The Pineal Gland IS a Replica of an Eye, Complete with Retina – the ‘Third Eye’, So Long in the Realms of Philosophy and Magic, Now Yields to Science – Meant to Blow Your Mind! http://beforeitsnews.com...w-your-away-2667574.html ]]
And it is the SAFEST molecule too? I can't think of anything other that can literally shatter belief paradigms while being completely non-toxic at the same time !

Here is something interesting for you concerning the pineal gland or 'dmt' and the links they have in 'Spirituality' :
"But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
The man asked him, “What is your name?”
"Jacob,” he answered.
Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
So Jacob called the place Peniel saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.” Gen 32:24-31 [[ 'Peniel' is similar to 'Pineal' isn't it? And especially after 'Jacob' wrestled with an 'angel' or 'God'? Interesting 'connection I think ]]
Then there is the 'Lamp of the Body" : "Your eye is a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is good, your whole body is filled with light. But when it is bad, your body is filled with darkness " Luke 11:34 Notice the use of the SINGULAR word 'Eye' instead of the plural - Could this also refer to 'pollutants' and how they effect the mind ie., 'The Pineal Gland'? by 'darkening' it?
One major contributor to the calcification, hence, the 'dulling' of the pineal gland is 'Fluoride' , which is the biggest culprit and is put in the public drinking water supply ! It's also given to KIDS for the 'protection' of their Teeth ! It's been long noted that Fluoride is actually not only unnecessary but is actually a POISON that effects the whole body, not just the mind
Here are some informative links ..If one were to theologically believe in the powers of 'good' and 'evil', that one could surmise with seemingly reliable proof, that there IS a darkside' that is trying to SNUFF OUT the spirituality of mankind by shutting down our 'spiritual eye' - But, hey, thats just a thought - heres some info : "How To Reverse Fluoride Damage to Your Pineal Gland" http://12160.info/forum/...age-to-your-pineal-gland

locojuiceman, the links you added are really crappy sources and so are the images....

Hey JDSalinger,

I have had my old, childish, traditional beliefs reaffirmed, partly duo to my use of DMT.

I was raised in Eastern Orthodox Christianity tradition. However, as my puberty progressed, I almost completely let go of it. I did drugs, had premarital sex and lived my life, and I was simply not interested in a religion back at that time. When I hit my early 20th, I experienced a spiritual awakening, catalyzed by a very strong case of unrequited love which really broke my heart. An unforeseen, but welcome consequence of that failed romance was that I became very interested in all kinds of spiritual matters.

I have tried many different things - from lucid dreaming and new age aliens channelers to occultism and shamanism. And then I found dmt-nexus and DMT, which contained the key to what I was looking for. With DMT at my disposal I finally got that magic portal to a parallel universe, also known as Hyperspace. I learned how to communicate with the spirits there, even when completely sober, and became a real shaman, or so I thought.

However, at some point I realized that all those spirits are up to no good, and are basically demons in disguise, even though many of them pretended to be my guides/angels. And it turned out that I, unknowingly to myself, had been working with/for the devil all that time. I had three options after that terrible realization: stick my head in the sand and go on with my life as if I didn't know the truth, work for the devil (without telling about it to anybody, of course) or abandon all of my occult, shamanistic and DMT practices and return to God.

I chose the third option. Now I am a devoted Eastern Orthodox Christian, aiming to become a priest.

Greetings,
AstraLex.